How much should my 11 month old be eating?

[ENMS]

DS is 11 months old and due to lots of issues / intolerances he is not yet eating solids the way he should for his age.  We have periods of total food refusal when he gets tummy issues, and he really only started eating regularly about a month ago. He is on a very restricted diet which right now consists of green beans, zucchini and chicken.

I do not really have food choices for him for breakfast but I offer 10-15 Nutrios per day.

He still gets a NF (or 2 last night  ) that I haven't weaned yet since he has had long periods without eating any solid foods and I could see that usually when he eats enough, he will STTN (or at least until 5AM).

He has started to walk this week and seems exceptionnally hungry. I am not sure how much he should be eating. I am feeding him until he's full, but he's not been eating dinner well because he's OT from short naps this week.

Today he ate:


NF 11PM 4 oz (I only offered 4 oz)
NF  3AM 8 oz
Breakfast: 10-15 Nutrios
Bottle 5 oz 7:00
11:00 little pieces of chicken and green beans, 1/2 cup zucchini puree with 15ml of chicken puree
12:30 bottle 5 oz
3:00 1/2 cup of green beans puree (I just added this as a snack today since he seemed so hungry yesterday)
3:30 bottle 8.5 oz
5:00 1/2 cup of green beans puree
6:20 bottle 8 oz

I'm wondering if he should be eating significantly more than that at his age?

I'm planning to wean the NF, but we keep having issues which delay this (food reaction so he doesn't eat anything for over a week, cold, etc).

TIA

[*Kara*]

I would say so... only because things like veggies don't do much in terms of keeping him full...

He is taking a good amount of formula though... I would be hesitant to wean anything until you are able to give him more in terms of solids...

[ENMS]

only because things like veggies don't do much in terms of keeping him full...

What does? Cereals? Or more meat? I'm very very restricted with his diet - basically he's allowed pork, lamb, chicken, and green veggies .  He's not loving his meat right now but we're working on that.  I'm trying to get some supplements which should hopefully help us give him more variety, but there is no assurance that it will work 

He is taking a good amount of formula though... I would be hesitant to wean anything until you are able to give him more in terms of solids...

Being able to give him more in terms of variety may take a while... But if he could eat bigger quantities of what he's currently getting, I'm hoping it would help, yk?  I always have in the back of my head, kind of what comes first, the chicken or the egg Is he eating not a lot because he's not hungry since he's full from his formula? Or is he eating as best as he can in the circumstances and needs all that formula anyway since his diet is so strict, yk?

[*Kara*]

kind of what comes first, the chicken or the egg Is he eating not a lot because he's not hungry since he's full from his formula? Or is he eating as best as he can in the circumstances and needs all that formula anyway since his diet is so strict, yk?

I totally understand this hun... just tonight it occurred to me as DD was drinking her bedtime formula bottle, that the reason she has been refusing a snack for the last 2 weeks after her nap is the 5 ozs of formula she gets right before she goes down!   

In terms of what will keep him feeling fuller for longer... whole grains and protein.  Any plans for beans yet?  What about quinoa?

FWIW - DD just started to consistently eat meat the last month or two...

[ENMS]

We are sooooo restricted with his diet. M has an enzyme deficiency which means he basically can only eat meat and green veggies for now. Once things are fully under control, I can try to introduce some new foods in moderation and see if he can tolerate them. I'm already cheating a bit with Nutrios but I need to offer something at breakfast! I've tried quinoa in the past and he didn't like it, I may just try it instead of the Nutrios and see if he takes to it better this time.

So today went a bit better - here it goes:

NF 1:30 8 oz
F 5:30 4 oz (I only offered 4 oz)
Breakfast 20 Nutrios 8:00
Lunch 11:00 1 cup of zucchini with 1 oz of chicken puree mixed in, a few pieces of chicken and green beans
Bottle 8 oz
Snack 1/2 cup of green beans puree
Bottle 8 oz
Dinner a few pieces of chicken and zucchini, green beans puree 1/2 cup

So in terms of quantity, does it seem about right? Although what he's eating is limited and nutritious, I really think I could reduce his formula intake and it would help him eat more. This morning I didn't offer a top up bottle when he got up (he had 4 oz at 5:30) and he ate really well for lunch. He's nearing 1yo now and I'd like to start moving him towards bigger quantities - I just don't know what's normal at that age.

If that works I am hoping to eliminate the NF, and then see if we stick to 4 bottles or if we can move down to 3 during the day.

Does that make any sense?

