6 months old spirited baby self settling problem

[tweetie]

I am back, things are pretty bad and I can not figure it out what is going on  . She went to bed 8.04 pm (pretty calm in comparison with the last two nights, I picked her up at the end for short to fall a sleep and return her back in the crib), 10.52 woke up, I fed, return to the crib after 5 minutes holding her in my arms) everything looked ok. At 0.52 she woke up (already the third night around that time, is this getting habitual waking?) could not get back to sleep, very tired so I took her in my arms, and when she fall a sleep returned her back in the crib, then it started... she was crying, screaming, freaking out, I lay down next to her in the crib (we removed one side of the crib) and hug her and saying the phrase to sleep (she knows it) and it was disaster... after 35 minutes I gave up because it sounded and looked horrible even though I was all the time next to her trying to calm her down... When I picked her up she was even worse she simply could not stop  . After 15 additional minutes I did not know what to do so I fed her... she was really eating but I can not believe that was real hunger ... or it was? Or she was protesting? Or I am getting crazy?  Now she lays down in the crib playing with her blanket (I changed diaper too) and I am having my coffee wondering is there any way out from this vicious cycle?

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) I'm sorry it was rough.

The most important thing is going to be consistency. That means you can't hold her to sleep sometimes, and not others.  She doesn't know the logic behind that and it isn't fair to her - it will just prolong the process because she knows that sometimes if she fusses for long enough, she will get what she is used to.  Equally, you can't start and then give up after x amount of time because again, she only learns that if she protests long enough, she will get what she wants.

IIWY I would start afresh with nap time tomorrow and stick to your plan of sitting next to her, not picking her up.  If she gets really distraught and you feel you need to, pick her up briefly to calm but then put her down and continue.  She needs to fall asleep in the crib.  For naps, try for 45 mins, then get her up, keep things low key and bring her next nap early.  At bedtime, do it for as long as it takes.  Same for NWs.  If you normally feed at night, decide before you go to her whether you are feeding or not.  If you are going to feed, do it straight away.  If not, keep going with settling her all the way to sleep.  She may skip naps completely and take forever to go to sleep at bedtime the first few times - this is normal.  If you are consistent with it though you should start to see results soon

[tweetie]

Thank you very much for your help. I know and I was not psychologically ready last night. The only thing that I do not understand that we reached the point that she would go back to sleep holding my hand and now this hysterical behaviour like we are going backwards???
I will start just not sure will that be from tomorrow or from Monday (DH is working next three days whole days so I will be alone with her all the time - I am not sure will I be able to manage...)

[tweetie]

Again I - you know in which stage I am when I am talking to myself  ... so I hold her for hand and lay in the crib - she was just crying for few minutes, calm down and was still awake when I remove my hand and my fat body  and after that she fall a sleep  God knows how the night will look like but I really do not get how does she functions  - sometimes it works sometimes it does not

[jessmum46]

That's life!  Most times my DD will go straight down no problems, then randomly will need 45 mins of Walk in, out down, walk out before she'll sleep.  So some days it will be easier than others, but great job today

[tweetie]

Thank you jess for all your support, time and help I really appreciate it 
Last night looked better - I realized when  she will be two I will function perfectly with just few hours of sleep  . BT 7.05, ate at 9.30 slept till 11.50 (I put my hand and move to the crib for 5 min, wake 1.15 ate and fell a sleep immediately when  I returned her in the crib  slept till 4.30 am (by then she did wake but I just put my hand and she went back to sleep). I am not sure what woke her up around that time (diaper was very wet and she does not like it) I try to put her back to sleep but she was not interested at all and in the good mood. I gave up  after 30 min, changed diaper and let her in the crib playing with paci. After a while  I realized she is sleepy and decided to feed her (I know she was not very hungry but also not full so she could fall a sleep). She was sleeping from 6.15 till 8 am. First nap today - she was down in few minutes  . I am afraid I will be punished for that 

[jessmum46]

Not a bad night at all - well done!

[tweetie]

Thank you  today I did a lot of house work ... we will see this night will go..

[tweetie]

Update + question
Nights look much better, my DD does not wake every half an hour or hour ...thanks a lot jess  . We are working on independent sleep - still holding her for the hand but no fussing or anything like that. I have two questions:

1. A time before BT (aiming 3 hr) - every day is the same routine however sometimes she falls a sleep at 3 hr, sometimes 3.15 but sometimes 3.30 or3.40 hr - I do not know is there any way to deal with that? (i.e. in the morning it works perfect and predictable)

2. one NW is still here and I do not know how to get rid of that (maybe to post it on NW board?). Looking backwards we have it since she entered into mental leap 4. It has always been between 1 and 4 am (it is not at the same time so I could do W2S) and then she can not fall a sleep for the next 1.5 hr (in the past it was even 2 or 3 hr). i.e. last night she rubbed her eyes and trying and trying and ended waking up then playing with the paci. After a while she was again trying to fall a sleep and it took her at least half an hour (I was holding her for the hand, she was pretty restless). Last night it was after BF (now I assume maybe she would not even eat if she would not be awake because at 7 am she did not look very hungry).
thank you

[jessmum46]

1 - do you notice if she takes longer to settle on days where she has better or worse naps, or is there no pattern?

