Query about W2S

[My little Liam]

Did w2s last night at 2215 and he woke at 0025 instead of 2315. I BF for one min and he went back to sleep.
Did I do it ok? Is it normal that he woke an hour later? Should I do it again tonight at the same time?

[becj86]

It can take a week before you see progress with W2S - keep at it, same time, etc.

[My little Liam]

W2s did not work last night... I did it at the same time again, 2215 but he woke at 2315.
The night before when I did it he was in a deep sleep and then I brought him into a lighter sleep, but tonight when the time came for me to go to him I saw on the monitor that he was moving every few minutes so he was already in a light sleep. I think that is why it did not work. Bringing him into a light sleep restarts the sleep cycle and when I touched him tonight the cycle did not restart...
Should I only go in if he is in a deep sleep? If so, it may not always be at 2215. If he is in a light sleep at that time should I wait until he goes back into a deep sleep?

[My little Liam]

I would appreciate if someone could help me out with this. Thanks!

[Fiver]

As this thread ( BF at night) has moved away from a BF issue to questions about W2S, I'm going to move the sleep part of the thread over to the Night Wakings board.

[Erin M]

The idea is to reset the sleep cycle and bring him from deep sleep into light sleep, so I think that since he was already in a lighter stage of sleep, it wouldn't have worked as well. 

I just reread the first part of this post and I'm wondering if you need a routine tweak to help solve your waking issue -- could you post your daytime routine right now?

Thanks!

[My little Liam]

I have been working with the EASY board to fix our routine... I have been lengthening his A times to 3hr-3hr15 so I would say that our routine is not 100% there yet... We have been having night wakings, EW, and bad naps so that is what we are trying to fix.

These are the last few days:

W 0810
A 3hr15
S 1125-1225 1230-1330 resettled with BF
A 2hr55
S 1625-1655 fell asleep in car
A 2hr50
BT 1930 fell asleep 1945
NW 2330 W2S didn't work
NW 0230-0400 BF didn't help
EW 0600 BF

WU 0710 I woke him to start to get routine on track
A 3hr05
S 1015-1145 BF to sleep because was crying and OT
A 3hr10
S 1455-1615 BF to sleep like before
A 3hr25
BT 1940
NW 0000-0140 did W2S
EW 0600

W 0720
A 2hr30 extremely fussy and tired from bad night
S 0950- I hope it's a good nap and I didn't put him down too soon. He went down very easily.

I would like to add a few things:
We have tried A times of 2hr45 and 3hrs and get naps of 1hr10-20
With A times of 3hr15 I can get a 1hr30-2hr nap but I need to resettle with a Bf after an hour. I think it's because he is OT. He has taken long naps in the past.
He knows how to fall asleep independently
The OT is because of a family visit/transition to 2 naps.
The 3hr15 A times are I think only relevant if he sleeps 11.5hrs a night which he would get sleeping in after all the NW. Since I am now waking him around 7 each morning we are getting much less, usually around 10.5, and then he is in a horrible mood practically all day.
We have jumped A times fairly quickly so he is grumpy, rubbing his eyes, whining from the 2hr mark during every A but If I put him down earlier he fights sleep and will give me short naps.
He has a paci but I don't think it is a prop since he has slept 6 hour stretches after it has fallen out and it never really bothered him. He knows how to put it in his mouth during the day and if I hand it to him at night but he doesn't know how to look for it yet in his crib. The problem with the paci is that by the time I get to his room and hand it to him he is already wide awake and then he either starts crying because he wants to BF or it takes him 40 min to 1hr30 to fall back asleep.
To fall asleep I need to put a hand on his legs and chest because he likes to roll around and try to sit up in bed all the time and will not relax. If I leave him to fall asleep alone he will play in his crib until he is extremely OT and then he will cry and I will have to come to either put my hand on him or BF to sleep because of the OT.
The longest stretch he has ever slept at night is 8 hrs when he was around 4 months old.
I feel like he easily gets into habitual wakings. If he wakes once during a certain hour he will repeat it for days before it finally disappears. For example, he was waking around 0030-0100 every night but then last week I went in at 2330 to check on him before bed and he accidentally woke. Since then he wakes around 2330 instead of 0100. It is the same with 0600. He never woke at that time but a few days ago he woke at that time and the only way to get him to fall asleep was to BF so since then he wakes everyday at that time to BF which totally ruins our EASY. I used to do a DF but that also became habitual and he would wake every day at the exact  DF time.
Regarding teething, he started drooling and sucking his fingers around 2 months old but then it all stopped about a month ago. The last few days he is drooling and his fingers are constantly in his mouth again but there is no sign of a tooth or red puffy gums. I have tried giving him ibprofen to see if that is why he whines all the time but there was no difference so I don't really know if he is teething or not.