[*Kara*]

Makes total sense.. I think his quantities of solids are good!  That plus the formula - the boy has a good appetite

[Amanda5555]

Hey Elise

I have read along. I wonder if you shouldn't offer one of your protein choices at breakfast to kickstart his appetite and start his caloric intake earlier in the day. Still give the nutrios because they are totally fun and good practise but I would start his lunch meal at breakfast and so on. No body said you can't eat dinner foods for breakfast. I bet you will find for the first little while until he gets used to it he may decrease his dinner intake but will catch up. His body has probably adapted to his condition thus far. Kids are great like that. IMHO I think M needs to have protein at every meal. I wouldn't worry about quantity so much at this point as he is still quite interested in his formula. I think your quantities are right for him as an individual. I would experiment a bit and offer him a whole lot and when he seems no longer interested that's when I would stop. Poor M may be just a little bit food shy since its been such a tough road for him.

B has started being less interested in his formula as of late. Especially the evening bottle. And he went through a period where he didn't eat much for dinner for a bit. With his tummy issues and digestion that worked for him as he seems to have more trouble in the evenings. The longer of a stretch he has to digest the better for him apparently. But he's getting at least three meals and snacks during the day. Some days he takes less and some days he takes more. Some days I feel like I can't fill him up and sometimes I have no idea what the heck he wants. I think we've just gotten over a growth spurt actually as well becuase I couldn't seem to keep the kid full. Now his appetite has gone back down but he's sleeping a ton.

There is a great book called "wheat belly" which I highly recommend reading. Its a bit technical at times and a bit repetative but the science is solid and very interesting!!!!

HTH 

[ENMS]

Thanks Amanda . I will try the protein at breakfast. I have also noticed that dinner after 5PM does not go too well with him - he's too tired to eat properly so I'l ltry to get home as early as possible from work and feed him right away.

We had lots of NF last night - I think M is really, really hungry and I'm going to have to find creative alternatives for him because it is not enough for him now that the is walking.

I put up a separate post in bottle feeding but maybe I should have put it here instead? Kara feel free to merge?

11 month old started walking and went from 1 to 2-3 NF!

[*Kara*]

It's fine hun   I have answered on the other post as well

[Amanda5555]

I really do think the protein will hold him much longer through the day. He may not be able to have much variety right now but that's ok for now until you get everything sorted out. Just out of curiosity as I can't remember. What happens when you feed a bottle first thing in the morning and then solids right after or 30 minutes after? It appears looking at your most recent routine he seems to get a full bottle in the night and then sort of snacks until lunch. So for instance at 130am or 330am  he's taking a full meal. Then a snack 4 hrs later but sometimes not. Maybe he's gotten a bit into the habit of switching his nights and days but its very disorganized so its not the same every night and sometimes he's able to get that long night sleep. I wonder too if that doesn't affect his digestion a bit when his body doesn't get that big break night where his parasympathetic nervous system kicks in? I wonder if feeding him his biggest meals starting as early in the day as he will manage may make a difference? So start at breakfast and do his biggest meals at breakfast and lunch and then just kind of see where he's at in the afternoons. Maybe offer extra formula through the day as well in a sippy cup.

I know its different for you guys but here's what our day looks like in terms of eating.

730 WU-8-9 oz bottle solids following right after usually 1-2 cups of oatmeal cereal and a dollop of blueberries puree offer of watery juice but usually just water

1130-1200 8-9oz bottle 1/2 to a whole packet of sweet potatoe chicken and apples(baby gourmet), half a jar of fruit, a couple of cheerios or fingery crackery things, watery juice in a sippy cup ( on hungry days otherwise he will have less)

4ish 8-9 oz bottle
430-5pm We eat dinner and B has some of what we're eating and the other half of the lunch meat item, fruit if he wants

By supper he's usually not as hungry and then goes until the next morning. Lately he's been needing a snack in the morn and aft but depends on the day.

I know its way different for you guys because of M's enzyme deficiency but just thought I'd share in case its helpful it seems to work well with B's crazy tummy and digestion    


 

[*Kara*]

Amanda: 1-2 CUPS of oatmeal?  I don't even eat that much LOL!

[Amanda5555]

Lol maybe I'm estimating high I don't measure it lol oops

[ENMS]

Thanks Amanda

Good news - tonight he ate really well at dinner .   A full cup of zucchini puree mixed in with some strained turkey. He had the same thing at lunch, and then a big snack of green beans this PM. Hopefully that keeps him full a bit. Our daycare lady also mentionned a GS tonight when I picked him up, as he's just eating and eating, he's a bottomless pit this kid! I've noticed this week that he will eat dinner well if offered around 5-5:15, but any later than that and he won't eat much. So I'll try to make that extra efforts to be home early next week to feed him dinner.

