6 month old cot parties 3:45 - 4:30/5ish!! Help!!

[mrssat]

Hi all I dont post often, but I read regularly, normally I can find what I need in other posts and get on top of the problem but this time these NW's are not going away!
My DS is a great bub, very easy and laid back (most of the time).

For a little while now we have been battling with NW's. Around 4am ish, although could as early as 3:30 he wakes up. He doesnt cry initially he makes a noise 'ergh ergh ergh ergh.....' this can get quite loud at which point I will go in and re plug his dummy, he then makes a 'mm mm mm' noise which sounds like he is settling himself so I back off, he will seem like he his settled and then it will start again. He does laugh sometimes when I go to the cot, but he has been known to do this when settling himself down. Odd I know but he is a happy chappy.
Last 2 days I have suspected teething, but these NWs have been going on for a while now. Gave calpol last night.
I have just thought he woke at about 9:45 last night as well, but settled straight away.
In the end last night I stayed in his room and just put my hand on him, he settled again so I left, he then started to cry properly. I offered water and he took it. Popped him back in cot, and he went to sleep. I didnt hear from him again until 8am!! I would have woken him at 7 but I was out for the count!
I know he is not hungry when he wakes because he screams when he is hungry, I did feed him the other night when he woke, which he took, but he was still restless until the morn. Then he didnt take his morning bottle. So I really dont think its hunger.
Now his day time naps haven't been great. We battled with 45 min naps for a while but I am getting at least 1 good nap from him, normally the morn one. So I suspect his day sleep is the culprit for the bad night sleep.

Here is our rough EASY.
7-7:30 wake and milk feed
8:30 solids, fruit and cereal
9:45 nap 1.5 hrs.
11:15 up and milk feed.

He always seems tired in the afternoon, so I end up putting him down after about 2.5hrs a time, but he rarely takes a full nap.

1:45 ish nap 45 mins. Always try to resettle. Had success with pu/pd yesterday he stayed down for another 40 mins.

3/3:15 Up and milk feed
5 dinner solids veggies and BLW
6 bath time start bed routine.
6:45 bottle bed and normally asleep by 7

DF 10:30/11

So is there any tweaking to be made? These NW's are such a pain!!

We have not introduced a solid lunch yet, but should be doing so soon. He has taken to solids really well.
Thanks in advance to anyone who can sneak a peak at my (not so) EASY.
xxx

[Erin M]

I'd say that you need to increase your A times a touch -- has he just turned 6 months or has he been six months for a few weeks (they do some pretty crazy A time jumps in that month)!  What I see from your EASY is that he's got an A time of somewhere between 2.15/2.45 (depending on WU time) first thing in the morning, 2.5 for the second and then 4 hours (or more) until BT.  Now, some babies do like a longer A to bed (mine always did) but there's a huge discrepancy there (especially on what is normally a short nap).  What is your first A time usually?  Does it make a difference in the nap if it's 2.15 or 2.45?  Since he's so tired during that second A I suspect you probably want to get a longer, more restorative nap out of him for your first nap -- which will hopefully lengthen your second a touch and give you a longer nap there as well (and shorten your A time to bed).
What do you think?

[mrssat]

HI Erin thank you for your reply. After last night we need all the help we can get!
We had a busy day yesterday so he really didnt nap well at all. He was in bed and asleep by 7. 9:45 he woke and all hell broke lose. He screamed and I mean scream for an hr. I had given him meds for his teeth so I couldnt do anymore there, he was so bad at one point I took his clothes off to see if something was hurting him! (He is my 2nd bub BTW, not a 1st timer ha ha ha) He settled in the end with his mobile music and a cuddle. I DF at 10:30 as usual. He seemed like he was going down, but then at about 11 screaming again. He ended up in bed with me and hubby on the sofa - oops! I dont know how my DD did not wake up, she slept through it all.
I have to tell you this boy does not cry! So it was quite alarming. He is defo teething and seems to be a bit sniffly this morn so I hope he is not coming down with something.
He was fitful through the night but made it until 7 without anymore major melt downs.
I defo agree we need to push the A times. I think I have been too inconsistent with the amount of A time I give, I think he could manage 2.45hrs so I think I will stick with that for a few days and see how it goes. For both A times. Although it might not work if he is getting ill and teething!
Does that sound ok?
OH the joys eh. Just want one decent nights sleep!
Thanks so much!

