Author Topic: 6 months old spirited baby self settling problem (Read 6416 times)

tweetie · « **on:** December 03, 2012, 07:41:35 am »

Hi to everybody. First I need to say that I am very happy that I discovered this forum and it helped me a lot (I apologize for my english but I am not a native speaker

I have spirited baby which was great with sleeping up to 3,5 month. At evening I would put her in the crib turn on the tommy star and she would fall a sleep. During the day I would need to rock her but everything was predictable and she would fall a sleep. In her 4 month everything went downhill when sleep regression started, she could not sleep during the day, would be awake few hours each night (in different times)... Thanks to this forum I solved sleeping during the day (more or less

and we passed NW. She still have EW but for me at this time point self settling is the biggest problem which became worse with teething (yesterday the second came out). I am not going to say that she started to sleep in our bed during night (last few weeks

). If she is not irritated and ok she will sleep in the crib but if teeth or winds are bothering her she wants to be close to me (she exactly knows that she is in our bed - does not need to be exactly next to me

). Ok regarding self settling - short wind down does not work at all, long wind down at evening is around 1,5 hr and she is kicking, screaming, crying, nothing could calm her even rocking does not work always. When I left her in the room she immediately starts to protest and then cry (I noticed separation anxiety within last month), I could sit next to her for two hours she can not fall a sleep, and then she is more and more tired, restless, kicking, crying screaming ... Then I rock her because I know it will be mess - she will end up to be OT and wake up whole night. shh path does not work - she laugh at that

or if she is irritated then she becomes even more, PU/PD - no way, swaddling - depending on situation, usually in the final phase. Any ideas? Thank you

jessmum46 · « **Reply #1 on:** December 03, 2012, 12:29:37 pm »

Your English is great!!

Could you post what your current routine (or what you are aiming for) is like? It may be that she is needing a change in routine which is why you are having a lot of problems settling her. She is at the age when babies start to drop from 3 naps to 2 which may also be a factor

If you post your routine I'm happy to have a look and see if we can improve things for you.

Are you still rocking her to sleep for naps and bedtime?

tweetie · « **Reply #2 on:** December 03, 2012, 16:05:42 pm »

Thank you

. I am aiming to 4 hr EASY even though she is very often hungry after 3,5 hr or sometimes even after 3 so I feed her. Another thing - she became more interested for the environment than eating during the day and started to eat during the night each 4 hr (in the past there was one feeding around 2 am and another around 6 am and it was pretty consistent, without DF just regular one around 7 pm). I tried to feed her more times during the day but she is not interested or she would just have a snack

. Regarding sleeping she has two naps (first 1-1,5 hr; the second up to 1,5 hr, CN 30-45 min (I am "buying" it in Baby Bjorn outside in most cases-this is in ideal situation). Since her EASY is pretty modified (depending on her sleep) I tried to get rid of CN and put her in bed earlier i.e. 6.30 pm - it would be big fight to fall a sleep and then she would wake up few hours later crying. I will write EASY from the last week (last three day were mess because the second tooth was coming out):

---WED----------------------THUR--------------------------FRI
W 6.04 AM------------------7.25 AM----------------------6.50 AM
E 6.06 AM-------------------8.07---------------------------6.51
A
S 8.15 (1.45 hr) -----------9.57 (1.18 hr)--------------9.06 (1.05 hr)
E 10.16 ---------------------11.15-------------------------10.14
A
S 12.40 PM (1.24 hr) ------1.54 PM (1.35 hr)--------1.21 PM (1.25 hr)
E 2.29-------------------------3.41--------------------------2.48
A
CN 5 PM (30 min)-----------5.19 (30 min)---------------no CN
E 5.37-------------------------7.10 PM------------------------5.38 PM
E 7.29
BT 8.17 PM--------------------8.15 PM-----------------------6.15 PM

E 0.53 AM---------------------11.17 PM------------------11.47 PM (after that she slept 30 min and was awake 1,5 hr)
4.36 AM----------------------3.04 AM--------------------5.10 AM (after that did not sleep till 7 AM)

