Gentle Weaning Plan

[jayne]

jennifer--

so sorry you are having a hard time...  i found that a good day schedule led to a good night time schedule (sleeping thru) We just got gina to sleep all night but i have to have her get good sleep thru the daytime... we do the same schedule with feeding every day no matter what...

the holidays are hard to stick to a schedule but try to do your best.... lots of luck to you  

[costinhas]

Hi everyone

I also wasn’t successful this weekend (saturday I had a terrible headache and let my dd sleep with us... and sunday we had a family dinner and just arrived at 11pm.) Last night we arrived late from work and everything was done with an hour delay but it all went smoothly…

19:00 bath
19:30 bf
19:45-20:20 played in her crib with us beside her
20:20-20:30 bf
20:30 fell asleep on her own in her crib Yyyeeeaaahhh! 
1:20-1:35 woke and bf (stopped bf using pantley’s plan)
1:40-2:15 woke and I tried to settle her without bf (using pu/pd, pat/shhh and everything that I remembered of)
2:15 bf  :cry:
2:18 I was in my bed trying to get some sleep again…
6:00 woke and bf (and took her to our bed)
7:30 wake up call!

So it wasn’t perfect but it also wasn’t that bad!

BetsyAnh – I agree with you in all points. I love to bf but I hate to do it during night! However even if we have the will sometimes we don’t have the strength (mental and physical) to go trough the process, do you understand me? That’s why I take her to my bed on the last feed. I know that I have to get up like 30 minutes after and I am to sleepy to spend 15 of them sitting in her room bf. What I’ve discovered is that when it’s my dh to go to her she cries a lot and 50% of the times I have to bf. So what we decided to do is: bf and with these methods try to put her in the crib before she’s totally asleep again. If she wakes after a few minutes it’s my dh that goes and settle her down and if he don't succeed I go to her again. We manage to decrease the number of night awaking we have a long way to go!

Jennifer – If you think that your posts are long look at mine :shock:  My dd also “head bang” at my breast when she was younger but I think she was soothing herself. Why don’t you just bf until he sleeps? If you keep with bf and rocking you have two habits to lose so why keep both? As you said he still cries when you rock him so do you think that bf do the trick? If pu/pd worked after bf even better! It’s my advise stupid?  :roll:

So ladies good luck to you all... and babies don’t make your mummies night’s so miserable!

[joaquinsmom]

Sandra, your advice is not stupid at all!! you are so right, I'm setting myself up for more trouble getting him used to rocking again. I guess I just have to be more patient because I think you are absolutely right about him trying to settle himself. This morning I brought him to bed with us at around 5 and bf and he started head banging again but I was so tired, I just let him do it, and within seconds he was asleep!! I kept thinking there was some problem with my milk or something that was making him do this, but I see now that he's just really sleepy, doesn't really want to eat, but is just trying to find a way to calm himself. Thank you!!!

Jayne, I do think a better day schedule would benefit ds, I'm trying to help my mom work something out with her schedule so she can help him sleep better on the days he is with her. Thanks.

Last night wasn't bad:

7:30 shower which he hated, I have no clue why he doesn't like to shower anymore

7:45 dressed him in his crib and gave him his bottle (he can hold it by himself!! so cute!!) When he became fussy we got him out and I held him and he finished his bottle. Rocked him a little and he fell asleep.

8:06 Put him in his crib. I decided to stay with him until he was really asleep to avoid coming back 10 minutes later, but he woke up anyway and was talking and playing but I did pat/sh and he fell asleep in his crib again. Stayed with him for about 15 minutes and left.

This is where it begins to get fuzzy...
1:30 (I think) woke up and bf. Then he kept waking up like every five minutes, so dh helped a couple of times, and I went in a couple of times.

3:00 woke up again. pat/sh

5:00 woke up, so I took him to our bed and bf.

6:00 woke up to bf again...  :roll:

For some reason he has a hard time waking up and he cries with his eyes closed, so I have to pick him up and get him to fully wake up and then he is happy as a clam ? this little man is a complete mistery to me...  :lol:

So not great, but not bad either.

