6.75month old horrible sleeper

[jzozmom]

First here is my EASY

6am breastfeed
8am nap (this nap she may sleep 1.5 hr)
9:30 breastfeed
10 to 10:30 eat solids
11:30 to 12 down for second nap ( usually fights this one)
1 starts crying try pu/pd for 20 mins
1:20 breastfeed
1:50 eat solids
3:30 rarely takes third nap
5 breastfeed
5:30 sometimes eats another bit of solid food
7 breastfeed
7:30 bed

Ok so this schedule is the typical way our day pans out.  Basically she has been a horrible sleeper from the start.  She struggled to gain weight at first.  Born 8# lost a # now only 15# at 6.75 months.  She is amazingly easy going for getting so little sleep.  But that said she fights sleep so much.  Her awake times she is happy except for evening time then she wants to be held more.  But even then not too fussy.  Naps are 45 min to 1.5 hr with a rare 2hr morning nap I think when she just can't fight it.  She still wakes 3 times a night and I usually have to feed her to get her to calm down and go back to sleep.  Sometimes she lets me give her a paci  and she will settle but that is rare.  Reason for early wake time is school run.  Doctor has me adding formula to mix in to her solid foods to add calories as she is a little behind with growth. 

So from what I am reading here I am wondering if I should stretch A times?  I put her down at 1.75 hr to 2 hr because she seems tired, but she fights sleep so much.  Pu/pd has never worked, ever.  Pat/shh worked when she was younger but now seems to tick her off.  Any suggestions. 

[Erin M]

So from what I am reading here I am wondering if I should stretch A times? 

This would be my first thought.  You want to be at about 2.45-3 hours at this point.  She's also got a really long day because of the early wake time -- can you put her to bed earlier to balance out your day?  (If you could get 2 decent naps in her, you'd probably be ok with a 13 hour day, but the 13.5 hour day on top of your short naps is probably causing a lot of your NWs.)

About her NWs -- are they happening at the same times each night?  Could hunger be a possibility for some/all of them?  I know at that age, my ds was dong a dream feed plus a night feed, which he continued to need until nearly a year.  I know that not all babies need night feeds at that age, but there are still a fair number that do genuinely need to eat.  What is she doing when she wakes? Crying?  Playing around? 

[jzozmom]

Thanks Erin for your thoughts.  As far as the night wakings go she wakes up crying.  I usually go ahead and feed her since she usually goes back to sleep without fighting it if I feed her.  This last week though she continues to cry even after a feed sometimes.  She tends to wake around the same time.  The frustrating thing is that she goes longer between feeds during the day than at night.  So between the poor nap and the waking and wanting to eat anywhere from every 1.5 to 3 hours, I am exhausted. 

I am going to try to stretch the Awake time during the day and see if I can't put her to bed a little earlier at night and try that a couple of days.  For now I will feed her when she wakes at night so I am not changing too much for her.

[Erin M]

That's a good first step and will hopefully help your nights get better.  Check back and let us know how you're doing.

[jzozmom]

Ok, so far I have stretched the A time to 2.5 hr, partly because she just seems tired and partly because of school pick up schedule.  It has only been one full day though I did also extend the second half of that first day. She had a better first nap for sure.  About 1.5 hrs.   The second nap still only 1 hr but it is something.  Night time she still had 3 wakings and I fed her.  Will keep this up and keep you posted.  If anyone else has any suggestions I appreciate it I know it will take some time for her to get used to this.  I may try to extend just a little longer and see how that goes.   

[Erin M]

That's a really good start!  What time were your wakings?

[jzozmom]

Uggh, woke up at 10, 1:20, 4:17, 5:35 and 6:50.  Oh and she got a 1.5 hr nap but didn't take second nap.  I couldn't even hold her to go to sleep.  So I think she just goes back and forth between UT and OT. 

[Erin M]

So I think she just goes back and forth between UT and OT. 

Yeah, this is actually pretty common when you're trying to find the "right" A times to extend to.  You end up with a shorter nap first thing because of UT and then that gets you in an OT spiral for the rest of the day. 

There are some sample routines here:
chronological EASY samples, 4-6 months
(though these might be of more help since you're so close to 7 months)
chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months

that you can look at.  Sometimes it helps to have an idea of what to aim for.

[jzozmom]

 Thanks Erin, I will look over those. Last night awake at 11, 2:20, 4:15, 5 and then I got her up at 6 to start our day.  She only got 1 good nap yesterday as well, but we had church and that threw off nap times a bit.  School drop off and pick up really throw a wrench in the day.  She won't stay asleep in the car seat if I have to move her inside so stretching her A time gets tough.  I need to either get her nap in before pick up which is what I am doing now or stretch it until after.  Waiting in the carpool line is just long enough that she will fall asleep and then it will only be a catnap when we move inside and she wakes.  On a good note, she really is a sweet girl despite her lack of sleep.  I on the other hand really could use some extra zzz's. 

