6.75month old horrible sleeper

[jzozmom]

Another bad night.  Naps slightly better.  Bed at 6:30, up at 12am, 2, 2:45, and 4.  I fed her at 12 because she was screaming.  She screamed at all the other NW's too.  Oh and woke crying at 5:40 but I stretched her to 6 am feed.  So tired.

[Erin M]

Hmm...what could be going on?  Have you ruled out all sources of discomfort?  I'm sorry, I feel like we're going round and round in circles here without things getting much better.  Let me see if I can get some other eyes on this.

[becj86]

Hi,

Erin's asked me to have a look at your thread and see if I have anything to suggest. Unfortunately I'm not full of answers at the moment... just a lot of questions and info.

I do wonder about discomfort. Now this could be from several different things - here are a few:
* teething?
* reflux - here's some info on symptoms: Reflux 101 - General reflux information Just that a few things through your thread ring bells for me - low weight gain, wanting to be held upright, waking frequently in the early hours of the morning... Do you see any of the behaviours in this list day-to-day?
* gut damage from oversupply - I had oversupply and DS was getting mostly foremilk which travels through the gut very quickly and can cause damage from the excess sugars in the milk. This can (did in DS' case) result in slow weight gain if LO is particularly active. DS used up all his sugars moving and screaming and didn't store them which is what happens to babies who gain really fast with an oversupply. I saw you questioned the quality of your milk - this is something I did back then too. My milk is fine and once I dealt with the oversupply issue, DS went from gaining 20-30g(1oz)/week to gaining over 1lb per week for a month or so then settled down. What are her poos like? What were they like before you started solids?

I think early on, there was definitely OT involved in this poor sleep. Now though, she's more rested and still not sleeping which suggests there's maybe something else going on.

[jzozmom]

Thanks Erin and Becj for trying to help me.  Here are some answers to your questions.

As far as teething goes, I wonder that because of her age but no profuse drooling, no nubs that I can feel and she really is pleasant during the day.  I would think she would be more cranky all the time.  Really the only time she fusses is when she needs diaper changed, hungry, or I want her to sleep and she doesn't.

On reflux, she is on nexium.  Now she was a very spitty baby, and I see how this could be an answer except that again she doesn't fuss when she is laying down playing, unless it gets old and she wants a change in scenery.  At first we tried elevating her bed but she was even worse with sleep.  Honestly I am giving her the nexium because the zantac didn't make a difference, it sometimes felt like she was more spitty on it than off, and I really hoped her sleep would get better if reflux was the main culprit. 

On oversupply not sure.  Her poo before solids was peanut butter consistency normal color but she sometimes went a week between.  Dr. had me give her added water for constipation but we eventually thought she was so active she just used all she got and that was also why she wasn't gaining.  After solids, a little more frequent but still may go several days, harder and she seems to really have to work at it.  Giving apple juice and water per doctor for constipation. 

She really is a puzzle because she may be the most easy going baby of my 4 when awake.  Far and away the worst sleeper.  All my kids were spitters, none have taken meds til now.  we had an upper GI and it was normal.  She also had barium swallow, normal. 

Yesterday good naps.  NW at 1, 2:45, 3:45 and 5:20.  I fed at 3:45 other times calmed with paci.

Thank you again for trying to help me, I feel bad complaining since she is so sweet, I just need to get some sleep!  Hopefully you can see something in my answers that stands out. 

[jzozmom]

Tried a little formula, only about a half an ounce after BF before  bed.  It seems like I don't hear as much swallowing at that last feed.  Bed 6:45, woke 11:45 popped in paci, woke 2:40 and BF, woke 6am!  Ok so it's not through the night but my best night in awhile.

[ENMS]

Hey there,

Yay for a good night!

Do YOU think reflux is an issue? What does the dr say? The barium swallow showed absolutely no reflux? How long has she been on the Nexium? Have you seen any difference at all since then?

Have you read the reflux 101 link that bec posted? LO's can have reflux even if they will happily lay on the floor - I know my DS did. They don't all show the same symptoms, that is what makes it so much more complicated!