[Erin M]

The A times should help even if he is teething, if he's sick you'd probably need to pull back a bit.  I'd definitely see how 2.45 goes for a few days.  Poor little guy, hope he feels better!

[mrssat]

Well last night was no better really...but yesterday naps were a bit better. I put him down for his am nap after 2hr45 he was settled - i think asleep when my 3 yr old stood outside his door and had a tantrum for no reason! I was livid with her but I think because me and her dad are so tired she is not getting the time with us she usually does. Anyway, I peeked in on him and he was awake but laying there quietly. I left him, then a few mins later he was crying. I went and settled with dummy and a rub and he fell asleep. It was a strange nap, he woke and settled a few times through out and finally got up at 11:15 which was 1.5hrs after he went down. I suspect the screaming fit disturbed him and he got OT.
He refused his 11 am bottle.
Took DD to nursery pm and on the way home he was drifting asleep in the pushchair (this was only 2hrs a time after nap 1) I kept talking to him to keep him awake, we were only 2 mins from home. I managed to keep him up for about 20 mins more then put down. He settled, but woke crying after 10 mins, I settled and he slept for 1hr30mins (about) I sat in the room with him while he slept and he woke at the 45 min mark but just rolled over and went back to sleep. So his wake up time was 3:30 which then left 3.5hrs until bed. Which is an improvement.
I was at college last night so DH did bed time. He wasnt that into his milk only had about 3 ozs and went straight to sleep.
He then woke at 9:45 (as he had the prev night!) I re plugged dummy and he went back to sleep, but betwenn 9:45 - 10:30 he was unsettled but not crying so I left him when I went to DF at 10:30 he was dozing. He woke when I picked him up to feed.
He guzzled DF and gave meds for teeth. Put him back down and he took a mo to settle but was fine.
Then.....2:30 - 4:30 he was unsettled. He didnt really cry until 4ish so I left him, in this time I slept on and off and I think he did as well as there were definite periods of quiet. When he cried I went into reassure him and he slept until 7:50! My DD woke me at 7:45 and he was still asleep we went to wake him and he was difficult to stir - he was sound asleep!! I dont like this sleeping in, with the bad nights I am just exhausted and not waking either! My DH gets up at around 7 and I didnt even hear him, he got the blame for not waking me this morn. He just wanted to let me sleep though, they cant win. 
Teething is defo going on and a little cold. I will will hold the a times for a few days and have all fingers crossed!

[dlhson]

Hello,

Totally relate to your experience with your LO. We're having a 6.75month baby who has the same patterns as your DS. We're not sure about teething though. Please update your progress so other people including us can learn.

Thanks and best wishes.

[mrssat]

Oh dlhson, its tough isnt it! I am finding it really useful writting these posts as there are giving me a better over view of times and things. His am nap went well, had to pu/pd after 1 hr wake up but got another half hr out of him after 20 mins. What I am trying to do is stick to a times for a few days as previously I have not been consistent with this, going more on his tired signs which seem to be misleading. He looks tired for ages before he is ready to go down.
Yeah the teething is horrible, my DD cut teeth with ease, they would just appear. He is pulling his gums shouting and is such a dribbly drawers poor little man.
I was very smug about sleep for the 1st 4 months all change now though!
I will defo post our progress.
Hope your LO gives you some solid rest soon! GL with it all.
 