[Erin M]

School drop off and pick up really throw a wrench in the day. 

Ugh, I hear you.  I suffered through that for all of last year, and I remember it being rough at this age.  Do you get one decent nap in for the morning?  I tried to focus on that the best I could and then the afternoon one was generally something of a disaster (always fell aslep on the way to/from school and generally woke when we got home).  I just pushed through the best I could and he honestly got better with dealing with being OT after awhile. 

[jzozmom]

She has never really been consistently good at getting a nap.  There have been days with one good nap and one ok one.  Today she is fighting her first nap the whole time.  Woke at 40 mins and I have to keep going up to settle her.  Pretty much as soon as she settles she starts crying again.  I seriously don't get why she doesn't just give in.  And how she can bee relatively ok with so little sleep.  She cries when she is hungry, wet or if I want her to sleep.  This is my 4th although there were 7 years in between this one and the last.  My other 3 settled into an EASY without much trouble.  This one hates sleep. 

[Erin M]

It's so tricky sometimes.  FWIW, your 4th really sounds like my 3rd -- I couldn't ever get him to consistently get him to take decent naps until we transitioned to 1 nap around 1 year.  My guess is that she probably needs some more A time before that first nap (though once again, I was right there with you at that age with my ds -- I always knew he needed more A time, but we could never quite extend those times to where they needed to be to get a good nap) and then you'll at least get one good nap in.  I know with me, I always felt like he'd be tired enough to take a decent second nap, but that one was always in the middle of our PM school run so it was never long enough.  Despite my not very optimistic BTDT advice (sorry!), I would keep working on that first A time to see if you can get a decent first nap.  It really will help things if you can get there. 

[jzozmom]

Now dd is getting into a new habit of waking around 9 or 10pm.  So I feed her then.  The weird thing is I have extended her A times to 2.5 hr.  Any longer and she is definitely cranky and showing tiredness like rubbing eyes and yawning.  Naps are still 45 min, sometimes i can settle by putting a paci in and get her to 1.5 hr nap for one of her naps.  But she only gets 1 good nap.  She rarely will take a catnap at night.  I looked at a lot of schedules and noticed many put baby to bed between 6 and 7 pm and I was doing more like 7 to 8 pm.  So I extended A times and moved bedtime up.  She goes down easy at bedtime, she definitely seems tired.  But now the early evening waking added to waking every 2 to 3 hrs. 

Last night I fed at 9pm when she woke up wide awake and ready to play.  She woke 11:30, 12:40 and 2.  I used paci at 11 and 12 because she got a full feed at 9.  Fed at 2 and she slept until 5:30 which is better since she normally wakes at 4 and 5.  I fed her at 6 and now we are getting ready for school. 

I guess to me this looks like it was UT then OT.  Now that I am extending A and she is definitely tired maybe she is just OT.  I might try a short catnap after school and see what happens.

[Erin M]

I'd try it and see.  Wakings not too long after BT are usually OT ones (though I'm also wondering if she's adjusting a bit to all the newness in her schedule).

[jzozmom]

Yesterday this is how our schedule fell:
E 6am BF
A 2 hr 50 min solids at 7:30
S 8:50 to 10 woke crying couldn't be settled
E 10 BF
A 2 hr 10 min solids at 11:15.  Rubbing eyes and fussing at 12:10 so put her down for nap
S 12:10 to 1:10 on the dot woke more fussing not full out cry, tried to see if she would self settle, 10 mins later full on cry.
E 1:20 BF
A 2 hr 40 min here she was so fussy and tired but wouldn't go down for nap
E 4:00 BF
S fell asleep BF for about 40 min
E Solids at 4:40 BF at 6:00
S Bed at 6:30
E woke at 9:20 wide awake so BF and put back down still awake but didn't fuss.
NW  woke at 12 crying settled her with paci, took about 15 mins and put her back down almost asleep.
 NW at 3 BF and put her back down asleep
EW 5:30 gave paci and snuggled her to stretch to 6am wake and start day.

So yesterday seemed straight OT to me.  And she only got about hour long naps.  I am sure Erin you are right about adjusting to her new schedule but at the same time she really hasn't been on a true schedule since her sleep has always been bad.  She is starting to have some SA when awake.  If I put her in the playyard with toys and step away she is not happy even if she can hear me in kitchen. 

Today we go for a weight check since she is still lagging behind.  Wondering if the quality of my milk is some of the issue, although she will go 4hr between nursing during the day even before we started solids. Just night time she wants to be up every 2 to 3 hr.