We'll see what kind of night this bring us. Hopefully it's a good one.

Amanda I agree. I never mind a NF so long as he eats fully in the AM, yk. I'll see how it goes in the next couple of days and we'll re-adjust our routine as needed. I think we need to push breakfast, you're totally right. Will try some rice cereal tomorrow and see how that works out. Still toying with the idea of introducing eggs but not sure yet. I'm a wuss, too scared of a reaction 

[*Kara*]

Maybe just try egg yolks since the whites are generally the allergic bit?

[Amanda5555]

Even offering a bit of turkey or chicken for breakfast if you're really afraid of the eggs for now. Could totally be a GS or developmental leap for sure since he's now walking and using up all of those calories! Go M go!!!!!

I think whatever you decide to try it will take a bit to take effect. And you also have to think of yourself and sometime we just have to do whatever works and worry about it later. 

So I'll try to make that extra efforts to be home early next week to feed him dinner.

Can your daycare provider start him off for his evening meal? Sometimes we will do that with B. I may feed him early before our dinner is ready but then just have him be part of our dinner time experience and whatever he gets is just extra. If he's still hungry he eats if not he just plays while we eat. Just a thought in case its difficult to make it home early. To take some of the pressure off of yourself. Working and having a LO is hard enough! Just brainstorming here lol.

LOL so I paid more attention to how much cereal I actually give B  and ya totally not 2 cups lol. Maybe like 1 cup.........maybe. See this is why I suck at cooking lol.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

Still toying with the idea of introducing eggs but not sure yet. I'm a wuss, too scared of a reaction 

Yeah, Spencer is 4 and I still am afraid to feed her nuts!  She was (well still is to some degree) a self limiting eater, so I kept up her formula intake for quite awhile, in fact I just stop giving her an a.m. sippy of formula mixed with soy milk earlier this year once I was sure she was getting enough nutrients from her food. 

[*Kara*]

Maybe like 1 cup.........maybe

even a cup is triple a toddler serving   Hungry boy!  I have a friend with an LO who loves his oatmeal and eats a good 3/4 cup every morning!  He's 18 months though

Elise - I agree with Amanda - sometimes you just have to do things a little odd to make it work for your specific LO... I still feed DD her breakfast in front of the television since it's the only way she will sit still and eat it!  Otherwise, she has a few bites and runs off to play only to become crazy grumpy from hunger half an hour later and then refuse to eat because she is starving

[Amanda5555]

even a cup is triple a toddler serving   Hungry boy!  I have a friend with an LO who loves his oatmeal and eats a good 3/4 cup every morning!

Lol yes he is a hungry boy. I think he's making up for when he used to spit up all his formula lol. He hasn't quite figured out that its ok he's going to keep it down now. Poor fella lol.

[*Kara*]

LOL!  Poor guy did have a rough go!

[ENMS]

Thanks Heidi, nice to know I'm not alone

Kara - LOL about the breakfast.  You're right though, whatever works, I'll just do it at this point.

Amanda - thanks for the ideas. I've added a snack to M's day which the daycare lady gives to him around 3-4 ish. I think I'll try hard for now to make it home early, if not for the food then just because he is so tired lately with learning to walk and all, the sooner we're home, the sooner I can put him to bed.

Well I should know by now because it's been working that way for 11 months now - one step forward, two steps back . M has been pretty much refusing to eat all week-end. No idea why, maybe the pears I gave him upset his stomach, maybe I'm giving him too many Nutrios and it's making him bloated, I dunno, but he's barely eating.  It's just so upsetting when things were going well. I NEED him to eat well, for my sanity!

Glad to know that the quantities he was eating were normal though, it's reassuring.

[Amanda5555]

((((((((((HUGS))))))))) Elise must be so hard hang in there.

[*Kara*]

one year molars maybe?

[ENMS]

Maybe, he does stick his fingers farther in his mouth than he ever has - and he has all 8 teeth in the front now so i guess those are next.

But he did eat like a champ for my mom who was babysitting tonight - maybe I scared him off with the rice cereal or the pears yesterday morning

[*Kara*]

Could be teeth then for sure.. I found that DD would eat very little all day and then fine for dinner or the opposite... would eat fine all day and refuse dinner...

[ENMS]

My feeling though is that I've breached his trust by offering rice cereal...

He sticks out his tongue to taste anything I offer ever since.

Oh boy it's not going to be an easy road...

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

My feeling though is that I've breached his trust by offering rice cereal...

He sticks out his tongue to taste anything I offer ever since.

Oh boy it's not going to be an easy road...

{{{hugs}}}  I can see where that would make him wary, that sucks!