Today

W 6 AM
E 7.42
S 8.52 (1.27 hr)
A
E 11.11
S 1.20 (1.06 hr)
E 2.43
CN 4.56 -- I am modifying post day after just to to complete the view on the last EASY

she slept 30 min
BT was 7.20 but she was waking each hour fussing or crying so I took her in my bed - then she went back to sleep pretty fast (that is typical when I put her earlier in bed with or without CN)
Because of that I did DF 10.10 but she ate again at 2 AM and WU at 6.50 AM

edit: for the first two naps today I did not rock her I just took her in my arms to finish. For the CN o yes and I know for the BT it will be even worse. However even if I start immediately rocking it does not work - I need to catch "the right moment". I am trying to avoid rocking as much as I could

tweetie · « **Reply #3 on:** December 03, 2012, 16:23:27 pm »

one more thing

she is BF , I started to introduce solids three weeks ago but she is not thrilled at all and refuses it or just try some tiny amount

jessmum46 · « **Reply #4 on:** December 04, 2012, 13:06:50 pm »

Don't worry about solids at this age - just for fun! Milk is the most important

I think you're well into the 3-2 nap transition actually. You have a lot of naps between 45 mins to 1h25 which would indicate UT and needing more A time, which may be why she is having trouble settling-shes just not tired enough. The way to approach it is to gradually add 10-15 mins to her A time every few days until you reach 3 hours. There will come a time (around 2h45 A time) where the day is too long for 2 naps or too short for 3. You can either skip the catnap, and go for an early bedtime around 6/6.30pm, or do a really short 10-15 min catnap in the sling, stroller etc just to get you to bedtime. Some over tiredness is inevitable but if you keep pushing through with longer A times you will get there.

There's a support thread here Anyone want to talk about the 3-2 Nap transition? Part 2

tweetie · « **Reply #5 on:** December 04, 2012, 16:04:21 pm »

thank you very much for taking time and help

I have read about transition and started to work on extending A time just I wasn't aware that that could be the reason of self settling problem. I will start from there and see how it will go...

jessmum46 · « **Reply #6 on:** December 04, 2012, 19:46:40 pm »

Great let me know how you get on

tweetie · « **Reply #7 on:** December 09, 2012, 03:30:02 am »

Here I am situation look much better thank you

but I have again few questions (or do you want me to post it on the nap transition 3-2?). Here is the summary: first day morning nap 1.44 hr and afternoon 30 min (BT 6.25 PM), second day morning 1.10, afternoon 2.25 hr, third day morning 30 min (I assume neighbours woke her up) and 3 hr afternoon (first two hours were outside we got so much snow so I could not resist). BT is 8 pm and WU 8 am.
Still we have waking and crying each evening from 8.30 to 11 pm (I assume OT?).
This night she is awake from 2.30 am (already 2 hr) so I am having my coffee and writing this

(is this the consequence of short nap in the morning - 30 min and the long one in the afternoon -3hr?)

When I put her in her crib after 2.5 hr of A time she does not freaking out anymore

and it takes her half an hour to settle (it is not bad but still she can not fall a sleep and I end up rocking

but it goes very fast now.

jessmum46 · « **Reply #8 on:** December 09, 2012, 10:02:05 am »

Can you post the whole day in EAS format so I can see it a little more clearly? Just makes it easier to read

. She may need a bit more of a push in A times if she's still taking a while to settle. The 3h nap this afternoon could definitely be responsible for being awake at 2am too but hard to say without seeing the whole day.

tweetie · « **Reply #9 on:** December 09, 2012, 19:16:36 pm »

Thank you very much, here it is:

THUR----------------------FRI----------------------------SAT------------------------------------ SUN
W 6.50 AM----------------8.00 AM---------------------8.01 AM------------------------------- W 6.43 AM
E 7.47 AM-----------------8.39------------------------- 9.02------------------------------------ E 6.47
9.34 10.31 S 6.54 (1 hr)
A A
S 10.20 (1.10 hr) ---------10.52 (2 hr)--------------11.04 (30 min) E 10.21
E 12.39 ---------------------2.08-------------------------12.47 S 10.34 (50 min)
A A
S 2.15 PM (2.24 hr) ------3.36 PM (1.15 hr)--------1.38 PM (2.52 hr) E 1.41
E 4.40-------------------------6.09--------------------------4.47 S 2.17 (1.40 hr)
A E + A 5.01
E 6.52-------------------------7.13 PM------------------------7.00 PM 6.43
BT 8.04 PM--------------------7.53 PM-----------------------7.51 PM BT 7.13 PM

E 9.25 9.57 9.51
00.38 1.39 2.29 - then awake until 5.05
4.25 5.06

Sunday was mess with her EASY because of the previous night. Regarding last two days - I am not sure was she awake by neighbours or she would wake up no matter (don't ask I live in the downtown). She is very light sleeper. I put white noise and music very loud during the day and still you could wake her up taking plastic bag in another room

any solution for that? We could hardly breath when she sleeps...

