Nearly 23 mo. Is this routine ok?

[shresmummy]

Yes, I think total A time in a day is a good way to keep track of things too. That is whyi have noticed that ifhehas a 2 hr nap he endsup having a 14 hr day no matter what.

Ugggh, what an awful end to the day today. I started off ok.

Last night, despite only a 1h20 min nap in the day he went t bed at 7:30 and slept till 5:40 this am. But woke up smiling and readyto start the day. He isn't doing more than 10h15 min nights...

So today I did
Wu 5:40 (but I cuddled till 6 and he was off/on)
Nap 12-2
Bt - took him in at 7, but he was messing around and then got ot and only finally slept at 8:15!!!

What is going on?

I don't know how tonight's going to go now...

[ZacsMumme]

Mmm could be developmental if he is almost 2
I'd be tempted to try an earlier BT and rule out OT ie 6.30

[*Kara*]

I think he may have a bit of OT happening...

I would hold that nap at 1230pm come hell or high water - regardless of wake up time.  And keep BT as close to 730 as you can... if he seems OT, 7pm

[shresmummy]

Hi ladies, just wanted to update on the last few days... I am so lost

yesterday
wu 5:20!!! (tried to cuddle/hug/bring him to our room but he was awake and wanted to be awake)
Nap 11:55-1:55 (tried to do an AM cn in the car but he didnt sleep. - he was just happy all along!!!??) I woke him at 2
Bt - i tried to take him in at 6:45 because he had such a big am, but he was just not tired and he finally slept at 7:35
Nws - brief at 11, 2, and then he was awake at 5 AM!!

Today
wu 5 AM once again I tried to get him to sleep by APOP, all sorts of things, but he wanted to get out and play
nap - 12:05-1:40 (he woke on his own - I tried to APOP back to sleep but he wanted out) - once again was happy all evening.
Bt - took him in at 6:55 fell asleep by 7:30
Nw - it is now 8:25

I have been trying to do naptime at 12:30 to see if that is going to help but it's impossible to there with all these early wakes and the refusal of car catnaps in the am.!!

But he is really fine and as usual, and normal during all his A times, doesn't show any signs of OT or unhappiness and in the morning when he wakes at 5 Am or whatever time he is once again as usual, singing, talking and wants to get up and play!!

I am resigned to thinking this is developmental.. he just turned 23 mo. though. Maybe the sleep regression thing is hitting early?? at least that's what i'm going to tell myself

[*Ali*]

I haven't read the whole thread but have popped over from the other thread we were chatting on via your link.

Have you tried wake to sleep for the 5am wakings?

I would not be doing a 2hr nap at 2yos tbh. Is that just something you are trying because you think he is OT now? I agree with Kara that I would hold the nap at a set time although I would probably choose 12 o clock so you have a decent A time to bed, especially with a 2hr nap. I think it is pretty normal to be getting a 10hr night if LO is having a 2hr nap at this age. That is still 12hrs of sleep. The only way we got a longer night was to cut the nap, first back to 1.5hrs and eventually back to 30mins although that final cut was when my DS1 was a good few months older than yours. We also got a gro clock to stop the EWs. Even though he didn't go back to sleep in the mornings to start with he would stay in bed until the sun came up (with our insistence) and then after a week or two he did start sleeping in again. He started sleeping 7pm to 7.45am every night (and still does) regardless if whether he had the 30 min nap or not. Now the nap is only ever in the car or on the sofa, normally later in the day.

Is he teething at all? We had 3 weeks of awful sleep around  the 23-24mo point and then I realised his canines had cut through and we were OK for a few months after that.

I think you are right that a lot of it probably is developmental and behavioural. I know you are having problems with him getting out of bed and I think if you do the GW we discussed on the other thread to get him comfortable going to sleep on his own without all the shenanigans again then he may well do the same when he rouses at the EW. That is certainly how it worked for us. For the NWs that started up during that period again too. The GW we did (well DH did - can you get your DH to do it ) lasted 2 months in total and we did about 2 weeks at each stage (by the bed, by the door, just outside the door and down the hall) he went from hours of destruction and hysteria at BT and refusing naps altogether to a completely independent sleeper again. It was well worth the effort. I expect you could do a week at each stage to get through it quicker. What do you think? 

