Spirited baby resisting EASY

[JennLynn]

Thank you so much for the encouragement and kind words and help. I had a meltdown for sure yesterday lol, good thing DH was home and still awake from work (he works 3rd shift). I thought my little DD was going to be so easy to care for since she is my second, but DS was a textbook baby so the way I did things with him just isn't working for her and top that off with I have him to care for too (plus we have him in cyber school so I have to manage to teach him his lessons in two of my Y's) and it's much harder than I imagined. That's why I was/am so determined for BW and easy to work and felt like I must be doing something wrong if it's not. I won't give up though, I'll just cut myself (any little DD lol) some slack.

Thank you for sharing your own experience, it does make me feel better that sometimes you just have to do what you have to do in the beginning.  Being a preemie, I was going to give her until like 3 months old to even try to impliment a schedule but it started to get overwhelming. I have myself MORE overewhelmed trying so hard though so I'm going to take a few steps back and try to relax more. I've been logging her days since even before reading Tracy's book and I'll keep doing that. I wrote down the schedule idea you gave me and I'll use that like a guidline (but I won't get all stressed out if it doesn't work out like that).

Yeah, the morning A is definately her best/most pleasant/longest one of the day. She'll nap good after it only if she goes down at exactly the right moment. Even if I catch her cue on time, if while I'm settling her (swaddle/rocking/binkie) something distracts her or she fights that last "eyes flying back open" too hard, there goes the whole nap because by the time she's actually in a good sleep after all that, she's hungry again. On the flip side, if I get that good nap there, she's still groggy after it even if it's a good 2 hours. Maybe when I do get her to take it, cap it at 90 minutes?

I got to the point yesterday where I said to myself, ya know what, she's gonna do what she needs to do still at this age and that's all there is to it. I'm just going to do my best to stick with the EAS routine and when they fall will still just have to be up to her for now. Then I was relaxed LOL because I let myself off the hook.

Ok, so here's my only questions for now then.

She still wanted that nice long late afternoon/ into the evening nap yesterday from not napping hardly at all during the day. So, she went down for it at 4:00 and I woke her up at 6:00 because she was due for a feeding and I didn't want to disrupt bt. She fell asleep on my shoulder while I was burping her (of course lol) so I just sat there and let her sort of catnap on me for about 15-20 minutes so she would make it through her bath and E. Then she hung out with my mom from 7 until 7:30 (cranky of course from being tired) while I got DS his bath and then I gave her her's at 7:30 and she had her E at 8:00 and was asleep by 8:15. Does that sounds like the best way to handle the evening/bath/cluster feed/bt if she's still fighting for that late nap for a while? Just wake her up from it and sort of make her have A time before bt even if she's tired and miserable lol? I just still can't seem to figure out the timing of the last nap/E/bath/cluster feed E/BT without her having a complete melt down or waking up middle of the night thinking it's play time.

If I relax and just sort of roll with things for now and focus more on just EAS until she's a bit older, that's probably my biggest hurdle, the late nap and making it not too close to BT and I want to make sure I'm doing the right thing to hopefully adjust her out of that eventually (so we can have pleasant evenings here again instead of crying ones lol.

Also, she had her DF at 11:30 last night like I've been doing, went down fine and then was up at 3:30 for E and gave me a little bit of trouble going back down (it was around 4:15 by the time we were back to bed) then was up to E again at 6:45, but wanted right back to sleep after it, like it was the tail end of her night instead of WU for the day. I just went with it so I could get more sleep before having to wake up at 8:30 and she slept until 10:00, E and it's 10:44 and she's having an nice alert, pleasant A right now in her swing after a poop/change/dress.

This is the rythm she seems to like (a second "night" feed really early in the morning and then back to sleep until late morning). Then crappy short naps the rest of the day followed by her wanting a nice long nap late afternoon/evening. She's happiest that way but I think it sets us up for that hard time getting her back down for the 3 or 4 AM feed and a rough A before BT that's a struggle to keep her awake for. Does that make any sense? lol Should I just roll with this for now and chill out lol or try to slowly adjust it to fit more into what a "normal" day should look like. Maybe I should wait until she's more ready for a 4 hr. easy to work on adjusting?