Each evening looks the same with waking three or four times by 10 crying and screaming and then is over

OT?
Thank you

tweetie · « **Reply #10 on:** December 10, 2012, 01:05:46 am »

I am back - horrible night crying and waking up till 10 PM (I fed her), slept by 1 AM, ate and fully awake. I assume it will again take three hours...

tweetie · « **Reply #11 on:** December 10, 2012, 07:50:51 am »

another update

horrible night, lots of crying, screaming, slept from 3 am - 4 am, woke up crying, ate, end up in our bed

and slept till 7.30 am - we are exhausted. I knew I should not write how well it went - Murphy's law immediately caught me

jessmum46 · « **Reply #12 on:** December 10, 2012, 11:45:29 am »

I think you're doing all you can if she's a light sleeper - just turn that white noise up as far as it will go.

It's a little hard to tell what she needs A time wise as she has quite a variety in the days you've posted. I think it might help you (if you can) to try to stick to one A time for a few days as its very hard to spot any patterns without something being consistent. How do you feel about trying 2h45 for her first A time consistently for a few days and see what that gets you?

tweetie · « **Reply #13 on:** December 10, 2012, 18:40:18 pm »

thank you. I was aiming to 3 hr A time but one thing is when I put her in bed and when she actually sleeps (this time I write as A time)

I took out A time: Thur (3.5 hr, 2.45, 3.25 hr), Fri (2.52, 2.43, 3 hr), Sat (3.03, 3 , 3.20 hr), Sun (2.40, 3.02, 3.17 hr) - you think it should be more consistent? How to make it happen? I have always the same procedure: put her in bed after approx. 2,5 hr so she has time to settle. Do you think I should I put her just short before she is supposed to fall a sleep? Then I could go with 2.45 if you think it would be better.

jessmum46 · « **Reply #14 on:** December 10, 2012, 19:28:26 pm »

If you are putting her down at 2h30 she is likely UT which is why she is taking so long to settle. I tend to put my DD down 5mins before I want her to be asleep, then she is actually tired enough to settle down quite quickly. I'd try putting her down at 2h45 to see if that makes a difference.

tweetie · « **Reply #15 on:** December 11, 2012, 05:36:16 am »

thank you I will

tweetie · « **Reply #16 on:** December 19, 2012, 08:24:27 am »

I am back, no sleep, exhausted

. Last whole week I tried to keep her on 3 hr A and we had lots of NW and mess. I was still rocking her before sleep but it went very fast (she would fall a sleep within few minutes). Her naps were still not uniform and too short...

Adjusting EASY to two naps is killing us... Finally she slept great for the whole night with one eating (from Sunday to Monday). I was so happy thinking that is that, yeah right

. At evening everything went downhill (I wrote EASY bellow). She woke up screaming, scratching me, pinching (very aggressive), and nothing could calm her for two hours (rocking, nursing, walking, music...) then she fall a sleep in my hands and when I try to put her in bed she was freaking out... and then everything starts from the beginning... last night the same thing... During the day she is of course in cranky, wants lots of attention... I really do not know where is the catch - maybe OT?

In addition when nights are such a mess I do not know how to deal with A time - to cut or not?

