Me Again - forgive my repetitiveness but I need help...

[Mattsmummy]

DS is 15 months old and for the most part is sleeping pretty well at night. He either sttn or has one or two NW which tend to be quick hitters...

He is teething molars right now. The problem lies with the EW. He is a chronic early waker. Anywhere from 445 - 530am.  I know he is VERY OT and I don't know how to help him...

His routine is sort of like this

WU - 445-530 - I will get him up out of the crib and sit with him in the rocking chair to APOP him to get him more sleep
A - 6 - 1230 when he takes a nap at daycare.  His naps range from 45 minutes (bad day) to 1hr 45 min (good day)
BT - ranges between 7pm and 8pm by the time he is actually asleep...I have been doing GW with him while teething b/c he would freak out if I left the room.  He falls asleep on his own in the crib, I sit quietly on a chair in his room. I don't speak unless he is getting really upset and then I use our phrase.

I know I've become a prop in them morning and am reinforcing the EW by having a lovely cuddle in the rocking chair...
How do I fix this?  All I want is a steady 6am WU...

MY DH is no help.  He thinks EBT's are ridiculous and that DS will "let us know" when he's tired (no, i'm serious! ) - I've tried to reason it to him but he doesn't get it. Also, he will not let him cry (mantra) in the morning (he works shifts so sometimes it's not even an option) so I'm a prisoner in DS's room keeping him quiet until it's time to get up...   

I know he needs more sleep and an EBT is likely my best bet to do this. If I could get him 11 or 12 hours through the night, then I could gradually push the day out right? to get him to a later WU?  How do I deal with DH being so ridiculous himself? I suppose I could do it when he's on night shift and not home???

[*Becky*]

First off I am really sorry DH is not being supportive. That in itself must be very hard. You are right, DS must be way OT and an early BT is the first thing I would suggest.
Are there any days when DH could be a bit more on board in the am? I do think that if he is only mantra crying you should DEF leave him. DD has been a chronic EW'er since forever but I do leave her if she wakes before about 5.45/6am unless she is very upset which tbh she is not. If he thinks he is going to get a cuddle with mummy then there is really no incentive to go back to sleep.
I think if you could get a few days straight of trying it your way i.e. not going in in the am and doing an earlier BT DH might hopefully see that things improve.

Is there nothing you can do about the nap at daycare?

[*Becky*]

oh...and re the teething. That has made both mine EW...
Have you tried a df meds around 3am?

[Mattsmummy]

Thanks for responding!

No, there really isn't anything I can do about daycare nap times...
I think I'm going to try this week as DH is on night shift Wed/Thurs so I can do EBT Wednesday night, and then leave him Thursday morning if he is mantra crying.
I might even try and leave work early to get home for shortly before 5.  BT as soon as I can after dinner but hopefully before 6pm.

What do I do if (and when) he gets very upset about me not going in in the morning?

[Mattsmummy]

Sorry, no, I haven't tried meds at about 3am.  I would need to pick him up as he is a belly sleeper and there is no way I'd get the dropper in his mouth without lifting him up.  Do I then just cuddle him a bit to settle back down and then PD and WO?

[*Becky*]

hmm, well that is a bit more tricky. I think it depends on how deep a sleeper he is. I know some lo's could be lifted slightly, the syringe popped in and all done very quickly but others like my M would be awake so that is your call really.
You could try some meds when he wakes at 4.45am...that is an option seeing as it is a proper EW and he is clearly still tired.

As for what to do when he cries....if it is a proper 'I need you' cry then go to him but try to keep him in the cot. Maybe put your hand on his back or stroke his head rather than getting him up. I am sure he will not like it but consistency is key here.

If he is mantra crying or moaning leave him...he needs to learnt to self settle when he comes into the light sleep phase. Some lo's find that much harder than others and unfortunately EWing becomes habitual very easily and very quickly.

[Mattsmummy]

Okay, I'll try the dream meds tonight. Around 330 or 345 you think? I might be able to roll him over without too much disruption.

What BT should I aim for then?
How quickly can I start WD after dinner? I'm always a little worried about rushing BT after he's just eaten.
Would GW work for the EW? If I went in, kept him in the crib, but stayed beside him on the chair or even if I laid down on the floor beside him?  He likely won't sleep if he's not in the chair with me so I will be facing even more OT so I guess just put the pedal down and hope for the best?

