Separation Anxiety/Getting over Illness - we are one big mess

[KimMackay]

Hello ladies,

Feeling a little desperate here.  I'm at my wits end after 2 weeks of 15 month old illness and mama being sick with DH out of town   PLEASE HELP!!!!

Here's the run down...

N is just over 15 months old and pre-illness was sleeping 1 nap a day (about 1h10-20 LSN) and STTN 11 hrs.  2 weeks ago everything started with a fever.  Had a fever for 7 days, after 3 days had ear infections in both ears, super congested and a nasty nasty cough....oh, and don't let me forget that he started getting all 4 of his molars.  I (of course) caught this about a week ago and all of this has been absolutely draining (especially with DH not here). 

Regardless of everything going on, I could still put him down awake for a nap and BT with no problems. Amazing!  Only problem I was having....is because he's such a poor napper, he doesn't sleep longer when he's sick and needs it...he sleeps less. Awesome.  So because he's so exhausted, he was literally falling asleep after being awake for 3 - 4 hours.  N has NEVER randomly fallen asleep outside of his room for nap (very alert, needs total darkness and white noise)....however passed out cold watching tv 3 hours after waking....that's how I knew this was bad.  So...we ended up with 2 nap days.

Now, he's almost himself again and can definitely handle being awake for longer so my goal was to start getting back on track.  Now he's suddenly screaming bloody murder when I go to put him down for a nap and BT.  He's been super clingy through this entire illness....like crawling all over me like he just couldn't get close enough to me.  He also ended up sleeping on me (a habit that took months and months to get over) some morning after incredibly EW's and for some catnaps.   

At BT I usually put him in the crib and then leave the room to get the bath ready.  He usually plays and roles around when I do this.....but now as soon as I go to put him down...SCREAMING.  He screams the entire time I'm getting things ready.  I try to pop in and out and talk so he can hear me....always reassuring that I'm still here. 

At BT He's screaming once I put down and leave the room....but stops just a couple minutes later.  However, naps have become my BIGGEST problem.  I've had to make multiple attempts with him just screaming before finally calming down and going to sleep.  This nap now lasts anywhere from 25 - 40 minutes because he's so OT by the time he falls asleep.  Because he's so easily distracted and needs his darkness.....the only type of sleep training that has worked in the past has been for me to leave him alone and let him figure it out.  I've tried everything because I hate leaving him to cry....but any interference from me makes things a thousand times worse.  The problem now is, I'm worried about this just adding to the SA he seems to be experiencing.  Do you think it sounds like SA?

I don't know what to do for him now....how to get him napping again and how do I get rid of the SA??? 

I'm so exhausted from all of this....I just need things to start heading up.  I'm still so sick....and haven't got any sleep.

PLEASE HELP!

Sorry for the long post....just trying to cover everything.

[becj86]

Sounds like SA to me, yes. Along with a mental leap which may ring a bell: http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php/about-the-wonder-weeks/your-babys-10-leaps/mental-leap-9

Here are some tips on SA: Tips for seperation anxiety

[KimMackay]

I've already been doing everything that is recommended and I know it takes time, but somebody must have some advice.  Yesterday he finally went to sleep after being in there for 15 min, but now today I'm on attempt 2 of him just screaming after practically being asleep while walking upstairs.  I didn't even get this much protest when I was sleep training him into the crib after sleeping on me for 8 months. 

If it's SA, should I be AP to sleep or should I be treating it like sleep training?

I've medicated incase his teeth are really bad...but nothing. 

I'm at such a loss with what to do now.

[*Becky*]

could you post your routine for us to take a look xx

[katie80]

Hi Kim, sorry you're having trouble again.

Because he's so easily distracted and needs his darkness.....the only type of sleep training that has worked in the past has been for me to leave him alone and let him figure it out.  I've tried everything because I hate leaving him to cry....but any interference from me makes things a thousand times worse.  The problem now is, I'm worried about this just adding to the SA he seems to be experiencing.  Do you think it sounds like SA?

I think that does sound like SA and even though interference makes things worse, it sounds like he needs reassurance.  Since he's been an independent sleeper before, have you tried WIWO?  That seems to be a great tool at this age for SA.  Walk In/Walk Out vs. The Gradual Withdrawal Method (HOW TO CHOOSE)

[KimMackay]

I've thought about it...but I know him, it's just too much stimulation. Because he needs that total darkness (and I mean to the point where we have a blanket hanging over the doorway to block out the tiny bit of light that could come around the frame) WIWO is going to be too much for him.  I may try just staying in the room.  I've done that before.....I don't make any noise, I just stay there. Maybe I will try that.