I need to remember what you mentioned too, that we have to still think about her adjusted age, which is actually only 3 weeks! She definately doesn't act like a 3 weeks old though so that's why it's hard for me to keep in mind (she has fantastic head control and looks around at things making different facial expressions, will crane her neck to find me if she hears my voice, smiles a few times a day etc. Closer to a 2 month old's behavior).

I'm so sorry this turned into a novel LOL. I want you to know how much I greatly appreciate your help! I have been pouring over these boards for a few days now too in addition to talking with you and I know we'll eventually "get it", but for now just the support makes it much easier. I just don't want to set up any habits for her that will be hard to break and at the same time have some sort of idea how her days are for now so I can work with DS too.

Thank you, thank you a million times for taking the time to read this/help/encourage me!!

[Ima shel Alon]

You are very welcome, your post made me smile. I am happy that you have another outlook at things now. With all this sleep THING we sometimes forget to enjoy them, yk?

Yeah, the morning A is definately her best/most pleasant/longest one of the day. She'll nap good after it only if she goes down at exactly the right moment. Even if I catch her cue on time, if while I'm settling her (swaddle/rocking/binkie) something distracts her or she fights that last "eyes flying back open" too hard, there goes the whole nap because by the time she's actually in a good sleep after all that, she's hungry again. On the flip side, if I get that good nap there, she's still groggy after it even if it's a good 2 hours. Maybe when I do get her to take it, cap it at 90 minutes?

That was us. Morning nap was the reliable one and after that it was hit and miss
Do you think she is touchy? My DS was touchy (I use past tense because I found it gets better when they get older) and it took him a while to fully wake from his naps. I always kept him for like 5min in his room with no stimulation and talked softly to him and only then took him out of the room and started the A. I am not a morning person and I think he is not as well so I imagined he is waking up from each nap like I wake in the morning and it helped me understand what he needs. Sometimes I didn't even talk to him in the first few minutes because I don't like anyone talking to me till I am fully awake, lol.

she's gonna do what she needs to do still at this age and that's all there is to it. I'm just going to do my best to stick with the EAS routine and when they fall will still just have to be up to her for now.

You are so right. Write this on a big piece of paper and hang it on your fridge for times you forget!

so we can have pleasant evenings here again instead of crying ones lol.

The witching hours... yikes.
It sounds like it worked for you to get her a bit more tired with a 2h A (6-8). IIWY I would try that for a few more days and see if you are getting the same results - you would need to see how the night went to know if it was good. If she woke up soon after BT then she was OT at BT.

Also, she had her DF at 11:30 last night like I've been doing, went down fine and then was up at 3:30 for E and gave me a little bit of trouble going back down (it was around 4:15 by the time we were back to bed) then was up to E again at 6:45, but wanted right back to sleep after it, like it was the tail end of her night instead of WU for the day. I just went with it so I could get more sleep before having to wake up at 8:30 and she slept until 10:00, E and it's 10:44 and she's having an nice alert, pleasant A right now in her swing after a poop/change/dress.

I really don't know what to say about that. On one hand we always say here that 7-8 is a good WU for babies (if that's also the time they go to bed) so you aim for a 12h day and night. BUT, maybe she has different needs. I don't want to tell you to wake her up at 8 and mess up your day, yk? You would need to see if you are still getting awake NW then it's again - too much day sleep. The thing with a higher A is that in the first few days babies always are OT, cranky but they NEED the higher A, it takes them a few days to get used to it, that's all.

I just don't want to set up any habits for her that will be hard to break

You won't. If I could add one more thing to Tracey's books it would be that - there is nothing you can't undo later on. And actually it's harder to teach a young baby to sleep than to get rid of props and do ST at 5-6m. Sure, it's not going to be a piece of cake but it's still easier.