[*Becky*]

I would do meds around 3am.
With BT I would probably aim for 6pm if you can manage it. Re the wind down, I would just start after tea. I often do this so we do a bath, then into p-jams and milk and books before bed.
I think GW is probably your best option atm for the EWings.....if he has been used to you sitting with him then WIWO is probably a bit much for him to handle. I would lay down next to the crib or sit in the chair.
Good luck!

[Mattsmummy]

Thanks so much.  I will aim for WD to start after dinner and aim for a 6ish BT.  I'm thinking GW is likely my best option at this point as well.  I will try that and aim to keep him in his crib and hopefully start to have him stay quiet if not sleep~

I will let you know how tonight and tomorrow morning go if that's okay and if you don't mind helping me tweak as I go?

[*Becky*]

how did you get on?

[Mattsmummy]

Well, he was asleep at around 6:50pm.
He and I both have a terrible cough and cold so he spent a good deal of time coughing before he fell asleep.  We have the vapourizer on so I imagine it would have been worse without it.
He had a NW at 1:20am.  I gave him some meds for his teeth and calmed him down. I put him back into his crib and sat down and tried to wait him out.  He coughed and was unsettled (not crying) just unsettled until 3:15am when I picked him up and sat him upright on my lap.
At this point the coughing subsided and he fell back into a deep sleep.  I put him back into his crib at about 3:45am.
He stirred at 5am but I waited him out and he went back to sleep until 5:40 am when he was really crying.

I went in, and laid down on the floor beside the crib.  He cried for about 1 minute and then laid down.  He was wide awake and chatting away. I left him there to entertain himself.
After a while I felt somthing hit my head.  It was his stuffed teddy. Then I heard "uh-oh", then the stuffed dog hit me and another "uh-oh"...
At this point, I thought well, time to get up. It was 6:00 am on the dot...

He was fine for a little while and then got really cranky this morning. I know he is tired b/c he slept so poorly with the coughing...

Think I jinxed myself yesterday saying the NW were all quick ones

Hoping to get him an even earlier bt tonight. Any thoughts on anythign for the cough?

[Maxdrewe]

We have suffered the EW and nasty coughs here, they are exhausting. We elevate the cot end, use a humidifier and have tried the trick of Vicks on his feet!! The cot and humidifier work best, if you don't have one put a damp flannel on the radiator or a small bowl of water in the room. Not magic solutions but they do help. Sending hugs

[*Becky*]

yes agree with PP. IMO coughs are the worst for disrupting sleep. We do karvol vapour rub on the feet, elevated mattress and karvol plug ins.
I think you will have to play it by ear if he is sick as it is really hard getting on a decent routine. DS always woke early with a cough.

[Mattsmummy]

okay, thanks for the replies.

Last night went like this
in crib at 6:40 pm asleep by 7:05pm
NW at 3:00am - gave meds for teeth, sip of water for cough and cuddle. Wouldn't go back into crib - cried and coughed when I tried. Ended up sitting with him till almost 4 when able to put him into his crib.
Awake at 5:05am - again tried to PD, rub back and even laid down next to crib and he just screamed and coughed...
Ended up rocking him back to sleep until 6:45am...we both fell asleep - I'm sick with this cold too...

I know it's a step backwards but I didn't have the energy to go with GW this morning.

So, his night was approximately 10hrs 40 mins give or take...

He was VERY cranky and cligy this morning.

When I do decide to go with the GW, likely tonight if DS is feeling better tonight, should I stay in the chair as that's where I sit at the beginning of the night? He seems to get more upset if I'm lying next to the crib - I think b/c I'm so close??

If/When he really gets upset, do I pick him up and settle or just say sleepy phrase and PD? He pops right back up...

Thanks for your help with this!

[*Becky*]

or just say sleepy phrase and PD?

I would do this...as little contact as possible tbh. It is a bit different if he is sick but once he is ok I would stop cuddling him in the MOTN. Sounds harsh but he needs to learn to self soothe and put himself back to sleep, at the moment he seems reliant on you to do that for him.