[BetsyAnh]

ladies, have a read of this and refer back to the end of my first post and let me know if this helps-- i hope so !!! i'm still trying to keep my eyes open!!!!! :shock:  :shock:

from Elizabeth Pantley:
HELP YOUR BABY FALL BACK TO SLEEP WITH ANOTHER PERSON'S ASSISTANCE--   this idea may help breastfeeding and co-sleeping babies

in most cases, breastfeeding and c-sleeping babies wake up becaue they love having access to mommy all night long. anytime they wake up, they see, hear, smell, and feel you and think, "aha! lovely warm milk and cozy mommy. gotta have it!" so, if you have a husband, partner, mother or someone else who is willing and able to hlp for a week or so, you might want to ask that person to sleep near your baby in your stead.

if your baby is younger than about 18 months, set up a crib, cradle, or mattress right next o the helper's bed, as it's NEVER a good idea for someone other than mom to sleep right next to a tiny baby; only mom has that "mother's instinct" that prevents rolling over on the baby. this should e a person your baby is very close to and comfortable with. if possivle, have him or her start this process with naps for a few days first (if not that's OK- start right in with bedtime)

when baby awakens, have your helper rock, walk with, hum to the baby- anything that helps her go back to sleep. try to avoid using a bottle, as you'll substitute one prop for another. if you helper uses a paci to calm baby, keep in mind that at some point down the road you'll probably have to deal with weaning from the paci. many parents find that they are comfortable with that scenario.

tell your helper that it isn't "do or die." in other words, if baby starts to cry and get upset, or if your helper is losing patience, tell him or her it's OK to bring the baby to you. and try again with the next waking. when baby comes to you (notice i said "when" not "if"), follow the ideas in the sectin called Help Your Baby Fall Back to Sleep on His own While you Continue to Breastfeed and Co- Sleep...

i have just included this in my first post!!
****NEW ADDIITON***
HELP YOU BABY TO FALL BACK TO SLEEP ON HIS OWN WHILE YOU CONTINUE TO BREASTFEED AND CO-SLEEP---

[joaquinsmom]

BetsyAnh I think that would be a good idea. I think the ds gets more upset when I show up because he thinks if I'm there it MUST be to feed him. Would it be ok to see if we can set 1:00 A.M. and 5:00 A.M. as the eating times and if he wakes up in between then dh can go to him and try to get him to sleep again? Do you think that would work?

Last night was awful but it was my fault. I was kind of in a bad mood. I got ds to fall asleep and did the gentle removal but it took like 100 tries!!! I was already starting to lose my patience there. I put him in his crib and decided to stay for 20 minutes and of course he woke up like 5 minutes later and would not go back to sleep. I tried pat/sh but he was just playing and talking until he got upset and started crying and then screaming. I got really mad, and I decided this little man was not going to boss me around. He was NOT coming out of his crib. So I stayed with him and used all my patience to just talk to him softly and rub his chest and kiss him while he screamed in my face. Finally he fell asleep and I felt like cr@p.

He woke up at 12:30 and I figured he was probably hungry so I bf, did the removal thing and put him back in his crib. It was a bit easier this time.

Woke up again at 2:30, I didn't think it was because he was hungry but he wouldn't settle down in his crib so I picked him up and he starts acting like he wants to bf, but I decided I wouldn't do that and just sat with him and held him while he cried, hard...  :cry: Did the same thing at 3:30...

Woke up again at 5 and I took him to bed with us and fed him. Woke up again at about 7.

I feel awful that I didn't follow the plan but I was just feeling so angry and frustrated. I know this isn't his fault, but it's so hard to stay calm when he screams so much and it sounds like he's just really mad and there is nothing actually wrong with him. I feel like the worst mother in the world for being angry at a 7 month old, but I'm just so tired. I just want to sleep for more than 2 hours in a row for once!!! This is too hard, I'm really getting to the point where I just might leave him to cio and I don't want to do that. I can't tell you how many times last night I felt the urge to just leave and shut the door. But I kept imagining how scary it would be for him to not know why this time mommy just wouldn't come.
I'm sorry to complain so much, I know you are all tired too, I just wish I could see some progress instead of getting worse all the time...