[JennLynn]

I think I'm just going to have to just keep logging everything for now, do my best to make our days at least sort of follow 3 hr. EAS, keep a consistent BT routine and time (even if it means waking her up from the last nap and putting up with crying and crankiness until bath/E/BT), and keep the same DF time. For now I'm going to go with the 7:00 E, 8:30 bath, 9:00 E then BT, 11:30 DF. If I find after a few days of logging that it'll work better to move everything back by an hour or even 2 (gradually of course) then I'll work on that later.

Still not sure what to do about the early WU/E and her still wanting to finish her night sleep. She was being a good girl for a few days lol and waking to E at 4:00 then WU for the day at like 8:30 and then I was getting a good A out of her then, so I'm hoping to get that back since I get more sleep that way too. So, if I shoot for a 9:00 BT then get her back to WU at 8:30ish it works. What I'll do if she does that again tomorrow is I'll just do a short A if that's all she can manage (just litteraly the E and diaper change) and see what happens. Maybe the diaper change will wake her and that'll adjust the day so she gets back on track.

Today was a doozy for sure lol. I have to come up with a plan for the rest of the day so that last 2 hours before bt work. She just would NOT nap today and the only one I've gotten today was in the moving swing other than a 30 min. catnap. I even gave in at one point and fed her after only 1 hour desperate to get her to sleep. Didn't even work, she still wouldn't sleep and even spit it up (of course). That's when I plopped her in the swing, turned it on and walked away lol.

Here was our crazy day today (what a mess!)

E - 10:00 (only took about 1/2 a feeding)
A - was VERY pleasant, smiling, cooing etc. then was acting tired
S - 11:30
       *here's that cat nap*
E - 12:00 (took a FULL feeding)
A -  she was in a perfectly fine mood...as long as she was being held 
S **NO go!
E - 1:00 (half a feeding, got really drowzy on the bottle, woke back up before I could even put her down )
S - 2:00 - in the moving swing after 15 minutes of off and on whining.

It's 4:30 so obviously now I have to wake her (probably should have at 4  ) and she's going to be a nightmare the rest of the day. I'll sqeeze another nap in there and just make sure she's up by 7 like yesterday to not cut too close to BT.

I'll log for a few more days and then post our days here and you can see what you think if I'm still at a loss lol. If there's anything you notice in today that I didn't pick up on, please let me know. I was aiming for 1 - 1.5 hr. As and 1.5 hr. naps 

Thanks again!

[Ima shel Alon]

What I'll do if she does that again tomorrow is I'll just do a short A if that's all she can manage (just litteraly the E and diaper change) and see what happens. Maybe the diaper change will wake her and that'll adjust the day so she gets back on track.

I am afraid I don't get that  she managed to have a full 1.5h A so far, no? Why shorten it? I think if her BT is 21 and WU is 8:30 that's a great length of night for her age.

I think the main problem today was that morning WU was late (10) and it's hard to start the day then.
Logging for a few days and coming back is a good idea! I'll be here 

You sound so much more relaxed! I am happy 

[JennLynn]

I am afraid I don't get that   she managed to have a full 1.5h A so far, no? Why shorten it? I think if her BT is 21 and WU is 8:30 that's a great length of night for her age.

Oops, no you misunderstood me there, I won't shorten that A if she gets up at 8:30, I know that was what worked well with the BT. I meant if she wakes up at 6:30 AM again like she did yesterday, instead of letting her go RIGHT back to sleep after E like I did, I'd do a short A there so that her WU for the day time wouldn't end up being so late after falling back to sleep. She'd just start the day at 6:30 AM then and get in an early nap instead of going right back to sleep and starting the day at 10. I hope I made sense that time lol.

