Just don't know what to do

[bluebell568]

Any ideas on why we're getting EWs? This week she's done

wake 6.15  nap 1.25-2.25  asleep 7.25
Awake 5.30  nap 12.45-1.40  asleep 7.05
Awake 5.40

Any suggestions?

[Truly Blessed]

Hiya, at a guess I'd say it's because her am A time is long for a LO who is only just on 1 nap. Usually you would start out with a 5 hour A time and shift toward 6 hours as LO gets used to the 1 nap routine, and she is already doing in excess of 7 hours. Is there any way that can be rectified or do all the LO's nap at that time at nursery  If it's unavoidable. to compensate for this I would shorten the day if you can. For a 1 hour nap I would go with a 12 hour day/12.5 absolute maximum. Then hopefully she will tack on sleep and a longer night will compensate for a shorter nap, at least until the nap hopefully extends.

HTH.x.

[bluebell568]

Thanks for your reply. We had to make the one nap of the day at 12:45 or later as this is the earliest I can get her down for a nap on Wed and Thurs when I work all morning and collect her at lunchtime. Hopefully she'll begin to sleep for longer than an hour as she gets used the the new routine. In the meantime I will do early bedtimes and see if that helps.

She hasn't done as well today, she wouldn't sleep for my mum who had her this afternoon and finally dropped off for 25 minutes at 3:20!
Hopefully we won't have to get up too early in the morning and things will be better for me tomorrow afternoon.

[Truly Blessed]

Ah Hun, it's difficult and frustrating when it's out of your hands, but life goes on around Parenthood. I think the early bed times will really help. Just to explain why, in case you don't fully understand. The longer a LO is awake the less restorative a nap is, so the next sleep needs to be brought forward because they will obviously be tired sooner, due to still being tired when they wake. Honestly, I think it will be a tough call for her to get used to an A time that long, so I would brace yourself for OT to take a hold and I think you'll be needing those early bed times. Hopefully if she does tack on and pull lovely long nights it will be enough to help her to deal with the long morning. Keeping everything X'd for you.x.

[bluebell568]

The reason we made the nap after lunch was so that she only had to nap at nursery on 2 days a week because she was having such difficulty going to sleep at nursery. But they were so successful when they put her into the cot on Monday and Tuesday of this week that it might be possible for them to bring the nap earlier at nursery and still be successful. And then we could go for an earlier nap each day and she can nap at nursery 4 days and at home on the days she doesn't go to nursery at all.
I suppose it will depend on why it worked so well. Was it because it was after lunch and she was very tired or was it because they just popped her in the cot, gave her back a little rub and left her to settle rather than trying to rock her to sleep. Or was it something else that I'm unaware of such as is the room where the babies sleep quieter at that time with less babies coming in and out. Or perhaps there are other babies sleeping and she copies what they are doing etc.
Could you give me some more advice on the timings. What sort of A time would be ideal in the mornings. And what A time is best in the afternoon for different lengths of nap. How do I work it out? (She will be 16 months next week.)
We now have 3 days at home where I can keep working on the gw and nap times.

[Truly Blessed]

Honey, I'm just off to work, I'll be back in the morning, in the meantime, it would be worth asking nursery the right questions to help you conclude what is best.

x.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Hun, sorry it's taken a while to get back to you, I've had a crazy busy day.

Is there any consistency in her WU at the moment  Just wondering in order to try and come up with a routine plan together. How is the GW going 

x.

[bluebell568]

Hi,

The GW at bedtime is going really well. Tonight we did bath then milk then story and into cot at 6:55 and I sat on landing with her door open. She called out once and I shussed and she was asleep by 7:15. I'm really pleased with how that is going.

We just need to sort the naps and EWs out now!!


Monday   awake 6.15  nap 1.25-2.25  asleep 7.25
Tuesday  awake 5.30  nap 12.45-1.40  asleep 7.05
Wednesday awake 5.40  nap 3:20-3:45 (my poor Mum had her on Wed pm and tried everything to get her to sleep)  asleep 7:10
Thursday  awake 5:10 then back to sleep until 6:15 nap 1:30-2:20  asleep  7:00
Friday      awake 5:00  nap 1 10:40-11:20  nap 2 3:40-4:40  (in car)  asleep 7:15

Positives: The gw at bedtime is going really well. Nursery made great progress in getting her to sleep for an hour on Mon and Tues. And although I'm not having much luck with the gw for naps or EWs, at least she hasn't fallen asleep on the breast at all this week which I think is pretty good progress.

Still to work on: The timings of the naps and bedtimes. The EW's. Getting her to settle in her cot for naps.

Just one more week at nursery and then 2 whole weeks at home with me so I'm really hoping to get a good routine going. Thank you for all your help so far.

[Truly Blessed]

Hiya,

The GW at bedtime is going really well. Tonight we did bath then milk then story and into cot at 6:55 and I sat on landing with her door open. She called out once and I shussed and she was asleep by 7:15. I'm really pleased with how that is going.

Absolutely fantastic! well done DD and you! 

While the EW are sticking I would do everything you can to achieve EBT Hun. IMO her day needs to be kept to 12 hours with naps that short, and hopefully that will result in a longer night, and she will handle the am A time better.

Like you say the 2 weeks at home will be great to make headway.

x.

[bluebell568]

Hello again,

The holidays are finally here  and I've got 2 weeks to get dd into some sort of routine. I've tried really hard to do early bedtimes this week and keep her days to 12 1/2 hours max but some nights it has taken her so long to get to sleep it has ended up being a longer day and we are still struggling with the 5am wake ups.