Today was horrific.  Our worst day with this yet.  It took 2 attempts to get a nap (because I have to leave him alone, I only let it go on 20-30 min before I take him out).  Finally fell asleep, slept for 35 min and woke up screaming.  I went in with the intention to extend it and let him sleep on me (only do this if he sleeps less than 40 min) but he just screamed.  So I took him out of his room....this made him even more upset.  He wanted to go back in.  So we went back and he just kept lifting up and pulling at my top (he is BF but we are down to just 1 feed in the morning...he doesn't nurse through the day).  He was so hysterical so I figured why not? There was probably nothing there.  So I sat down with him and he ended up passing out again.  He was so tired.  Shortly after he woke up.....we had a meltdown.  If I wasn't standing while holding him then he was down on the ground on all fours just whaling. This lasted about 40 minutes.  Rest of the day...just fine.  I swear I thought to myself "is he bipolar?"

Our days pre-illness...

WU - 5:30 - 6am
Nap - 11:30/45 - 1h10-20 on average (he's never been a long napper and he does just fine on this much) - no problems putting down - always went to sleep within a couple minutes
BT - asleep 6:30/45pm (on average 10h45-11hr night STTN)

Post-illness days are all over the place...

WU - 5 - 5:30am (has not done more than 10.5hrs since being sick)
Nap - was trying for 11:30am again, but was only ever falling asleep closer to noon so I started trying 11:45am
       - best day so far was when his WU was just before 5am, I gave him a CN 6:10 - 6:30am to hold him over until the nap and he only cried for a little and then sat in the crib for 10-15 min before lying down and going to sleep.
BT - asleep 6:45p/7pm

Things worth mentioning:
- sick for 2 weeks
- in the process of getting all 4 molars
- was taking 2 naps while in the thick of the illness (taking naps and going to bed on his own with no protest, like usual)
- prior to illness was nursing before BT but when his appetite dropped he wasn't interested.  After several days of not wanting to nurse before BT I figured we may as well keep it out.

[katie80]

It took 2 attempts to get a nap (because I have to leave him alone, I only let it go on 20-30 min before I take him out).

Are you saying you're leaving him to cry in there for 20-30min all by himself?  I don't think that's any different than CIO/CC, hon.  Is that the way you got him into his crib for naps in the first place?  The problem with that method is that if he's thrown off by illness/teething/general milestones, you often have to do it again and again to get back on track.  And it's really going to hurt the separation anxiety.

I think you're going to have to do some GW, staying in the room with him to build back trust.  My kids are textbook/spirited, so I've never dealt with a full on spirited and know that they often do need as little stimulation as possible, but he needs you right now and he needs you to help him learn how to go back to sleep on his own.  I actually think that if you do GW with him, it will help you be able to resettle naps in the future, because he will know that you're there to help him sleep when he needs to sleep more, not get him up.

Shortly after he woke up.....we had a meltdown.  If I wasn't standing while holding him then he was down on the ground on all fours just whaling. This lasted about 40 minutes.  Rest of the day...just fine.  I swear I thought to myself "is he bipolar?"

It's extreme OT.  I've had those experiences before with DD and they're awful.  She would flop around the crib like a fish out of water and I could not even really touch her or she'd get worse, but once it was over, she'd be fine.  (((Hugs)))

If I were you, I'd pull the nap back to closer to 5-5.5hr A and do a day no longer than 12-13hr.  I'd also medicate for teeth before nap and BT for a few days (up to a week is generally safe if you give only one dose of each med per day; i.e. one dose of acetaminophen, one dose of ibuprofen), but do what you're comfortable with.

[*Becky*]

I totally agree with Katie...it sounds like a mixture of teeth and OT. I wuld medicate when needed and try some GW to help him through. xx

[KimMackay]

As for medicating...I just can't anymore.  Started getting molars....medicated for a week, got sick and had a fever for a week....had to medicate that week, then more molar pain....more medication.  It's just been too much.  I asked my doctor and she said it was okay....but that much medication just makes me uncomfortable.

As for how I sleep trained him into the crib.....I stayed in the room and couldn't make a peep.  He hates interference, but I couldn't just leave him alone.  So even though it's completely pitch dark and I don't make a noise.....I think he still knows that I'm there.  I tried this to resettle when he woke....but it never worked.  Once he's up he's up.  Has never resettled after waking up and crying....ever lol.

As for the days that I leave him in there....he's never screaming his head off for 20-30 minutes.  If he's in there that long before sleeping, it's only because it's been more of a whining cry on and off or he's just been sitting or standing silent. 

Unfortunately we can't plan for 12-13 hour days because N doesn't tack onto his nights.  I could put him down early the odd time and he will tack on....but if I do it too much then our entire schedule shifts forward.  This is how we ended up with a 6:30pm - 5:15/30am night   and he has NEVER done a 12 hour night.