[jzozmom]

Hi Elise,
     BS and upper GI all normal, no reflux.  However she spits up all the time.  Better since we started solids.  Nexium for 1 month Xantac before that and no real difference that I can notice on or off.  I have read on reflux and she has signs like spitting up and slow weight gain.  But my first son spit up way more than her and gained weight easily.  I had trouble with my milk coming in at first this time, I am older and wonder if the quality of milk is an issue.  And in the evening she isn't swallowing as much so I end up feeding her sometimes twice an hour apart before bed.  I would't be surprised if reflux is the culprit but even with treatment she isn't improving as far as sleep goes at night.  She is doing much better for naps.  Also half of the time I find her rolled over on her stomach when she is sleeping and I would think that would help the reflux part of it. 

Thank you all for your feedback.  It is really helpful. 

[becj86]

Have you looked into food intolerances at all?

[ENMS]

bec has a good point. often food intolerances can cause reflux and cause discomfort - often atnight. it could be worth a try?

[jzozmom]

Hmmm, I haven't noticed anything she eats.  If it is something I eat, she must hate my whole diet.  I don't eat grains and no milk but I do eat a lot of cheese.  Maybe I will cut that and see.  Don't I have to wait 2 weeks for dairy to leave my system? 

Last night she woke at 12, 2:45(BF), and 5:45 but since it is Saturday I gave her a paci and she slept until 7:45.  So I am sure today will throw everything off but I needed a later morning for once. 

[*Kara*]

I would cut dairy and soy (basic and hidden sources) for 2 weeks and see what happens hun... most mommas will notice a difference in as little as a few days if this is the cause...

[jzozmom]

Just wanted to update.  Naps are doing better.  But nights we are still up about 3x.  I usually feed her only one of those and the other times I just comfort her so she will go back to sleep.  Not sure if I should try to avoid the night feeds altogether.  She is 7.5 months old now.  I am on a 4hr schedule until the end of the day when her 4th BF usually comes after 3hr and then I do another BF at the 4hr mark before bed.  She usually doesn't seem to be getting as much out of those 2 feeds so I have been supplementing formula after I nurse if she wants it.  I think by the end of the day my supply is low.  The doctor has me adding formula to her solid foods for extra calories so I figured supplementing after I nurse probably won't hurt my supply.  She is gaining weight much better over the last month and a half.  One reason I am tempted to try to skip the night feed is that my supply seems best at that feed and the first 2 feeds of the day.  I am wondering if I put off the night feed if my daytime supply would be better?  I don't want to wean her yet but if part of her weight and sleep issues are my milk quality/supply I think I would rather she gain weight and sleep better than worry about my desire to nurse for the full first year.  I am presuming that her sweet disposition means she just may not need as much sleep, but I can't see how a good solid night time sleep wouldn't be better for her than being up 3x a night. 

Thanks for reading my rant.  Hope the rest of you mommies are doing well.

[becj86]

  One reason I am tempted to try to skip the night feed is that my supply seems best at that feed and the first 2 feeds of the day.  I am wondering if I put off the night feed if my daytime supply would be better?

This may be a question for the Breastfeeding board: Breast Feeding. To my knowledge and in my experience, dropping a night feed won't help your daytime supply. You DD at this age may still need a night feed.

What's your EASY now and when in the night does she wake?

[jzozmom]

E 6am BF
A play and then solids around 730 after school run
S 8-10
E 10 BF
A until about 12 or 1230 depending on whether she is showing sleepiness.  Also solids around 1030 or 11.
S 12 or 1230 until 130  to 145
E 130 or 145 BF
A until bedtime. 
E 5 BF and solids
S BF and 2 oz formula around 6.  Bed between 630 and 715 depending on when we get dinner all squared away, bath, pj's etc

She wakes usually sometime in the 12 o'clock hour, 2 o'clock and 5 o'clock  hour.  Sometimes she will skip one of those but she is up at least 2x.  If she skips 2'oclock she will wake at 3 or 4 and I feed her then.  Otherwise I feed her at 2 o'clock waking.  I haven't tried skipping that feed because I am afraid she will just wake every hour until I feed her.  She usually nurses vigorously at this feed but quickly, say 10 min total.   

[becj86]

Its probably worth increasing her A times up to somewhere around 2hr45-3hr gradually and see if that helps the night sleep. She's got an enormous A time at the end of the day and really short ones in the morning - its usually best to have a more balanced day.