Idk what happened yesterday that didn't work for her but we had a really rough night. After I woke her up at 4:30 yesterday here's how it went:

E - 4:30
A - She finished eating about 4:45 and I changed her diaper. She was still so tired that her head was bobbing and eyes were drooping no matter what I did, so I figured, well, she definately has to squeeze another nap in before the BT routine so I better do it now before it gets too late. I put her in her swing (oh, and THANK YOU for telling me to let myself off the hook for a while with using props, sigh of relief that I'm only tackling one battle at a time lol and can work on the actual sleep training stuff later) and she fell asleep by 5:00.
S - 5:00 - 6:30

E - 6:30 - she was drowzy on the bottle but I managed to keep her up and get her to take most of the feeding
A - my mom took her to give me a break and she just did whatever she had to to keep her awake, she was NOT a happy baby, all she wanted to do was sleep. At 8:00 I gave her a bath.
E - 8:30 - again REALLY sleepy but I got her to take most of it again (**I know this was maybe too long of an evening A, but I was afraid because she had been basically napping since 2:00 except for eating and getting changed and I was also trying to cluster feed her before BT, so if she ate at 6:30 there was no way she'd eat again before 8:30. Maybe I should have let her catnap in there, idk, these late afternoon/evenings are killing me. I get all flustered wondering if I should wake her from her last nap and when etc. and she's miserable and sleepy no matter how I do it.)
S - 8:45

E DF - 10:45 (she would only take 1/2 a feeding)
S - 11:15 (that's when I gave up on the feeding and we went to bed, she was basically sleeping the whole time lol)

E - 1:45 (she hasn't done that since she was 3 weeks old)
S - 2:15

E - 4:30 - took a whole feeding
and this is where MY day started, I've been up since and it's 8:40. Idk what happened, she was WIDE awake and I tried everything from 5 AM on to get her to sleep. At one point I had to put her down to go to the bathroom and by the time I got back she had herself in such a frenzy she was practically choking from crying so hard. I calmed her down and she fell asleep in my arms.
S - 6:30

E - 7:15 (she woke up on her own)
A - I changed her diaper and clothes (figured this was when I should signal to her that it was morning) She was awake (idk how possibly, but she was)
DH got home from work and rocked her for a while. Once 8:00 came and she was just yawning like crazy we put her in the swing and turned it on lol.
S - 8:30 - finally let go and fell asleep. She's still in the swing with it on and that's where I'm leaving her! LOL

I of course am now awake and can't manage to sleep, plus I have to wake DS soon so I guess I'll manage to function today on 4.5 hrs. sleep cut in half

What you said about a 12 hr. day and a 12hr. night makes sense. A 12 hr. night is going to mean she's going to wake to eat at least twice but that's ok IF she'll go right back to sleep.

From logging so far and trying to figure her out, here's what I've finally picked up on and can keep in mind for now:

Around 10 AM, she is a happy camper. 9 x out of 10 she wants to eat at 10:00 no matter what and she'll have her once a day poop during this feeding lol. After she poops she's not interested in finishing the bottle, she just wants to hang out and "coo" at stuff lol. This is her most content time of the entire day and also when she wants a long A (like 2 hours. and she's honestly content the whole time).

The mistake I think I've been making is trying to get her right to S after this nice long A and I think I'm having a hard time getting this crutial nap in because she's hungry (never takes all of the 10:00 E and it's been 2 hours since then). What I think I need to change is that I need to do a EAES here or we're never going to get the S and I think that her getting OT from not getting that particular nap is what messes up the whole day and then of course messes up the night. After 2 weeks of logging this is a very consistant time of the day.

God help me lol, we're on some sort of UTOT train and I want OFF! LOL I looked at the sticky thread that's "support for spirited babies" and I'm seeing that a lot of these babies need a EAES somewhere in the day and they just don't always follow EASY perfectly. I hope I'm on to something here and am starting to figure out what she needs because as much as I'm tired and miserable, I feel like she is too.

Oh, you asked me if she might not be a touchy baby, based on the quiz she fits right in there with spirited and I laughed when I saw that because "spirited" is a good word for her little personality lol. She can be touchy at times though, yes, and that was what came in second with the quiz. Thought I'd let you know in case that helps you to help me LOL.