Hope your nights were better than mine 

[BetsyAnh]

jennifer- PLEASE DON'T STRESS!!! remember, if you or the lo get upset, it's OK to revert back to the old method (bf) ESPECIALLY if you too tired and worried that you're going to lose it-- and don't worry, you're not alone!! i have also had my moments with Sienna where i am too tired and just wish she could either fall asleep faster, or just not have the night waking at all!!!  what i suggest about the feed is (you'll have to wake YOURSELF up-- sorry hun!) is that if you LO wakes at about the same time for a feed (1 & 5) then go in about 30 min before the wakeup time, and feed him. that way, you know that when he wakes at 1, it's not for food and try to have your husband go in to settle. it's a BIG difference if you wake him for food and if he is waking up and you bf him. i also suspect that if he is on solids, and is happy and fed all day, that he doesn't actually NEED the food at night-- my LO has been waking 3-5 times in the evening for bf (she's 9 months, and has been doing this for about, er 4 months now-- i'm tired too!!) and i can take her off after a minute or so and she'll go to sleep which is what led me to believe that it was for comfort/out of habit...... i want to stress to you again that it's OK to just go ahead and bf if you or your LO get upset, YOU WILL SEE PROGRESS OVER TIME!!!!! hang in there, and you'll BOTH get through this!! let me know what you think  and i wish you a better night!

[joaquinsmom]

Thanks for putting up with me BetsyAnh, I can be such a downer sometimes  :oops:
I think I will try out your suggestion. Tonight will be a bit difficult, since we probably won't get home until about 9:00 but I will try to keep at least part of the routine and maybe try to get up and feed him at 12:00 and see how that goes. I think I did do this once a long time ago, before our little teething nightmare, and it did make a difference. Don't know why I didn't keep doing it... I think I was confused about wheter I should keep doing it every night at the same time or if I should push the feed back gradually... do you know how it is supposed to work?
I know I shouldn't feel like this but it feels like a setback when I have to go back to bf to get him to sleep. I have to get that out of my head and trust that I will see results in time. Thanks for reminding me.
Hope we all have a good night's sleep 

[costinhas]

Hi!

We are having success ! These last two nights even dough my dd didn’t sleep all night she fall asleep on her own (bf first and went to crib) and when she woke up it was my dh that settle her down without too much trouble! No bf during night and just 2 night wakings!

Today she fell asleep with daddy beside her without any bf! I pretended to go to work so she thought that she was alone with daddy ! It took like 30 minutes but she never cried and she just called for me once at the beginning!

BetsyAnh: Once again you give good advice and I appreciate a lot! I don’t have access to any books with this method explained so I follow your cues! And I am so pleased that it’s working so well! It’s not perfect but it’s better and it’s all that I want... to get better and better!

Jennifer: reading your words is like and x-ray of my mind :shock: ! I feel exactly the same way for so many times. And do you know any mum that didn’t felt that way not even once? I’m ashamed to admit that I’ve screamed for so many times in thoughts with my dd and wanted to do it for real  :oops: (but didn’t)! We know that we must control ourselves and in the bottom of our hearts we know that they don’t control us although it seems that way... they are just as frightened and confused as us. But it’s hard (and we just feared labor pains han!) and make us unsure of our capabilities. So dear mummy, do things that make you feel good. Pamper yourself. Buy a new shirt or do a new haircut, go to gym classes or go out with friends. Do anything you want that recharges your ”I can do it!” batteries and then you are in full strength again! Once more I don’t know if it’s good advice or not but it was the way that I figured out to help my self. So be strong and stick with the plan! I see results already and I know that it can be reverted by another tooth or cold but I’ve decided to stick with it no matter what. For the sake of my dd and my mental health :wink: !

Lot’s of sweet dreams to you all!

