6.5month old just not sleeping

[Pili2]

I'm not a regular on this board, but I really hope someone has advice as I'm getting desperate. DS is 6.5 months and just not sleeping - day or night. He'll wake up every 30 minutes. As I'm posting this 6.30am Spanish time, he has been awake for 2.5 hours and is just drifting off.

He used to be a good sleeper up to about 3 months. Having nice long naps and going 5 hour streches at night. We then went on holiday with at in-laws and after that things have gone down hill. We have now hit rock bottom and it's so bad I don't even know where to start anymore. I don't have a routine to post as it has gone completely out the window.

He's tired 1 hour after getting up in the morning. I've been pushing it to two hours before putting him down for a nap, but it's a nightmare as he's just miserable all the time. Then he wakes up from his nap still tired and miserable. I've tried getting him back to sleep but it's not happening. 1.5 hours I've spend stroking his back, but nothing. He seems to be a sleep, but then starts stirring as soon as I take my hand away.

It has gotten worse since starting solids so I guess part of the problem could be related to that, or teething, or his cold or.......But this has been going on for so long that neither one of those options can be the whole explanation. He has a dummy, but that's not the reason either as he'll wake up with the dummy still in his mouth. It's not that he's too cold or warm as it doesn't make any difference how I dress him. He self settles when I first put him down. I just stroke his back till he's calm and leave.

Ideally I would like to get him on a routine that looks someting like this:

E 7.30am wake up and bottle (alarm goes off to get DD up for school)
E 8.30am breakfast (DD leaves for school with her dad and I have time)
A 9-10am
S 10am
E 12am lunch
A 12.30ish - 2pm
S 2pm
E 4pm small snack (he's refusing his afternoon bottle after starting solids so have a bit of yogurt or fruit)
A 4-6pm
6pm dinner
S 6.30pm (late catnap as I can't consistently get his to bed before 9pm)
A 7-8pm
E 8.30pm snack and bottle (he'll often only take a couple of oz of milk so he has a badtime snack of cereal or yogurt with fruit as well) I need to feed him at least 30 min before putting him in bed as he needs a poo before going to sleep. If not they'll just be an extra factor for him not sleeping.
S 9pm bedtime

I realize it's a later bedtime than ideal, but given the Spanish lifestyle we're often not home till late. Now the problem is, how do I get him to 10am before his first nap when he's tired 8.30am and how do I push second nap to 2pm when he wakes up still tired from the first? Another problem is getting him to nap when out. I'm lucky her dad normally pick up DD from school. but 2 days a week I have to go and there's no way around him having to nap in his buggy - but he won't. I have two buggies and a wrap, all with the same result.

Sorry this is so long, I was just trying to get as much info in there as possible as I'm completely lost and very very sleep deprived.   


 



 

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) - you must be really tired out   I hope we can make some suggestions that will help you out.

Your LO sounds very OT to me at the moment - 30 minute naps are a classic OT length, although discomfort can also be an issue.  What kind of solids is he on and when?  Does he have any medical issues e.g. reflux which could be causing him pain?

Looking at the ideal routine you posted I think there are a number of issues.  Firstly, the day is just too long with a 7.30am wake-up and 9pm bedtime.  Ideally you want to be aiming for a 12h day and 12h night - night sleep is far more restorative than naps and prolonging the day with a late catnap will lead to a build-up of tiredness.  If putting him to bed before 9pm isn't an option for you, could you let him sleep in longer in the morning and start your day at 9am?

Secondly, the A times are really a bit too short for a baby his age and should be up at around the 3h mark with two solid naps in the day. 

Could you aim for something like:
WU 9am
Nap 12.30-2pm
Nap 5-6.30pm
BT 9pm

I sympathise with the not sleeping out and about - my DD never will.  I think it's just the way some babies are, especially those who are very interested in what's going on around them.  I've not found a solution yet unfortunately....

Let me know what you think

[Pili2]

I would happily let him sleep longer in the morning. It would even make things easier with getting his sister ready for school and I could have a coffee in peace, but my alarm wakes him up and he won't go back to sleep when he senses activity in the house.

So far he's eating baby cereal fruit and veg. He has no problems I know off.

[jessmum46]

Hmmm that is really tricky, I'm sorry things have been tough for you.

Just looking back at your day again I only see two bottles, one of which is very small?  How many oz of milk is he taking in 24h?  That sounds like a very small amount - the vast majority of his nutrition should be coming from milk at this age with a minimum of 24oz per 24h.  If he is taking significantly less than that, I would strongly recommend you cut back on solids until he is taking a good amount of milk again.  The only reasons I know of for a baby to wake that frequently at night are pain (which you don't think is an issue) or hunger    OT won't help either, but I know it can be hard to work out routines around other things you have to do.

Could you make a special effort to be at home in the evenings for a few days and get him into bed closer to 7pm to give him a chance to catch up?

[Pili2]

This was based on him being off his milk for a couple of weeks. I have been putting milk in everythinghe has had though so he has been having his 20-25 oz in total. Today he has been back to normal milkwise and had three 7oz bottles again. Fingers crossed it'll be connected with sleep as well. I'm not holding my breath though as he has already been awake twice (even if he did self settle back to sleep the second time).   

I've been trying to take a week or so to deal with this for ages, but there always seem to be something. We have no help from anywhere and my husband works all hours so it's always down to me to take DD everywhere and obviously baby has to tuck along.