2 - remind me are you doing a dream feed?  If not, and you only have the one night waking personally I would treat it as hunger and feed.  A lot of babies still need a night feed at 6 months until they are more firmly established on solids.  If you don't think that's it, could discomfort be an issue? 

[tweetie]

thank you
1. I can not connect NW with the length of the naps (I looked at the notes from the last few weeks), even though last four days the second nap became much shorter (in the range from 30 min to 1 hr). At the beginning I was thinking it could be connected with longer naps that end at 5 pm (instead of 4) but again that was not the case. 

2. No DF I feed her when she wakes for food  . In the past I did cluster feeding and now I offer her last feed always after bath before BT no matter when it was the previous one (sometimes she wants sometimes she refuses). Depending on that last feed she wakes between 9- 11 for feed (night before last night she did not eat from 6.30 pm-1.30 am), then one night feed around 2. I do not have problems with feeding but with later "party".
I was thinking about discomfort - she does have sometimes winds, sometimes is full moon, sometimes big temperature changes (do not laugh but my DH always looks at the weather forecast  when she can not sleep  ), sometimes I change diaper but I can not say what could be almost each night 

Today her morning nap was disaster 30 min and now it passed 3 hr of A time and she still does not sleep ...like somebody turn on freshly charged battery in her  God help me this night 

[jessmum46]

If she takes longer to settle at BT does it seem to affect her night at all?  Tbh if the night is pretty much the same however long she takes to settle down, then it doesn't really matter . J will do this sometimes - usually goes off in 10 mins or so but then will randomly take 20 or 30 mins.  As long as she's quiet and getting round to going to sleep at some point, I kind of think its not *really* proper A time because its dark and quiet.  Does that help at all?

With the NW - is she upset during that 1.5h or just messing around/grizzling?  Long upset NWs for us are generally discomfort or major OT, whereas long 'silly' night wakings are more likely UT.  How are her naps now?  Do you want to post your current EASY?  Is she close to 7 months yet?

[tweetie]

Thank you jess.
It depends - sometimes she is restless (I do not pick her up anymore she is holding my hand (uff I do not now when I will be able to apply GW on that hand), scratching with her nails, and she would wake after 30 min for short, or more often a the beginning of the night, I know it was OT... From the other side sometimes she would not wake....I could not see the pattern but I will pay attention more carefully 


NW - From the last week she does not cry just play with paci or looking at me. The only thing is that we are sharing the room so I can  not sleep then  . Last few nights I was lying in the dark but this night again I have my coffee and notebook in my lap... Usually after certain point she starts grizzling but in general she looks awake and bored. I was thinking that maybe she is UT but these jumps from OT and screaming nights in ten days to UT are confusing - it is hard to figure it out.

She is 7 months and 13 days old.

Here is EASY that looks messy last few days (as I wrote naps are getting shorter plus regular NW).
Sunday
WU 6 am
E BF
A
E solids
S 9.12-11.23 (2.11 hr)
A
E 12.47
S 2.44-3.28 PM (44 min) - we had guests, the noise woke her up
A
E 4.30, 6.36 pm
BT 7.03 pm; BF 11.02 pm, BF 3.04 am awake till 4.25 am

Monday
WU 7 am
E BF
A
E solids
S 10.14-10.48 am (33 min)
A
E 11.40
S 2.06-3.27 PM (1.21 hr)
E 3.30
A
E 6.16
BT 6.40 PM ; BF 10.36 PM, W 1.00 AM (APOP - fall a sleep in my arms, returned her in the crib), BF 3 am - already awake almost 2hr

Thanks a lot

[jessmum46]

Hmm I wouldn't have thought UT from your EASY.  Is it possible she is being disturbed by you being in the same room?  Is there an alternative?

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How do you mean? Just with my presence or? I do not snore  and sleep pretty peacefully, my DH left to the living room because we noticed it bothers her his snoring and turning in the bed. Unfortunately there is no alternative  . The only thing what I noticed when she co-slept with me (during teething) she slept without any problem on my part of the bed (she was not exactly next to me) - no NW and I was on the part of the bed from my DH.