Here is EASY from Monday
WU 6.53
A
S 9.56 - 11.34 (1.38 hr)
A
S 2.46-3.59 (1.22 hr)
A
BT 7.15 , WU 9.20 screaming.....fall a sleep 0.20-2.22 WU screaming, S 3.17-6.16 (ate), S 6.27-8.24

TUE

WU 8.24
A
S 11.20-12.20 (1 hr)
A
S 2.50 - 4.55 (2.05 hr Baby Bjorn)
BT 7.52, WU 9.57 screaming... fall a sleep 10.45-2.00, WU screaming, ate, S 2.10-5.15, WU screaming, freaking out awake till 7.15 sleep in carrier for 30 min when I wanted to put her in bed disaster and she was awake till 9.15 am (today)
thank you

jessmum46 · « **Reply #17 on:** December 19, 2012, 12:04:51 pm »

The days don't look too bad to cause that much trouble at night..... Does she have any more teeth coming through?

tweetie · « **Reply #18 on:** December 19, 2012, 12:33:39 pm »

I do not see any sign on her gums

she already has two. She started to eat better solids (breakfast) but does not have diaper rash anymore (she got it when we started)... maybe some late growth spurt

but last week she started to eat less frequently during night. This morning she slept one hour and now I came back from the outside (she slept one more hour in Baby Bjorn) because she was just crying and was in the bad mood after that nap .

tweetie · « **Reply #19 on:** December 20, 2012, 04:12:35 am »

This night was great in comparison with the last two - she slept from 8 pm till 4 am ate but after that no way she would go back to sleep

I am having my coffee and contemplating about life

jessmum46 · « **Reply #20 on:** December 20, 2012, 12:29:16 pm »

(((Hugs))) did you ever manage to get her back to sleep? I would try to ignore the clock today and just follow her cues and try to get some sleep into her by any means to help her catch up. I'd try for a super early bedtime as well if you can manage it given how early she was up this morning. She probably needs her A times shortening for a while until she catches up x

tweetie · « **Reply #21 on:** December 21, 2012, 13:11:40 pm »

Thank you

Yes at 5.53 and she slept till 7.30, ate and continue to sleep till 8.45. Then one 26 min nap in the car seat (we were at pediatrician) then 1.20 afternoon (finished at 2.12 pm) and the DH took her out for 20 min nap in Baby Bjorn to finish it by 5 pm. BT 8.20 pm ate at 00.30 and slept by 5.30 am today.

Super early bedtime - each time was catastrophy - she would wake up later and could not sleep or awake in the night so I am trying to avoid that. I am thinking when I need to stretch A to BT to go with shorter nap (10 or 15 min)?

Today WU 5.30 am (try to put her back but no way)
S 8.30-9.28 (58 min)
12.40-1.24 pm (full diaper woke her up) and she continue to sleep from 1.40 pm
but again I will need to stretch A to BT ...
edit: I tried to cut A time but she would start to complain and cry so I gave up

tweetie · « **Reply #22 on:** December 22, 2012, 02:21:41 am »

So... yesterday she slept till 3 pm so I did early bed time at 6 pm... result: disaster... she was constantly waking (I did not look at the watch, it started after first 35 min and continued till 10 pm) then she slept till 11.50 ate, slept till 1.50 am (always first half an hour on my hands to calm down) and since then she is awake.....

I know that my DH is responsible for that taking her for an hour (4-5 pm)downtown into the store to buy toy

We live in the city with one million people city so you could just imagine what a mess is in the stores or trams... I thought I will strangle him

is there any topic about stubborn husbands?

jessmum46 · « **Reply #23 on:** December 23, 2012, 11:33:09 am »

LOL we should start one!!!

tweetie · « **Reply #24 on:** December 30, 2012, 10:01:20 am »

I'm back, long time no see

so after one week of adjusting A time we came to the weird point and I need help. Maybe I should post on EASY but it is again connected with night sleep

.

So we reached the point that our first A time is 3.09 to 3.19 hr and she falls a sleep very fast, then the second A is much shorter (I let her to adjust because she is very tired) 2.27-2.44, and the last A time is mess (3.17-3.57 hr). I always put her ten minutes before aimed BT (A 3.15 hr). I am aware that A time are not uniform but naps improved a lot - first around 1.5 hr sometimes 2, second similar, what is a huge progress (I can not remember such a school example

). I do not need rock, two days she fell a sleep just holding me for the hand

and the rest of days I just took her in hands and it took her few minutes to fall a sleep.