[ENMS]

Interesting turn of events.

DS had a NF around 2AM last night (7 oz). Then this morning he got up, I gave him 1oz of milk with his enzymes like I always do, and he had his Nutrios. DH was driving the kids and he completely forgot to give him his AM bottle. DS went on until lunch time no problem, ate fantastically well at lunch, then had his bottle.

This really makes me think his eating issues might be related to drinking too much milk. I'm going to try to wean his NF starting next week I think.

[*Kara*]

Interesting for sure!

[ENMS]

So how much should I aim for him to drink in a day?

I was thinking, maybe offer 3 x 8 oz bottles (currently 4) and slowly weaning the NF.

[*Kara*]

I think that's a good starting point for sure... DD was down to 3 bottles at this age and i had started to reduce them... she had 6ozs at wake, 6ozs before nap and 7ozs at bedtime.

[Amanda5555]

That's also where we're at. 3 8-9oz bottles a day (Hard to tell exactly with thickener). Lately B has stopped taking all of his last bottle in the day.

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

I can't even remember where we were at that stage, though I imagine we may have been down to 3, one morning and one bedtime milk feed of 8 oz and a smaller one after nap time with as a snack.

[ENMS]

Thanks everyone

Seems to be working well so far.

He woke at 11:15 last night, DH tried for 30 mins to resettle him but ended up giving a bottle - 6 oz. Then at 5 he woke again I gave him 4 oz and he slept through to 7:15. He had breakfast (2 oz of formula for his enzymes, 2 oz of pears and some nutrios) and I didn't offer another bottle. Then for lunch he had more than 2 oz of chicken with about 2 oz of zucchini with some nutrios. Then I offered a bottle again and he took 5 oz.

I know it's unconventional but I'm thinking my priority now is to reduce the oz during the day so that he starts eating better quantities (while holding the same of reducing the oz at night). Then once he's eating satisfactorily, I'll work on shifting those calories from night to day. That way I'll know he's getting enough to eat during the day which is the priority. I've held off until now to reducing the day formula since I figured the nighttime oz should go first but I think now I don't have much of a choice.

[*Kara*]

Sounds like a good plan to me!

[ENMS]

It's been working well . He is now eating a good 2 oz of chicken or turkey a day, with 4-6 oz of vegs, and quite a few Nutrios (at least 30 maybe)? He's also getting 2 oz of pears every other day.

I'm just wondering, what is the mimimum formula intake at his age? He hasn't been drinking his bottles fully even though I'm offering only 3, so I'm wondering if he's getting enough fluids. I did offer water with every meal and he takes a bit, but not a lot.

[*Kara*]

Milk intake from a year is 16 ozs (in Canada) so I'm sure he is just fine   And really, most countries (the UK) suggest 12 ozs per day, so not to worry!  Our recs in Canada are based on Vit D in cow's milk... which can be supplemented of course so not really a concern.

[ENMS]

Phew!

I had in mind 24 oz so that's much better.

Hopefully things go well and I can start weaning the NF in a few weeks!

[*Kara*]

LOL!  I remember being in a panic because DD wouldn't replace her lost formula with the same amount of water   Funny enough, she has survived!

now she has about 12 ozs of formula (which will be going away soon since I found a milk she likes - almond/coconut).. and generally about 8 ozs of water over the whole day.

[ENMS]

Well of course he caught up with 2 NF

Starting to think I may be getting him into bad habits now with this is it too much to do everything at the same time (wean NF, drop a daytime bottle)?

[creations]

Hi Elise.  I haven't read through the full thread but wanted to jump in to offer support.
I personally wouldn't try to wean the night feeds along with dropping a day bottle.  I'd go for the night feeds first and see what happened to the day milk and solids as a result.
I know you've had such a difficult time with feeding, do bare in mind that just about ALL of us panic about milk and solids intake, I think it's naturally built in to mums to worry about it!
My DS took only half the recommended milk intake, wow I worried but he's never lost weight, he just didn't need as much as some other babies (I give vitamin drops which is recommended in the UK).  I still worry about his solids even though he is generally a good eater so I think in your case there is an understandable additional worry because of what you've been through already.  The thing to keep in mind IMO is that unless they are currently very sick they are pretty good at monitoring their own intake, their survival instinct is pretty good and they won't let themselves starve, yk?

hugs x

[Amanda5555]

I'd go for the night feeds first and see what happened to the day milk and solids as a result.

I agree with this very much as well. If he is getting his main meals (ie formula at night) he won't need/want the calories in the day. Viscious cycle for sure.

[ENMS]

Thank you ladies. 