[joaquinsmom]

Good for you Sandra!!! I'm so happy for you and it also encourages me to keep going. And you're so right about taking time for myself, I really need it, but most of the time I feel guilty asking for it (I know I shouldn't but it's kind of programed in my head). What I want to do the most is find some time to go to the gym. I will talk to dh about it so he can watch ds for a while so that I can go.

Thanks and good luck tonight!

[joaquinsmom]

Good for you Sandra!!! I'm so happy for you and it also encourages me to keep going. And you're so right about taking time for myself, I really need it, but most of the time I feel guilty asking for it (I know I shouldn't but it's kind of programed in my head). What I want to do the most is find some time to go to the gym. I will talk to dh about it so he can watch ds for a while so that I can go.

Thanks and good luck tonight!

[joaquinsmom]

I thought last night was going to be a mess and it ended up being a very good night!!!!

DH and I had to go to this presentation at 7:00 P.M. which we thought would take about an hour... ended up taking until 10:30. So after that we went to get ds from my mom's and he was still awake  :shock: Since we hadn't had dinner yet, my mom offered us some food and while dh ate, I took ds to my sister's room to bf cause he was getting really fussy. He bf for like maybe 5 minutes and was already very sleepy so I started taking really deep breaths (I read this in another post here somewhere) and that seemed to make him even sleepier, until he completely fell asleep so I kept doing it while I did the gentle removal thing and it worked after only 1 try!!!! YAY  I don't know if it was actually the breathing or if he was just soooo tired, but whatever it was it made me happy.

But I thought he would probably wake up when we got home, and then probably wake up at around 3 again... guess what? he slept until 5!!!! It was wonderful! 5 whole hours of continuos sleep!! I couldn't believe it this morning. On top of that, at 5 when dh brought him to our room, I fed him and he went back to sleep until 7. I had to actually wake him up this morning. I am so happy. I'm hoping tonight will be good too. Keep your fingers crossed...

[Just B and Me]

Hello all

I just wanted to say I stibled upon this same book a few months ago when searching for a way to get my baby to break the nurse to sleep habit and frequent night wakings. In theory this book is awesome. Also if you have the patience, this is an awesome plan. Unfortunatley, for my son and me, I have little patience and a low tolerance of frustration. SO after getting all excited that I had found a way to break my bad habits with no crying, I tried it for like 2 nights and gave up.

My reason for writing this post is that IF you try this and it does not work, Tracy's Pick up Put Down method will. It worked for my baby, and it was actually less tears than I planned.  Now Tracy and Elizabeth, the author of The No Cry SLeep Solution, have a lot of common ideas. I think that even Elizabeth says at the end of her book if you are getting nowhere with her ideas to try a plan that mimics Tracey's. 

I wish anyone trying her plan the best of luck! Just know if it doesn't work, or if you just can't take it anymore, there is another option besides letting your baby cry it out.

~Natalie

[joaquinsmom]

Sandra, Betsy Anh, how did last night go?

We didn't get a lot of sleep last night. We wento to visit my parents because they were leaving for a weeklong trip this morning and they wanted to spend a little time with ds. We ended up leaving at around 9:30 or so. We got home and ds was already cranky. So I took him to his room, bf and he fell asleep. It took a few tries to do the removal, but it was ok. He slept pretty well until about 1 A.M. I was still awake at that hour because I had work to do    so I went to his room and since he was wide awake I just went ahead and bf again. After that he woke up a couple of times, and then at 3 dh brought him to bed with us (I already told him not to do that but we were just too tired). Nobody really got any sleep after that... oh well

The good thing is that I didn't lose my patience last night. Part of it was that I finally got it in my head that this will be a long process, and the other thing is that I found out yesterday that a friend's 3 kids were kidnapped by their dad (they separated about 4 months ago) and she hasn't seen them in 3 months. That just breaks my heart. Her little boy is just a little older than my MJ and I can't even begin to imagine how I would feel if I couldn't hold my little angel or even see him or know that he's ok. I just kept thinking how lucky I am to have a loving husband who would never do that, and to be able to see my lo every day and know that he is always with people who love him and take good care of him. I feel so horrible for complaining so much all the time instead of being grateful for being so blessed. So last night he could've kept me the whole entire night and I wouldn't have cared.