But nights are still bad

ok no screaming but she is waking then she cries because she is very sleepy - sometimes I just put my hand on her and she goes back to sleep; sometimes I need to hold her to sleep (those magic twenty minutes and then put her in the crib) and it goes through the whole night, each two or three hours. It peaked last night - she was awake from 2-5 am

. She could not even fall a sleep on me... I need to mention that she started to roll a week ago. Each day I let her on the floor to practice. She is showing separation anxiety but we are playing peekaboo. At evening she is holding my hand with both her hands so tight like I will run away so I am sitting next to the crib .... She is now 7 month and 4 days old.

I assume I need to do something with the second A time but I can not extend it because she is very tired and sleepy. Any suggestion?

edit: she eats around 11, 11.30 pm and then around 4 or 5 am

jessmum46 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 30, 2012, 12:17:17 pm »

I would try a slightly earlier bedtime - maybe aim for 3hA and see if she settles easier for you. Is she going to sleep independently at bedtime or does she need you to hold her hand? If you are there helping her, I wonder if you might have to use a gradual withdrawal approach to help her learn to settle without you?

tweetie · « **Reply #26 on:** December 30, 2012, 16:38:27 pm »

Thank you I will. She is not independent sleeper. She was first three and a half months - only at evening - I would just put her in the crib and left the room (ah those times...)..... Now as we stopped with rocking I need to hold her for the hand and then sometimes to pick her up for short.... it depends how tired she is. I do have a plan to start gradual withdrawal approach. However at this time point when I try to move just a little bit from the crib she starts to be angry and cry.

tweetie · « **Reply #27 on:** December 31, 2012, 04:37:14 am »

Here I am --- dead---

. Yesterday I planed to put her in the crib at 2.45 A (BT) but few minutes earlier (until then she was on the bed next to me exploring the wire from the headphones

she just suddenly started to cry and scream and I could not calm her down... nothing worked.... even rocking... after a while she fell a sleep in my arms and I put her in the crib around 8.10, then feeding 10.30 and after that she was waking probably each hour I ended put her in my bed but that also did not help a lot... and she is awake completely from 4 am (obviously our standard

).... and yesterday day looked as usual - two naps - first 2 hr, second 1,5 hr...

jessmum46 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 02, 2013, 11:26:25 am »

Hi and happy new year. I apologise for the late reply - how were the last couple of days?

She could certainly have a lot of built-up OT from disturbed nights, but it's difficult to see exactly what's happening when she isn't an independent sleeper $:-\$

I think maybe you need to make yourself a clear plan of how to do your gradual withdrawal. So if currently you are sitting by her crib holding her hand until she sleeps, you make sure you do that consistently and perhaps add in a sleep phrase that she can learn to associate with sleep e.g. You're just going to sleep, sleepy time, time to sleep etc. Once she is settling with that, you continue to sit by the crib, but only use your voice rather than holding her hand. Every few days move slightly further away from the crib and continue to use your voice to reassure.

If you are going to do sleep training it's important to realise that it's very difficult to change habits without LO becoming upset to some extent, but they are not crying because they are hurt or hungry, but because you are changing things and they are protesting. You stay with them to help them through the changes so they know they can trust you to be there. What do you think?

tweetie · « **Reply #29 on:** January 02, 2013, 14:23:49 pm »

Thank you jessmum happy New Year you too

.
Things are horrible

. Actually days look like school samples (except today because I let her sleep as long as she wants and it was by 8.30) - she has two naps - each 1,5 to 2 hr (it has never been so consistent). BT - I put her at 2.45 hr (A time) as you suggested and she falls asleep sometimes at 3hr or 3.15. Nights are getting worse and worse: last night: BT 7.52 pm, W 8.30 (I just put my hand for a short time), 10.44 (feed, fall a sleep very fast) and then started 1.03 (fall a sleep very fast in my arms - only that thing that works, not even rocking), 1.40 - cry and scream and nothing worked, she was rubbing her eyes, very sleepy but could not sleep, after a while she woke up completely and then at 3.05 finally fall a sleep in my arms

first screaming, she could not settle, fighting, it looked horrible..., 5.38 (feed), WU 8.37.