I spoke to the nursery about moving her nap to earlier and they tried but it didn't work. Apparently after lunch, the toddlers all go into the sleep room and lie on little matresses for a rest/nap. It seems that by putting dd in there at this time, she is happy to copy what they are doing and settles down by herself for a nap. If they tried for a nap at 11, there were just a couple of babies in there and she wouldn't stay in the cot by herself and made a fuss which they were worried might wake the other babies.

The problem is it does take her a long time to go to sleep. I had asked them to put her down straight after lunch which would be 12:15 ish but in her book it said she was napping 1 - 2. It turns out that they are putting her in the cot at 12:15 but it takes her till 1 to settle down and fall asleep so i can't really see what they can do about making the nap earlier.

Today she has been at home with me. She woke at 5:15 and was showing tired signs soon after 10. So today she had 2 naps, 10:40-11:20 and 2:45-4:00 she was asleep by 6:45

Please can you help me with a plan of action for the holidays in terms of timings. I don't know whether i should be sticking to a fixed nap time (and what it should be) or fixed A times (and what they should be) and how do I adjust the A times and bedtime based on the lenghts of the nap?

The gw at bedtime is still going really well. I had moved onto the landing but was still shushing from the doorway but tonight I came away before she was fully asleep and when she called to see if I was still there and found I wasn't she went straight to sleep. We're not having much luck with the gw at nap time.

Hopefully we can make some real progress over the holiday and get her in a good routine ready to go back to nursery.

[Truly Blessed]

Hi, well I can see why it is a tricky on Hun. It sounds like nursery are doing everything they can to help, but with long settling times what else can you do. I have thought long and hard about what I would do in your situation and came to the conclusion that I would work on a set A time while you have the chance. IME and I have BTDT, set nap times for an OT LO are harder than set A times, especially when the WU is inconsistent. So my advise would be to go with a set A time. If she is waking anywhere between 5 and 6.30 am I'd go with 5.5 hours. The reason I'm not saying 5 (and I usually would for a LO who is newly on 1 nap) is because I think you need to try and get her used to a longer A time and 5.5 should help her to achieve the 12.15 nap time for nursery when she is back after the holidays. I realise her nap will be anything from 10.30 to 12.00 depending on WU, but a set A time does still give her body a chance to click into a routine and she should start to get used to the length of time awake, helping her to nap.  It also takes the guess work out of it for you. Then after her nap, if she short naps, I would go with anything between 5 and 5.5 to EBT/BT. The hope is that with EBT her she will lengthen her nights to compensate and WU will shift. This could take a while but as long as she is getting decent nights, the nap should then lengthen when OT starts to subside. When this happens, either later WU or longer naps, the day will shift, one way or another. I'd also make sure there's no chance of resettling when she wakes from a short nap, and if she will do it, let her rest in her cot for as long as possible, before getting her up, that goes for morning and nap WU's. The rest really does help, even when LO's are awake. There is no guarantees that it will happen within the holidays, but it should at least get her to a better place, and allow her body clock to reset.

How is the GW going Hun  Well I hope. I would do it for all sleeps during this time.

How does that sound to you 

(Hugs)

Vicki.x.

[bluebell568]

That's great thank you, we'll  have a go with 5.5 hour a times and see how we get on     

The GW is going really well at bedtime. Now she's got the idea that she has to lie down and go to sleep I have been able to gradually move away fairly easily. However with nap times she gets really distressed if I try to put her in the cot awake. I remember that she used to be like that at bedtime but I can't remember how we got past it. I can't remember if I used to pick her up again and let her settle and then put her down again or whether I sat by her and reassured her with my voice until she calmed. Or if I put her in her cot almost asleep and then slightly more awake each time. It sounds silly that I can't remember but I've tried so many things I just can't remember which one worked!

At nap time we do a similar routine to bedtime but shorter but sometimes she starts howling before we even get to the sleeping bit, it's almost like she knows what is coming and knows she doesn't want to be in her cot in her room in case she misses something interesting happening elsewhere. Sometimes she will cry and cry in her room and when you open the door and take her onto the landing she is immediately happy and then you take her back into her room and she cries again.

Any suggestions for using gw at naptime??

[Truly Blessed]

It sounds silly that I can't remember but I've tried so many things I just can't remember which one worked!

LOL oh you wouldn't believe how much I have forgotten Hun! I would sit by her cot at nap time and use your 'sleepy phrase' when needed. I would also be sure not to do anything to OS for an hour before her nap if possible, so she is relaxed enough by WD. Naps IME are always harder when ST, because LO isn't quite as exhausted half way through the day, so they have more fight in them. The fact that she is immediately fine when you take her onto the landing, is proof she is just letting you know how she feels LOL, but also that she is really just fine and not too distressed YK 

Keeping everything X'd for you! x.

[bluebell568]

Then after her nap, if she short naps, I would go with anything between 5 and 5.5 to EBT/BT.

Can I just check that anything less than 1.5 hours is a "short nap"? So if she sleeps for 1.5 or longer how long do I then do till bedtime?

Today she woke at 6:15, fell asleep for nap at 11:15 (I put her down after 5 hours thinking it would take at least 30 minuts to settle but she went to sleep straight away!) And she is still asleep so the nap is 1 hour 40 so far :-)

Thanks for all your help :-)

[Truly Blessed]

Can I just check that anything less than 1.5 hours is a "short nap"? So if she sleeps for 1.5 or longer how long do I then do till bedtime?

Yes Hun, anything less than 1.5 is considered a short nap. TBH my rule of thumb was to look at the entire day length, so I did less than 1.5 nap, a 12.5 hour day, and more than 1.5 a 13 hour day. So if you do try for 5.5 hours before nap and she short nap then I'd do 5 hours to BT. If a longer nap I'd do 5.5, that should keep things on track..ish  Does that make sense  I hope so, I think my head is turning to mush with all this Christmas business LOL.

x.