I will try putting down earlier and staying in the room.  Would you suggest staying in the room the entire time? I'm guessing yes....I'm going to have to sneak out though, because I've still got such a bad cough and I will just end up waking him if and when he falls asleep

Hopefully it's the OT that's been making everything worse.  If we could just get caught up.....

I've tried EBT a couple times through this illness and it's just been backfiring and then he's up for the day SUPER early.

[katie80]

I asked my doctor and she said it was okay....but that much medication just makes me uncomfortable.

I totally understand.  I don't like to use them too much either.  

Thanks for reminding me how you did sleep training, I didn't think you did CIO, but when you said he was hysterical and you just had to leave him to it, I got a little nervous, especially since he's having some SA.  I think if he's not screaming when you leave him in there, then I would just leave him to it.  If it's just a whining cry on and off, that sounds like either mantra or just protesting that he's not sleeping on you like he did while ill.  And if he's just sitting or standing silent, then let him fall asleep when he will; at least he's getting some rest.  As tired as he is and as frustrating as it is, unfortunately we can never make him sleep and if you go to get him out after 20-30 min when he doesn't really need you, then he's getting a mixed signal.  If he is screaming, then yes, I'd stay with him and do a GW type approach, just like you did last time. 

Have you ever tried a super EBT?  I know it's daunting and he's not a tacker, but the pattern of lots of toddlers on here lately is that EBT isn't quite enough to get rid of the OT hormones, so they end up doing a short night anyway.  But, it seems like a super EBT catches them before those hormones can interfere too much and they do tack.  I completely understand if you don't want to try it, but sometimes when things are so bad, I'm willing to try anything to see if it works.

(((Hugs))), it's no fun to deal with all of this, esp when you still don't feel well.

[*Becky*]

sure, it is your call re the meds. If he is teething 4 molars at a time then he is likely to need the meds that is all but I do understand as I don't like giving them unless absolutely necessary xx

[*Kara*]

Hi Kim -sorry that Rolie Polie Nolie is off course!

Sounds like he has had a rough go... I know completely what you mean about medicating for so long for so many things... it's hard to do.  But if I have to be perfectly honest, I don't think you should expect any decent sleep/independent settling if he is in pain.  Would you be okay with using something like Anbesol or Orajel to stop the pain for a short time in hopes he can go to sleep?

[KimMackay]

Well yesterday wasn't too bad....and then today, bad

Yesterday I stayed in the room for the nap....he cried a little and went to sleep shortly after.  BT was the same thing.  Today....I stayed in the room again, but he cried for 15 minutes and then BT was the worst yet, crying for quite some time.  He's really only been crying for a min or two at BT and then lying down....but today, it lasted for much longer   I feel like we're getting nowhere with this.

I don't think the teeth are giving him too much pain.  I haven't been medicating at BT and he's been just fine....and even for naps, the crying hasn't seemed to be an "in pain" cry...more of "i'm ticked" cry.

Totally scared of doing the super EBT.  May come to that we don't get some decent sleep here some time soon.

[Mattsmummy]

Hi Kim

I was thinking about your post last night and poor N.

Have you thought about trying something natural for his teeth?  I recommend Highlands Teething Tablets or Camillia.  Both you can get at Shoppers or any health food store.

I've used both and find they work very well - an option other than tylenol or advil (I understand your reservations)

I've posted a link to both...Just a thought...

http://boiron.ca/en/products/children/camilia/
http://www.hylandsteething.com/take-the-bite-out-of-teething/?gclid=CM_HhKqm9LMCFYZaMgod1gMA5Q

Hope he's feeling better soon and you can both get some sleep.  My DS M is a terrible teether as well...every tooth is a huge battle...

hugs...

[KimMackay]

We actually use Camilia...but tbh I don't think his teeth are bothering him too much right now.  I think combo of some severe separation anxiety and OT is our main problem.  I just can't seem to pull us out of the OT and it seems to be fuelling the SA.

I've had to APOP to extend his nap.  He's falling asleep (after crying) but not sleeping well.  Today he woke after 30 min....so I picked up and he slept 1h50 total (he NEVER sleeps that long for a nap).  Same thing happened yesterday and I thought "great...he's catching up a bit" and then we had a short night   So crossing my fingers that he does a better night after the nap today and maybe we can start heading in the right direction. 

I don't understand why we can't get back to our one nap?  He was super OT at the beginning of the transition....but I never had a problem putting down and he never slept shorter than 40 minutes.  Now....after the same amount of A time we're a mess.  It's been a while now....I would think things would be starting to improve by now. I hate APOP to extend his naps because I worry he will come to depend on it.