Night before last night: BT 7.36, W 30 min after, then 1.10 hr after, 10.52 (feed, fall a sleep fast), 0.50 - fall a sleep at 1.04, 4.20 was awake by 6 am, slept till 6.40 am

I know that I need to work on her independent sleep and I started and there was a progress - she was willing to be in the crib and fall a sleep just holding my hand...We do have the phrase and ritual......Now we are almost at the beginning- she can not settle down when she needs to go to the crib (today even during the day but she falls a sleep immediately in my arms) cry and scream

. She is using paci when she goes to sleep but then she spits it out during the sleep. When she starts to wake replugging paci does not help - she does not want it.... I do not know from where to start when she is so irritated immediately when she needs to go to bed or when she wakes in the night ... I will need to figure it out how to do that...

tweetie · « **Reply #30 on:** January 03, 2013, 01:15:41 am »

I am back, things are pretty bad and I can not figure it out what is going on

. She went to bed 8.04 pm (pretty calm in comparison with the last two nights, I picked her up at the end for short to fall a sleep and return her back in the crib), 10.52 woke up, I fed, return to the crib after 5 minutes holding her in my arms) everything looked ok. At 0.52 she woke up (already the third night around that time, is this getting habitual waking?) could not get back to sleep, very tired so I took her in my arms, and when she fall a sleep returned her back in the crib, then it started... she was crying, screaming, freaking out, I lay down next to her in the crib (we removed one side of the crib) and hug her and saying the phrase to sleep (she knows it) and it was disaster... after 35 minutes I gave up because it sounded and looked horrible even though I was all the time next to her trying to calm her down... When I picked her up she was even worse she simply could not stop

. After 15 additional minutes I did not know what to do so I fed her... she was really eating but I can not believe that was real hunger ... or it was? Or she was protesting? Or I am getting crazy?

Now she lays down in the crib playing with her blanket (I changed diaper too) and I am having my coffee wondering is there any way out from this vicious cycle?

jessmum46 · « **Reply #31 on:** January 03, 2013, 12:27:22 pm »

(((Hugs))) I'm sorry it was rough.

The most important thing is going to be consistency. That means you can't hold her to sleep sometimes, and not others. She doesn't know the logic behind that and it isn't fair to her - it will just prolong the process because she knows that sometimes if she fusses for long enough, she will get what she is used to. Equally, you can't start and then give up after x amount of time because again, she only learns that if she protests long enough, she will get what she wants.

IIWY I would start afresh with nap time tomorrow and stick to your plan of sitting next to her, not picking her up. If she gets really distraught and you feel you need to, pick her up briefly to calm but then put her down and continue. She needs to fall asleep in the crib. For naps, try for 45 mins, then get her up, keep things low key and bring her next nap early. At bedtime, do it for as long as it takes. Same for NWs. If you normally feed at night, decide before you go to her whether you are feeding or not. If you are going to feed, do it straight away. If not, keep going with settling her all the way to sleep. She may skip naps completely and take forever to go to sleep at bedtime the first few times - this is normal. If you are consistent with it though you should start to see results soon

tweetie · « **Reply #32 on:** January 03, 2013, 17:57:01 pm »

Thank you very much for your help. I know and I was not psychologically ready last night. The only thing that I do not understand that we reached the point that she would go back to sleep holding my hand and now this hysterical behaviour like we are going backwards???
I will start just not sure will that be from tomorrow or from Monday (DH is working next three days whole days so I will be alone with her all the time - I am not sure will I be able to manage...)

tweetie · « **Reply #33 on:** January 03, 2013, 18:15:06 pm »

Again I - you know in which stage I am when I am talking to myself

... so I hold her for hand and lay in the crib - she was just crying for few minutes, calm down and was still awake when I remove my hand and my fat body

and after that she fall a sleep

God knows how the night will look like but I really do not get how does she functions - sometimes it works sometimes it does not

jessmum46 · « **Reply #34 on:** January 03, 2013, 19:05:14 pm »

That's life! Most times my DD will go straight down no problems, then randomly will need 45 mins of Walk in, out down, walk out before she'll sleep. So some days it will be easier than others, but great job today

tweetie · « **Reply #35 on:** January 04, 2013, 10:28:05 am »

Thank you jess for all your support, time and help I really appreciate it

Last night looked better - I realized when she will be two I will function perfectly with just few hours of sleep