I've been trying to get him to take two good naps, but it's just not happening. The longest he has been down for for ages is an hour. I've put him to bed 8pm today, but tomorrow we'll be out till 9.30pm as there's a birthday party 7-9pm.

I'll try and continue to push it in the morning, but it's so hard when he's tired an hour after getting up.

[Pili2]

Make that three wakings already

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) hun, it's really hard being a Mum sometimes isn't it?  Sorry that you don't have much support around to give you a break either

Glad to hear that he is taking his milk a bit better for you now.  At least you know he's getting a good intake in the day so hunger shouldn't be a huge issue.  Could he be teething?  Have you tried medicating at bedtime?  Well done for getting him into bed a bit earlier tonight   Do remember OT is cumulative though and it will take several days of consistently early BTs before you see any significant improvements, so don't expect miracles in a day or two.

On the days where you HAVE to be out in the evening could you try:

WU 7.30
Nap 10.30-12
Nap 3-4.30
CN between 7 & 8
BT 9/9.30pm

It's a very long day and I wouldn't have thought LO could manage this on a regular basis without becoming even more OT but as a very occasional one-off it might work?

I know that it's really hard when you have other children to consider and there are events going on that you'd like to be at - believe me I have missed more things than I care to remember and I know how frustrating it can be.  Unfortunately though it's often the case that babies do best on a day that runs roughly from 7am-7pm or thereabouts and many Mums do find that their social life has to take a back seat in the best interests of helping their LO to sleep better.  It won't be forever - as LO gets older they can handle OT and days out of routine much better - but when you are all struggling from lack of sleep then sometimes you have to make some difficult decisions and make staying at home in the evenings a priority to help LO catch up.  (((Hugs))) again, we're all here to support you and help you both to get the rest you need and deserve x

[Pili2]

It's not my social life, it DD's! Spain just works on a difference schedule. The birthday tomorrow 7-9pm is a 5th birthday and it's completely normal. It's her best friend as well so we can't really not go. Last week she had a halloween party at school, another day home late. Monday and Wednesday are swimdays and we're not home till 7.15pm.

The thing about overtiredness is, how do I push him longer between naps already being OT? DO I just cross my fingers it'll eventually make him nap for longer.

[jessmum46]

Can you ever resettle him when he wakes early from a nap?  APOP if needed?

[Pili2]

Sometimes but not often. He is not crying when waking up, just kicking his legs and flapping his arms. He's a tummy sleeper (I've tried everything but he won't settle on his back) and when he doesn't want to sleep he just rolls over and spits the dummy out as soon as I move my hand.

Last night was slightly better with 'just' 8 wakings in total. He woke 5.30am and I tried to get him back to sleep till nearly 6, but by then he started to cry for his bottle so I fed him and he was back down 6.30-8. We're hitting the critical point now 10am as he wants to nap. I need to pop to the postoffice so will go now. That should keep him up till we get back. 

[jessmum46]

That's a lot of NWs - poor you   When are the wakings happening?  Mostly before midnight or after, or all through the night? 

Is he teething?
Do any of these symptoms ring a bell? (They may not) Reflux 101 - General reflux information

[Pili2]

I don't think it's reflux. He was a bit colicy (if that's a word) when he was younger, but not really anymore. He's also brings up very little or nothing after feeding compared to before. He might be a bit more gassy after starting solids, but the bad sleeping started before then.

He's waking all through the night, but on the best nights he sleeps better after midnight. I don't think teething is the problem.  He IS teething on and off, but I've tried giving him ibuprofen before bed and it didn't make any difference.     

I've managed to keep him awake for three hours this morning. He turned into a monster around 10am so I put him in his buggy and went to the post office (in torrential rain). Home about 10.45 and put him in his cot. He just passed out. Now fingers crossed he stays a sleep for a bit longer.

I think it's 'just' a case of OT and bad/lack of proper routine and my sleep deprived brain. When you're shattered and have a screaming monster it really is the easiest solution to pop him in bed so you can breath for half an hour.

[*Ali*]

How long would he nap if you put him back to sleep at 9am when he gets tired? Many babies like a short first A time and it may help the OT if a 12hr day isn't an option. A 10.5hr night isn't necessarily an issue if you can get some good naps into him in the day.

Would it be possible to let him catch up at the weekend when presumably the alarm for school isn't an issue?

Does he go to sleep independently at naps and BT or are you staying with him? Do you think the dummy could be a prop?

[skatty]

Hi I just wanted to say that when baby is that OT I think it is hard to do anything until they have caught up on sleep so if it were me I would put him down when he is tired in the morning and just let him sleep as much as he wants and the on evenings you have to be out out have you tried a sling? My dd seemed to get way less stimulated in the sling and he may even take a nap. When he is caught up on sleep it will be much easier to try and sort out a routine that suits you all 

[Pili2]

The thing is, if I put him down 9am he'll just sleep 30 min, wake up and still b tired then wanting to sleep again an hour later etc etc. It's what I've tried to do and it's not working. It just seems to re-inforce the 30 min naps.

He's so used to the same wakeup time he wakes 7.30 even without the alarm.

I guess the dummy is a prop, but it's not the entire explanation as he wakes up with his dummy still in his mouth.

I frequently use a wrap. It makes no difference to his sleep when out.

He was down for an hour this morning. Then just as I was getting my hopes up the phone woke him and I couldn't resettle.