[mrssat]

Hi all thought I would update.......I think we are seeing and improvement! I dont want to get too excited but since pushing a times out the nights have improved slightly. He woke at about 3 last night, but settled he then woke later at I think 4 (I was to blurry eyed) he was a little wild in his cot, arms going mad and making lots of noise, I thought here we go! But I re plugged and put some firm hands on him he settled! Woke up at 7:30 ish. So still not great but much better!
Naps have improved. His am one was great today 1.5hours, he went down fine for pm one, but woke at 45mins. I PU/PD, and put some firm hands on him and he settled for another hour or so. He woke at 4:35 so the a time between then and bed was shorter again. He went to bed fine so fingers crossed we are moving in the right direction. I hope.
Teething and snots have subsided and the little monster gobbled some lunch today, so I guess we will be introducing that now.
He really is an angel babe (prob more textbook according to BW, but an angel to me!) I know he is capable of sleeping well. These months 6-8 seem to be a busy time for these bubas.
Hope you are all getting the rest you need it makes me such a better parent. DH gave me a lovely lay in this morn, he is so good like that (I have high sleep needs!), his turn tomorrow.
Wishing you all a restful night. x

[dlhson]

Mrssat, this is absolutely encouraging news for you guys and your DS (and your DD as well of course )! The routine looks quite solid now for him. Just a few wrinkles to be ironed out. Hope you guys can keep it up. Now with some extra rest from these improvements, I'm sure you can do it! We're dreaming about ours and hope it'll come soon enough before the teething.

Take care and wishing you a restful night as well!

[mrssat]

Hi all just thought I would update in case others out there come across my post and need help themselves.
He is doing much better. I would love to say we have emliminated all NW's but we havent! However we are not being kept up for long stretches, he is waking and settling straight away with a re plug of the dummy. Which I fear has become a prop, only when he wakes in the night. He is happy to sleep when its not in, he just wants it to settle him when he wakes.
Every night has been a little better than the last. No more cot parties.
I have pushed his A time right out and he needs about 2.45-3 hrs in the morn and a little less in the afternoon 2.30-2.45 this is working out good and giving him long naps of 1.5-2hrs. No more 45min nap monster! He did a 45 min nap on sunday for the pm nap (we were out and about) so I gave him a wee cat nap - I was surprised he went down, but he was pooped without his full nap.
We are moving in the right direction, he seems tired in the day so much earlier than when he is ready to go down which is why I was getting his A time so wrong. Also I found writting things down and keeping a close track on things have really helped. I will continue to do so until we are fully out of the woods.
I think he has defo taken a huge leap in A time recently which is bang on time as he is 6 months.
I will continue to update progress (lets hope we make more)!
Hope your LOs are giving you the rest you need, its so tough when your exhausted. The last straw for me was when my 3 yr old said, 'mummy why arent you smiling' I have been so tired for about 2 months because of these NW's! I felt terrible when she said that and knew I had to take action. Thank god for this website!

[Erin M]

Nice work!  When he wakes at night looking for the paci, I would work on guiding his hand to the paci and helping him put it back in himself.  Eventually he'll get the idea (and make sure you've got plenty in the crib for him to find).

[mrssat]

Oh great idea. His motor skills are very good so i bet it wouldnt take long for him to learn. Thank u! X

[Erin M]

Excellent!  None of mine ever took a paci, but I've heard that learning how to replug is a great step, just leave a bunch of pacis in the corners of his crib where he'll know where to find them.

[dlhson]

Congratulations mrscat! Keep it up!

Our situation, in contrast, is getting worse and worse.

[mrssat]

Hi dlhson, so sorry its not getting better! Well last night was bad for us as well. So seems we might have some regression or he is changing his A time again!
I feel terrible but last night I was thinking I cant wait for this phase to be over, I dont want to wish this precious time away but I know this wont last for ever.   
I am gonna stick to the A times today and see how it goes.
Hope you see an improvement soon and you both get the rest you need. Keep looking after your girls sounds like you are doing amazing.
Hugs

[dlhson]

Hello mrscan,

Just want to drop a note to get you some support. As you said, changing the routine is not something the LOs can adapt to just in a couple of days. Just keep it up and after a week or two, and I hope you will see a promising pattern emerge!

Have a nice weekend and take care!

[Erin M]

I feel terrible but last night I was thinking I cant wait for this phase to be over, I dont want to wish this precious time away but I know this wont last for ever. 

I remember this feeling well, (((hugs))))
Keep at it, shifting A times is tough on everyone!