. BT 7.05, ate at 9.30 slept till 11.50 (I put my hand and move to the crib for 5 min, wake 1.15 ate and fell a sleep immediately when I returned her in the crib

slept till 4.30 am (by then she did wake but I just put my hand and she went back to sleep). I am not sure what woke her up around that time (diaper was very wet and she does not like it) I try to put her back to sleep but she was not interested at all and in the good mood. I gave up after 30 min, changed diaper and let her in the crib playing with paci. After a while I realized she is sleepy and decided to feed her (I know she was not very hungry but also not full so she could fall a sleep). She was sleeping from 6.15 till 8 am. First nap today - she was down in few minutes

. I am afraid I will be punished for that

jessmum46 · « **Reply #36 on:** January 04, 2013, 11:52:38 am »

Not a bad night at all - well done!

tweetie · « **Reply #37 on:** January 04, 2013, 17:43:37 pm »

Thank you

today I did a lot of house work ... we will see this night will go..

tweetie · « **Reply #38 on:** January 07, 2013, 08:04:43 am »

Update + question
Nights look much better, my DD does not wake every half an hour or hour ...thanks a lot jess

. We are working on independent sleep - still holding her for the hand but no fussing or anything like that. I have two questions:

1. A time before BT (aiming 3 hr) - every day is the same routine however sometimes she falls a sleep at 3 hr, sometimes 3.15 but sometimes 3.30 or3.40 hr - I do not know is there any way to deal with that? (i.e. in the morning it works perfect and predictable)

2. one NW is still here and I do not know how to get rid of that (maybe to post it on NW board?). Looking backwards we have it since she entered into mental leap 4. It has always been between 1 and 4 am (it is not at the same time so I could do W2S) and then she can not fall a sleep for the next 1.5 hr (in the past it was even 2 or 3 hr). i.e. last night she rubbed her eyes and trying and trying and ended waking up then playing with the paci. After a while she was again trying to fall a sleep and it took her at least half an hour (I was holding her for the hand, she was pretty restless). Last night it was after BF (now I assume maybe she would not even eat if she would not be awake because at 7 am she did not look very hungry).
thank you

jessmum46 · « **Reply #39 on:** January 07, 2013, 11:37:59 am »

1 - do you notice if she takes longer to settle on days where she has better or worse naps, or is there no pattern?

2 - remind me are you doing a dream feed? If not, and you only have the one night waking personally I would treat it as hunger and feed. A lot of babies still need a night feed at 6 months until they are more firmly established on solids. If you don't think that's it, could discomfort be an issue?

tweetie · « **Reply #40 on:** January 07, 2013, 13:02:17 pm »

thank you
1. I can not connect NW with the length of the naps (I looked at the notes from the last few weeks), even though last four days the second nap became much shorter (in the range from 30 min to 1 hr). At the beginning I was thinking it could be connected with longer naps that end at 5 pm (instead of 4) but again that was not the case.

2. No DF I feed her when she wakes for food

. In the past I did cluster feeding and now I offer her last feed always after bath before BT no matter when it was the previous one (sometimes she wants sometimes she refuses). Depending on that last feed she wakes between 9- 11 for feed (night before last night she did not eat from 6.30 pm-1.30 am), then one night feed around 2. I do not have problems with feeding but with later "party".
I was thinking about discomfort - she does have sometimes winds, sometimes is full moon, sometimes big temperature changes (do not laugh but my DH always looks at the weather forecast when she can not sleep

), sometimes I change diaper but I can not say what could be almost each night

Today her morning nap was disaster 30 min and now it passed 3 hr of A time and she still does not sleep ...like somebody turn on freshly charged battery in her

God help me this night

jessmum46 · « **Reply #41 on:** January 07, 2013, 18:51:59 pm »

If she takes longer to settle at BT does it seem to affect her night at all? Tbh if the night is pretty much the same however long she takes to settle down, then it doesn't really matter

. J will do this sometimes - usually goes off in 10 mins or so but then will randomly take 20 or 30 mins. As long as she's quiet and getting round to going to sleep at some point, I kind of think its not *really* proper A time because its dark and quiet. Does that help at all?