There I go rambling again lol. You know I almost poured my coffee into the sugar bowl this morning instead of my cup lol. Anyway, I'll keep logging like I said and I'll do my best to relax and go with the flow I am going to try the EAES starting from the 10AM E and see if I can get a decent nap out of her that way to avoid the evening melt down. What will happen the rest of the day after that I have no clue lol but at least I think I have that figured out. Then I'll just shoot for a 8PM BT and hopefully everything in between will fall into place soon.

So, just wanted to clear up that confusion and show you the crazy night after the crazy day yesterday. I have a feeling that once I get her sorted out, she's going to be like a different baby once she's on a structured schedule, as long as I help her stick to it anyway

[JennLynn]

Oooo, I just happened to look back at something you told me yesterday, that if she wakes up soon after BT then she was OT at bedtime. Thank you for that little tidbit! That helps to know as I'm logging the next few days. That's for sure something that happened last night.

[jcsmom]

Hi there, just wanted to pop in to say "hi" and let you know we are going through similar patterns with my 8 week old. If she sleeps too much in the day she is up at 5 am to start her day. We're having real trouble getting her on EASY too. Hugs!

[Ima shel Alon]

E - 1:45 (she hasn't done that since she was 3 weeks old)

How old is she exactly now? Maybe a GS?

Idk what happened, she was WIDE awake and I tried everything from 5 AM on to get her to sleep

What might have happened is that the the 14 nap was too long and then she had another 1.5h nap instead of a 45min CN...
She started at 5AM UT which turned to OT probably and that's why she fell asleep at 6:30.

so I guess I'll manage to function today on 4.5 hrs.

I don't know how we do it, but somehow we do, right? I remember days that I was tired all day long, not just tired, knackered. There is a reason why sleep deprivation is used a method of torture...

I need to do a EAES here

Don't worry about it, really. If you think this what needs to be done now then go for it. I don't want to tell you how many months I had E before S because DS was a kind of baby who had to have his tummy full to go to bed. Not very BW

they just don't always follow EASY perfectly

No one does. IMO it's more important to have SOME routine that works for baby and mommy, the order of it doesn't matter so much. It's more important that both baby and mommy know what's coming.

You know I almost poured my coffee into the sugar bowl this morning instead of my cup lol

That made me laugh. I do crazy things like that all the time and just blame it on my mommy brain.
Good luck on the next few days! FX here.

[JennLynn]

Thanks I think I'm slllooowwwllllyyyy lol starting to figure her out   There is for sure that one nap of the day where if she doesn't get an"extra" E before it, it's not going to happen, so I've just gave in on that one and it's better . I'm still trying things out now that I know that and logging to see if she'll be consistant now, one quick question in the mean time : I'm still having a hard time figuring out her late afternoon. If I have to wake her from her last nap so it doesn't run too late and she's still REALLY tired and REALLY cranky lol, should I let her just catnap for maybe 30 minutes so she can make it through her bath without screaming or do you think I should push BT back instead. Idk why, but I can't seem to figure out the timing with the last nap, clusterfeeding, bath routine and BT.

[JennLynn]

oops, forgot..she's 11 weeks old and her adjusted age is 4 weeks.

[Ima shel Alon]

If I have to wake her from her last nap so it doesn't run too late and she's still REALLY tired and REALLY cranky lol, should I let her just catnap for maybe 30 minutes so she can make it through her bath without screaming or do you think I should push BT back instead.

I remember when DS was screaming through his bath I started feeding before the bath, that way he was calm for the bath and then I fed again before bed. You don't give more than you usually do, you simply share it to two feeds. Maybe you can try that?

oops, forgot..she's 11 weeks old and her adjusted age is 4 weeks.

Then maybe there is really a GS going on

[JennLynn]

Hi there, just wanted to pop in to say "hi" and let you know we are going through similar patterns with my 8 week old. If she sleeps too much in the day she is up at 5 am to start her day. We're having real trouble getting her on EASY too. Hugs!

