Help with 8wo's wacky nw

[Vinimamae]

Hi all, first time poster here. I need help with my 8wo's recent nw problems.  I've been on a very loose EASY routine with my boy since birth - loose in that the times were always different, but tried to follow the EASY pattern.  My lo was always a miserable napper during the day, sometimes going hours without sleep, but was pretty good at night, often going 3, 4, or even 5 hr stretches without any effort.  But this week all hell broke loose.  He became incredibly fussy during the day (i'm talking nonstop crying for hours), but started napping much better.  But at night he is totally regressing, waking up 3 or 4 times, sometimes waking 1 hr from his feed.  Because he's been fussy and i'm exhausted, i just feed him when he wakes, which calms him down enough. Sometimes he'll feed well, others not.  During the day he seems ok with a 3-hr schedule, with the exception of a couple of feedings when he wants to eat earlier.

Is there an explanation for this 8wo issue?? I was looking forward to settling down to a routine at this point, but i feel like we're worse off than at week 1!!  This is the first week that we are at home alone after my mother left- could this be causing the disruption??  This is also the week I started pumping, but I'm sure that's a coincidence. (Right?)

Some additional info: he was born 10 days early, has been a pro at putting on weight, and was never an overly fussy baby until now, so pediatrician never even mentioned reflux or colic.  He was a grunter in his sleep, but that seems to have gone away reccently.  He does grunt and cry sometime to pass gas, and he recently went from frequent poops to one every couple of days.

Help!!!

[Vinimamae]

I should also add that he's also developed a nasty habit of pulling on my breasts when nursing.  Sometimes he will also cry when feeding, which is new, but a quick burp relieves the crying.

[Erin M]

Hey hun, sorry we missed you for a few days there. 
It sounds to me like some sort of discomfort.  Is it possible that he might need to be burped more after feedings?  I'm wondering if he's a little gassy and feeding to soothe his sore tummy -- but the more frequent feeds is only going to make that worse. 
The pulling on the breasts -- do you have a forceful let down?  Do you find that the milk shoots out or comes more slowly?  Wondering about the pumping, though it's probably unrelated -- at what point in the day are you pumping relative to his feeds? 

[Erin M]

Here's some more info on fast let downs: http://kellymom.com/bf/got-milk/supply-worries/fast-letdown/?
Also, how are his poops?  Color, consistency, etc.?

[Vinimamae]

Thanks a million, ladies! I don't think i have a forceful let down; milk never shoots out, i dont even leak at all.  I think it was gas.  He seems to suffer a lot with gas - Thanksgiving food was a nightmare for him.  i bought some gas drops today and i hope it works. His poop recently changed from super frequent (a few a day) to one, often explosive bm every few days that is the same texture, but a little greener in color.  My pd says its normal and explosive bms are another sign of gassiness, but she also doesnt believe that gas drops work, which i hope is not the case. I burp him tons, not always successfully.

With all of this, i must say that the pulling on the breasts has improved in the past few days.  He did recently move to more of a grazer eating style, not sure if that helped with the pulling.  I dont really want to encourage grazing - i cant take the 2-hr feeding schedule, whih is more frequent than when he was a 2-week-old.  The worst part is that his grazing style continues overnight, which means almost hourly wakings.  I'm totally lost on how to address this problem, and im starting to get a bit tired, which is making me consider formula, which i really would rather not give just yet.  Any advice on how to address this issue (or should i start a new thread)??  HELP!!!

By the way, lo is 10-weeks-old now. 

[Erin M]

Unless you think it's a growth spurt, I'd try to keep him on a 2.5-3 hour eating routine if you can as more frequent feeds are going to make him even more gassy.  I feel like there could be something else going on, let me keep thinking on this.

[becj86]

Hi,

Having had a bub with explosive greenish poos - I'm tipping that he's not getting a balance of foremilk/hindmilk. You say this started when you started pumping? If so, I'd say you've stimulated more supply, which is fine, but you may need to consider feeding off one side for each feed and keeping those feeds further apart (2.5-3hr minimum) to ensure LO is getting the fats in the milk. The fats tend to stick to the walls of the milk ducts and the sugary watery milk comes out first - it travels through the gut much faster than the fats, as its quicker to digest and this can cause both gas and damage to the gut which results in the green poos.

Have a read: http://kellymom.com/health/baby-health/m2m-green-stools/ http://breastfeeding.hypermart.net/toomuchmilk.html

I wonder if you're finding he's showing hunger signs just before naps? What's your EASY look like on a given day?

[Vinimamae]

So I was thinking of the foremilk/hindmilk theory as well.  As I mentioned, he's been eating frequently, but nursing for an average of 10 minutes per breast, and overnight I can only get him to latch onto one breast for around 8-10 minutes, so he's definitely not eating enough then.  So I guess I should just try to feed him longer, and hope that this will allow him to stretch his time between feedings, right?  Question is, how do I make him feed longer?  Also, I tried to feed him longer today and he's been spitting up a lot more frequently than before (he never had major spit up before) - could that be an indication that he's getting TOO MUCH milk? 