With the NW - is she upset during that 1.5h or just messing around/grizzling? Long upset NWs for us are generally discomfort or major OT, whereas long 'silly' night wakings are more likely UT. How are her naps now? Do you want to post your current EASY? Is she close to 7 months yet?

tweetie · « **Reply #42 on:** January 08, 2013, 03:53:07 am »

Thank you jess.
It depends - sometimes she is restless (I do not pick her up anymore she is holding my hand (uff I do not now when I will be able to apply GW on that hand), scratching with her nails, and she would wake after 30 min for short, or more often a the beginning of the night, I know it was OT... From the other side sometimes she would not wake....I could not see the pattern but I will pay attention more carefully

NW - From the last week she does not cry just play with paci or looking at me. The only thing is that we are sharing the room so I can not sleep then

. Last few nights I was lying in the dark but this night again I have my coffee and notebook in my lap... Usually after certain point she starts grizzling but in general she looks awake and bored. I was thinking that maybe she is UT but these jumps from OT and screaming nights in ten days to UT are confusing - it is hard to figure it out.

She is 7 months and 13 days old.

Here is EASY that looks messy last few days (as I wrote naps are getting shorter plus regular NW).
Sunday
WU 6 am
E BF
A
E solids
S 9.12-11.23 (2.11 hr)
A
E 12.47
S 2.44-3.28 PM (44 min) - we had guests, the noise woke her up
A
E 4.30, 6.36 pm
BT 7.03 pm; BF 11.02 pm, BF 3.04 am awake till 4.25 am

Monday
WU 7 am
E BF
A
E solids
S 10.14-10.48 am (33 min)
A
E 11.40
S 2.06-3.27 PM (1.21 hr)
E 3.30
A
E 6.16
BT 6.40 PM ; BF 10.36 PM, W 1.00 AM (APOP - fall a sleep in my arms, returned her in the crib), BF 3 am - already awake almost 2hr

Thanks a lot

jessmum46 · « **Reply #43 on:** January 08, 2013, 11:27:26 am »

Hmm I wouldn't have thought UT from your EASY. Is it possible she is being disturbed by you being in the same room? Is there an alternative?

tweetie · « **Reply #44 on:** January 08, 2013, 13:36:59 pm »

How do you mean? Just with my presence or? I do not snore

and sleep pretty peacefully, my DH left to the living room because we noticed it bothers her his snoring and turning in the bed. Unfortunately there is no alternative

. The only thing what I noticed when she co-slept with me (during teething) she slept without any problem on my part of the bed (she was not exactly next to me) - no NW and I was on the part of the bed from my DH.

jessmum46 · « **Reply #45 on:** January 08, 2013, 17:22:57 pm »

Yes I just meant your presence in the room - at 7 months she is getting more aware of her surroundings so if she wakes (which we all do briefly) she may realise you are there and that might stop her getting back to sleep. Does that make sense? But it may not be that at all!

tweetie · « **Reply #46 on:** January 10, 2013, 02:28:09 am »

Thank you jess. Hmmm I am not sure... I really do not know but I do not know what to do... last night she woke up but I resettle her very fast so she was sleeping and I could not because of noisy neighbours

. That was the first night after I do not know how many weeks....
This night first she started to cry and could not resettle and I took her in my arms for ten minutes, returned to the crib. She was trying to fall a sleep and suddenly just start to turn on the tummy and do push ups

she look like a turtle and just turning around, started to move her hand with the paci uncontrolled like she is nervous (I can not find word in english sorry) and now she is completely awake, but in the bed mood... I fed her - she just snacked. DH is there just laying next to the crib and I am in the living room.
It is getting tiring to be obsessed with schedule, timing, sleeping, overstimulation and all these things and the constant result is night party in the good or bed mood.

Sorry but I needed to vent

tweetie · « **Reply #47 on:** January 10, 2013, 06:45:39 am »

I decided to post on NW board - looking backwards my sleeping notes - I saw NW more or less constant last three months (I was not even aware that they were so constant). I was thinking they will sort out when I resolve EASY and day sleep. Naps are nice - thanks to you jess

but nights did not sort out

. Thank you very much jess I appreciate all your help. I am pretty sure you will see me soon here

jessmum46 · « **Reply #48 on:** January 10, 2013, 11:34:24 am »

You're welcome, I hope you get to the bottom of the NWs soon

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Author Topic: 6 months old spirited baby self settling problem (Read 6416 times)