Hi Thanks for the support

[JennLynn]

Oops, I messed up the quote there lol.

Maybe cap her naps at 90 minutes? Do you think she'd be more alert if I did that, so it's two sleep cycles instead of disrupting her part way into a third cycle? I either can't get her to nap at all or she's trying to nap for too long, I can't win lol

[JennLynn]

Well, had ANOTHER night of her thinking 4AM was play time    What on earth am I doing wrong  Here's how yesterday went:

WU/E - 6:45
A - changed diaper; she hung out on my lap for a while looking around and cooing; swing
S - 8:15 - 9:15   (I was hoping/expecting her to sleep until 9:45 or 10:00 here and tried to get her back to sleep but no go)

E - 9:30
A- she pooped, changed/dressed
*S - (she was in the swing for a bit and happy as a clam while I did some laundry etc., I check on her at 10:15 and she was sleeping! She woke up after about 15 minutes though)
E - 11:30 (this is where I feel she needs the EAE with the longer A to get a good S)
S - 12:15 - 2:30 (I had to wake her up)

E - 2:30
A - she was really drowzy and I had to take her by windows etc. to keep her up for a while
S - 3:15 I HAD to put her down for a few minutes, come back 5 minutes later, she's sleeping. I just stood there staring at her wondering what to do  I just let her go because I was at a loss at that point and figured if she as that tired then to let her sleep. She woke up though on her own at 3:45 (when I was expecting that she would start the next S  )
E - 4:30
S - 5:00 - 6:30 (I was out so DH was in charge from here on. He had to wake her at 6:30 per my instructions lol)

**I know that was WAY too long of an A and that mini CN from 3:15 to 3:45 probably messed her up, but I literaly only left her to hang out in the swing for not even 10 minutes and she was wide awake when I put her in there and only the mobile was on 

E - 6:30
A - normally she gives me a really hard time about staying awake here and gets miserable, but DH said she was wake and happy. He put on her jammies and stared WD/E around 8:00
S/BT - 8:30 (he said she was needing to be re-settled every hour or so after this)

E DF - 12:00AM (when I got home)
S - 12:30
E - 4:00AM
**would not go back to sleep until 6:30!!** E again at 6:00 first
S - 6:30 - 9:30 *DH didn't wake me up until 9:00 and I wanted to wake her but he convinced me to just let her wake on her own and start the day from there.

WU/E - 9:30AM
A - (pooped and dressed for the day) she's awake and content and it's now 10:15

I just feel like throwing my hands up in the air at this point and letting her do whatever the heck she wants, even if it means I get no sleep because once again I'm stressed out because nothing I do is working for her. I guess I just have to deal with erratic sleeping for now 

[Ima shel Alon]

even if it means I get no sleep

Really? If you think that you are better off without EASY for a few days then try it out. I will you see you here in a few days

Ok, a few things about your day:
She defo needs more A, she is not awake enough, gives you UT naps mostly, her nap before BT should be a CN and not a full nap and 2h before BT for a baby who can usually manage only 1:15 approx. is way way too much. She was UT the whole day but went to bed OT and that's why she woke up so often after BT.
IIWY I would work on increasing her A and perhaps have some more activity, I think she could be US if she hangs out in the swing too much. You can let her hold things, look at pictures, massage her...
But I think your biggest pitfall is here:

S - 6:30 - 9:30

You need to start the day every day at the same time when you are trying to figure out things. When she will be settled with her day you can let her sleep 30min more or less than what she usually does, but like it's important to be consistent with BT hour it's important to be persistent with WU. I know you think she is catching up on sleep, in fact she treats her like it's still her night sleep and unless you wake her and start the day she'll keep on doing that. It's also easier to log things and find patterns when you have WU and BT at the same time.

You mentioned that it's like play time for her at 4AM. What is she doing? Is she just lying there and cooing or she is crying? Is she in the same room as you?