I have to say I am starting to go crazy! I am so tired and I am literally carrying him all day because he is so fussy and tired.
I would love for some help... I feel like I am practically getting no where!

[My little Liam]

So he just woke after 30 minutes!!! I know that is usually considered OT but for my LO it is also UT and I could not resettle... I find I always make this dumb mistake...
He is so tired I give in but it is just too early!

[My little Liam]

I just wanted to add that I put him down for his next nap after 2h45 A but I had to BF to sleep and we actually coslept since I was exhausted. He slept for 1h55 until 1500! I think I will put him to bed today at 1800 to catch up on some OT.
I don't really know what else to do. I feel kind of lost to tell you the truth....
I feel like there is no real progress... One day good, one day bad. One good nap, one bad nap. ALL BAD NIGHTS

[Erin M]

The 3hr15 A times are I think only relevant if he sleeps 11.5hrs a night which he would get sleeping in after all the NW. Since I am now waking him around 7 each morning we are getting much less, usually around 10.5, and then he is in a horrible mood practically all day.

Can you put him to bed earlier to compensate for the earlier wake ups?  Or are you waking him to shorten his night? 

So he just woke after 30 minutes!!!  I know that is usually considered OT but for my LO it is also UT and I could not resettle...

Yes, my ds did 30 minute UT naps all the time at that age too. 

If you're jumping A times quickly, it's really hard to find the balance between having enough A time and pushing it so quickly that you end up with an OT baby.  It takes them some time to get used to new A times, this might be right where you're at. 

[My little Liam]

I put him to bed last night at 1800 to try and catch up with OT but that didn't really work... He woke at 1835 and was awake until 1940. I am waking him in the morning because if I let him sleep in after all those wakings at night he will often sleep in until 0830 and then we have a short day and we can never get in 2 naps, the second naps has to be a CN. I am trying to get a more normal routine in place...

Anyways, this is me EASY from yesterday and last night:

WU 0720
A 2h30
S 0950-1020
A 2h45
S1305-1500 BF to sleep because he would not settle. We slept together and he slept for 2 hours.
A 3h
S 1800
NW 1835-1940
NW 0130 BF
EW 0415-0530 BF
WU 0715

So until he gets used to the new A times what do you recommend?

I do want to point out that he didn't wake at 2330. I didn't do w2s but there was some noise from the tv last night and I saw in the monitor that at 2140 he jumped and I guess went into a light sleep from something loud on the tv. So I don't know if the NW at 2330 didn't happen because the noise kind of did the w2s or he just didn't wake up...

Since he knows how to sleep independently do you think it would be bad if I continue to put him down after 3h15 A and if hi is OT to BF to sleep or to resettle just temporarily until he catches up? Is there anything better I could do?

[Erin M]

Since he knows how to sleep independently do you think it would be bad if I continue to put him down after 3h15 A and if hi is OT to BF to sleep or to resettle just temporarily until he catches up? Is there anything better I could do?

Is he one to let things become props quickly?  Some babies, once you do something, they expect it from that day on -- others, you can get away with doing things sometimes.  I would be more inclined to say that you should do whatever you need to in order to get some sleep into him at this point if he is so OT.  I can see where you're trying to get to with the routine -- I'm assuming you think the 9:50-10:20 nap was an UT one?

[My little Liam]

Yes I do think so.
Yesterday was horrible... The maid was so noisy during his naptimeandhe woke after 30 minutes for the first nap. The second was also interrupted because he had a playgroup. I put him to bed at 1800. He was so OT that he woke at 2030 and wouldn't fall back asleep until 2230. I am thinking some of the sleep problems are developmental because he is working on his crawling. He has been doing the army crawl for about 2 weeks but last night he crawled in his crib for 2 hours before going back to sleep. He was so tired but it was as if he just had to do it...
He then woke at 0230 to BF and then at 0520 but he resettled in 10 minutes and finally woke at 0630. So there was an EW but he fell back asleep almost immediately. I think the A time of 3h15 is about right and I just have to keep up with it for a few days until he is used to it.

[Erin M]

I think the A time of 3h15 is about right and I just have to keep up with it for a few days until he is used to it.

I think that's a good plan.  The developmental stuff does really mess with sleep for some LOs.