I hope your nights were good and your little ones are safe and happy.

[BetsyAnh]

Natalie- i completely agree with you! my situation, however requires a 'no-cry' solution because i live with the in-laws at the moment and if my LO cries they think something is terribly wrong, and will come and whisk her away from me... :twisted:  :twisted:  i am moving to Panama in the new year, and if she still wakes in the night, then i'm going to try a combination of the pu/pd, no cry techniques..... it worked when she was very little and once i try and implement it when she is a year, i will let ya'll know how it goes (hopefully she'll be sleeping through by then, though!!)

Sandra- i'm so happy for you!!! now, you and your dh keep it up and keep us posted!!! you're giving everyone hope and shining some light at the end of that very long and sleepy tunnel! can you please just post how you are putting her to sleep (once in the cot, what do you do? cues, music, etc) so you can share with other mommies?

Jennifer- what i have noticed with mine, is, although i more or less keep to the routine (unless too tired, or she's too fussy... i see a tooth that hasn't cut through yet!!) i DO see improvement but then there will be a night (or naptime) where she wakes up quite fussy and i have to resort to bf and gentle removal... otherwise, i can usually just cuddle her and put her down-- i see rocking to sleep as the next step from bf because you can just decrease the time of rocking (i count to 11 after she puts her head on my shoulder for the last time, then put her down at the moment) and eventually place in cot just drowsy/awake.. that's what i'm aiming for right now, decreasing from 11 seconds (sometimes more ) there have even been a few times where i have not had to pick her up, i can just rub her back and say my shhhh and cues- THAT is where i am seeing progess! there are 'regression' days/nights but on the whole, she is FINALLY starting to wake up happy and babbiling from her naps, and i am not having to bf for EVERY nightwaking. in the past (because i could not stick to the pu/pd...IL's...) i have found that jumping right into a different approach, created a COMPLETE regression, and she got VERY anxious before sleeptime to the point that she would not even let me put her in her cot (thankfully this only lasted for a day)-- so here is the advice i wanted to give you: if you have the patience for the 'no-cry' solution, then keep it gentle and gradual and you WILL see progress over time. the other night you wanted to 'stick to your guns' and comfort your LO whil he was in his cot and not take him out which led to both of you getting very upset. i don't think that (i PROMISE i am not trying to critisize you, you are a great mommy and doing what is best for you and your baby!!) jumping ahead a few phases (as in 1st post) or starting a new method and not sticking to it is the answer for you and your little bambino... if you are losing patience (and/or sleep!!) and you want to start a new method that takes less time in the long run, but means less sleep for you and your LO in the short run, and if you can handle a bit of crying, do the pu/pd method, stick to it and and you WILL see progress over time, as Natalie also posted.  Again, you know what is best for the both of you, and it's great that you have such a supportive husband who ALSO has as much patience as you-- may be try the shared approach as in my last post?

i wish everyone a good night sleep, or atleast a good couple of hours!!!!!
xx betsy

[Just B and Me]

Jennifer

I want to say I am so sorry to hear of your friend's misfortune! It is too sad that things like that happen. It is also things like that that really put everything into perspective, like you said you started feeling like you had no room to complain that your baby wasn't sleeping well and you are just happy your baby is still with you!

When I was pregnant, all I could do was gripe about having to quit my pretty well paying job, move out of my own place and in with my parents, sell my little sporty car to get a 4-door for a carseat, and quit going out drinking and all with my friends. My pregnancy was unplanned and very unexpected, so I was thinking of all the sacrifices I had to make that I wasn't ready for. Then one day, a guy I went to school with said his wife just miscarried their baby after 3 months of pregnancy. He was so sad, and said his wife was crying a lot. At that point I was put into perspective and realized how lucky I was to still be carrying my baby, and thinking how I would give up a million sporty little cars just to have my baby.  It is always unfortunate for devastating things to happen to people we know, but at least we can learn from it and realize right away what we DO have!

Ok this post is kinda random and not sleep related, but I just wanted to share.

~Natalie