So my EASY schedule has been all over the place.  I've been having a hard time waking him at a consistent hour every day (which I plan on doing, since I only have 6 weeks left of my maternity leave), especially since our sleep is so crappy, but he manages to sleep a good 2 hours straight around the 6/7 a.m. hour.  So I guess an average day for us starts at around 6:30 am.  I try to keep to an EAS routine, but he naps for a good 2 hours after the 6:30 feed and then has a very hard time napping for longer than 45 minutes for the other naps.  His feedings are tough - often he wakes from his naps crying, so I just feed him (at around 2 hrs from last feed), which I think it's the root of my problem.  In the early evening (around 6, on average), he'll take a 20-30 minute nap.  I will then bathe him, feed him, and put him to sleep.  Sometimes we feed, then bathe and sleep.  Does that affect his routine?  I try to put him down at around 7:30/8 p.m., then he feeds around 10 or 11, then his nights are totally random - he'll sometimes wake up twice, sometimes 4 times, but never sleeps for longer than 2 hours overnight (unless he's being held by my husband in bed - then he'll go 5 hours!).  I'm sorry I have a hard time putting this into an easy EASY format to read, but that's because my schedule is so random...  it's driving me nuts!  How can I extend his night sleep time??

On a separate note, and not to suck up or anything, I just have to say how incredible it is to have a support network like this on the web.  I'm a first time mom and feeling totally lost, but having forums like this with incredible ladies like you really makes me feel so much better.  So thank you!! 

[becj86]

Ok, my suggestion would be to block feed - so try feeding only off one side for 4hr, then the other side for the next 4hr - that ensure he gets to drain the breast fully. Something else you can try is to pump, then put him on the breast - he's more efficient at getting milk from the breast and lots of the foremilk will be gone and he'll get plenty of fats that way.

The time he feeds - he could be getting plenty in that 10mins. LO's get more efficient at eating and I know DS was a quick feeder - 10mins was a long feed for him.

Re: your routine - If you try to keep a 12hr day/12hr night, that may help. At the moment he's up for the day at 6:30 (though I think that 2hr nap may be part of his night...) and going to bed at 7:30/8.

Something else you can do to release the fats into your milk earlier on in the feed is to massage your breast near the chest wall to help the fats unstick from the walls of the milk ducts.

[ZacsMumme]

Sounds like the same GS behaviour we are getting ....
Agree with Bec and Erin though re feeding routine etc.

[Erin M]

Agree with Bec on the fact that he's probably on more of an 8-8 routine right now too and that the massive nap at 6:30 is part of his night sleep.  I'd give block feeding (in short blocks) a try like Bec said.

How much A time are you managing right now after your feeds?  I understand how hard it is to track your day at this point, what does just the first part of the day look like?  It shouldn't matter whether you do bed then bath or the reverse unless he seems to be getting overstimulated from the bath. 

[Vinimamae]

Thanks for the advice. My only concern with nursing from one breast at a time is that I've had SEVERAL veh painful plugged ducts and one bout of mastitis, so I'm afraid that not feeding out of both breasts each time could make it worst.  Any thoughts?

So, to give you an idea, here's my schedule so far today:  baby woke up and nursed at 2:30, slept all the way until his next feed at 5:30, but then was up and super fussy (maybe gas pain - lots of high-pitched screams and passing gas) until 7. He then slept until 8:30.  He nursed at 9, played until 10:30, woke up at 11:45, nursed and played until 1pm. He's currently napping (on my lap).  So it looks like we have been able to get back to something closer than a 3-hr schedule with the feedings (which may have been reflected in he non-explosive yellow bm this morning), with about 1:20 of activity and around 1 hr of napping.  The naps are very difficult, he fights sleep.  At night it seems that we are sticking with the 3-hr schedule, which, without the A time means about 2.5 hrs of sleeping.  I'd like to extend the sleep time at night, just dont know how...

[becj86]

My only concern with nursing from one breast at a time is that I've had SEVERAL veh painful plugged ducts and one bout of mastitis, so I'm afraid that not feeding out of both breasts each time could make it worst.  Any thoughts?

Feeding off one breast at a time will actually ensure each one gets fully drained which is the best way to guard against blocked ducts.

[Vinimamae]

I'll give it a shot, then.  How do I keep him on long enough to take in enough milk? I usually leave him on until he doesnt want to nurse anymore, but then he still takes the second breast.  If I just do one breast, wont that mean he's only taking in half a meal? 

[becj86]

I usually leave him on until he doesnt want to nurse anymore, but then he still takes the second breast.  If I just do one breast, wont that mean he's only taking in half a meal? 

How do you know he doesn't want to nurse any more and its time to change sides?
If you do just one breast, with your oversupply its more like he's taking a full meal - drinks, entree, main, desert - instead of just drinks, entree, drinks, entree. Does that make sense?