[shresmummy]

Hey Ali, thanks for popping over

Before all the madness started we had a pretty set routine going

Wu 6/6:15
Nap 12/12:10 - 1:50 (I would wake him)
Bt - took him in at 7/7:10 he would mess around and sleep by 7:45/8 at the latest
Nw - would be minimal, very brief at 1 am, then again at 5 am but then after a quick cuddle go back to sleep till 6 or so,

Right now we are in a bit of a mess! And I don't know how to get  out it!!

I have been trying to hold the nap at a set time too.. But unfortunately with the ew, I think 12:30 as Kara suggested is not working out

So I'm planning to keep 12 as the time for the next few days.

He was up again at 5 this am...I tried to put him back to sleep but it was on/off till 6 am.

I am going to see what happens today if I go back to our old routine...and wake him at 1:50 what do you ladies think? He was napping on average 1h40 mins before...

It's so different with dd. She was very different and was doing 2h20 min naps and 10.5 hr night!! He I so different.,. Must be a second kid thing I think!! That's what I'm telling myself to make me feel better

[*Ali*]

If it were me I would cut the nap to 1.5hrs max and do a 7pm BT.

Was he going to sleep independently before the messing around started?

[Truly Blessed]

Hey Hun, just marking a place so your updates pop up for me, I'll be back later.x.

[shresmummy]

so today ended up like this

wu 5 am (sort of on/off till 6ish)
nap 12 - 1:40 (woke whining, went in to pick him up then he fell back asleep on my shoulder so I let him sleep till 2 then woke him)
bt - took him in at 7:10 he messed about again, chatting away and then fell asleep by 7:50ish

even if he has a 10 hr night I hope he wakes up properly at 6 am.. instead of this messy 5 Am business and then on/off till 6. That is getting to me now!

[ZacsMumme]

That day is so long, is holding the nap at 12/12.30 not helping WU?
I wonder if he's habitually waking, you could try w2s at 4 ?
You may need to even pull the nap back earlier, then gently push back closer to 12/12.30 to shift the day....

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Honey, I honesty think this sounds developmental, we had the same kind of thing soon after Sam turned 2 , I think you'll find it's regression and his nap may well turn to normal in the not too distant future.

x.

[Tatumsmom]

I think it does sound developmental! Logan turned two in the summer and I remember him going through about three weeks of  NW,ew and not wanting to go to sleep. I made the mistake of trying to keep him up later as I thought he was ut. It caused him to become really  ot. It wasn't until I added hours to his sleep that it got better.

I would try w2s for the NW as they sound like habit to me.

Logan's routine at 26 months is

W: 7:30
N: 1:00-4:00
Bt: 7:30

It took me a little while to figure out he has high sleep needs, and by me waking him and keeping him up caused ot. So for us sleep=more sleep.

Not saying everyone's lo needs that much sleep. But i think for yor lo between the NW and ew I think it started off as ot then he hit the developmental  age. So just be consistent and I bet you'll find he will go back to his usual routine and then you can work on improving his sleep.

[shresmummy]

Hi ladies, thanks for all your advice and support! I am convinced it dev now.

Thankfully he had a much better night and finally a decent wu.

I think allowing to sleep a bit more at nap yesterday helped as you said.

Last night, slept at 7:50 no nw till 12:30 then brief one but in his sleep he was whining it was morning and he wanted to open the door and go out! That's what made me think its developmental. Then he woke t 5:30 but he went back to sleep thank god! And woke at 6:25!!!

Should I maybe make nap at 12:15?

[shresmummy]

So yesterday eneded up

Wu 6:25 ish
Nap 12:15-1:45 woke on his own
Bed in at 7ish asleep before 8 (still monkeyed around though)
Nw brief one at 9:45 then slept through till 5:40am..!

He obviously didn't go back to sleep after he woke up though

Then today I did

Wu 5:40
Nap 12- 1:55 ( I woke up just before 2 ) because I fell asleep as well.
Bt took him in at 7:10 he fell asleep before 8 (kept playing about again but I just ignored him)

Don't know yet how the night will go.

Do the routines from these two days give you ladies any ideas asto what I should try next? Or just keep them the same maybe?

[*Ali*]

Only what I suggested in my previous posts really. To do w2s at 4am to hopefully get a later wake up and cap the nap at 1.5hrs.

If you start getting a later WU you could push the nap to 12.30.