Creations I had decided to try to wean a day bottle because on Friday DH forgot to give a bottle to M and he ate so much better.  As you know we've had lots of problems with solids and I was trying to up his solids intake before weaning the NF. But I guess that if I know he CAN eat well, then I don't need to worry about weaning the NF - I couldn't do it until I knew he could digest well a reasonable amount of solids, but now I know he can, so I guess in the end he chooses what and when to eat now - so the rules of the game are changing.

I have already started decreasing the oz in his night bottles. He was always at 1 bottle until he started walking (which coincided with me going back to work) when he started wanting 2 NF  . 

So can you ladies help me with a plan? Do I start with fully weaning one of the 2 bottles cold turkey? Some nights he has 1, but I'd say he has 2 at least 2 nights out of 3.  ALso, when he has 2 bottles at night, the second one is always early morning (5AM-ish), and when that happens I don't give him a morning bottle anymore. So should I work on resettling him for that second feed first, and giving him an AM bottle instead, and once that's successful, move on to the MOTN bottle by slowly reducing the oz? Do I continue to offer 4 bottles during the day while I do that?

[*Kara*]

I would Elise... be sure that the first NF is a full bottle for now and resettle for the second one (then we know it's not a hunger wake given the full feed earlier).  Leave day bottles as they are for now and adjust the volume as you see fit to get the solids intake established...

[ENMS]

Ah ok, so I'd keep 4 x 6 oz bottles for now let's say until the NF are fully weaned, and then once that's done start decreasing the other NF slowly until I get to 0.

Then as a 3rd step, once all NF are gone, see to make the transition to 3 day bottles?

[creations]

on Friday DH forgot to give a bottle to M

And did you say "What do you mean you FORGOT to feed the baby?"

A 5am bottle is hard to wean IMO because the resettling is so hard at that time in the morning.  You might want to try a W2S or even a GW to reduce the oz and make up for them at morning WU.  But if you can go cold turkey then all the faster.

Good luck xx

[ENMS]

And did you say "What do you mean you FORGOT to feed the baby?"

LOL . DH didn't even NOTICE. I got home and said how come there's a bottle in the fridge? OOPS, I forgot to give it to him this morning  DS was a happy baby all morning, and ate fantastically well at lunch, so luckily for DH these overweighed the fact that he FORGOT

A 5am bottle is hard to wean IMO because the resettling is so hard at that time in the morning.  You might want to try a W2S or even a GW to reduce the oz and make up for them at morning WU.  But if you can go cold turkey then all the faster.

That is very interesting creations and I am so afraid of that. Then would you say it might be a good idea to go cold turkey on the first feed? and keep that one (TBH I could totally live with a 5AM feed, if there was no other NF). Or continue how I was doing, which is to drop the oz gradually on the first NF, and if I get a 5AM feed, I just skip the feed when he wakes (he gets breakfast and 2 oz of formula anyway for his digestive enzyme supplement).

[creations]

Ha!  Now you're asking something there.
Who knows what will suit your DS the best.  Kara's logic is sound, to keep the first NW feed so that you know he's had a feed and doesn't need the 5am.  Although at 11 months, and with a good amount of day milk plus solids (even limited) I'd say he doesn't need the night feeds at all now.  I think skipping that morning milk on DH's watch shows that he can go without some of the milk and you've said this yourself.
Me, well I'd go for a GW on one then the other, because I'm just not good at cold turkey, I've always been too afraid of the consequences.  It doesn't need to take long to GW maybe a few days for the 5am because there will be a feed not long later.  Even the first NW feed doesn't need to take more than 7-14 days really.
So - my answer is I don't think it really matters, just choose one and get started.  Try not to think about it too much and take a spare bottle or sippy with water in as a back up after the reduced milk.
The thought and planning is often more scary than the real thing xx

One rule I gave myself on a wean feed (the DF) was not to offer more than he took in any one night.  ie if I usually offered 180ml but one night he only took 90ml then the next night I only offered 90ml rather than just a wean reduction of 150ml.  Hope that makes sense.  For me it got things moving quicker and felt reassuring that DS had taken less and still lived

[ENMS]

The thought and planning is often more scary than the real thing xx

I know... I think it shows in my posts that I am utterly terrified of doing this.  I've been putting it off forever, but now it's time. I'll make a plan with DH tonight and we'll stick to it. At this point, I don't think he NEEDS the NF. Either he wants to see us (I'm back to work too now) or he's just gotten used to it. There was a time when if he'd eat he wouldn't wake up to feed but somehow in all the chaos I guess we lots that. 

[creations]

Deep breath and take the plunge.
I'm sure it won't be as bad as you think.
xx