Anyone want to talk about the 2-1 transition? Thread #24

[Straffles]

Aishi, I was thinking about your situation and wondering this: could the 1HR 20 AND the 1HR 30 nap be UT?

I mean, didn't you reduce LO's AT right down from 5HR to 4.5HR so she could catch up, finding she did 2.5HR naps again? Perhaps she has caught up and needs a little more AT now? Perhaps the difference in those ten minutes is that at 4.5HR she's UT, and at 4HR 40 she's a little less UT but still not tired enough for a big nap? That's my thought anyway. We have had both 1HR 20 and 1Hr 30 UT naps in the 2-1.

Anyway, things here are not improving with the NWs. A 2HR 05 nap today ending at 1.35pm and BT at 6.10pm and he's already woken crying at 6.45pm. That's three nights in a row a NW around 30 mins after BT, the last two nights also followed by another NW an hour or so later. Last night, he self-settled at both, but there were two later NWs needing a bf. Tonight I had to bf as after 5 mins he was getting far too awake and upset.

I don't know what else I can do to help him manage the OT.

[eva026]

Hi Ladies

I'm hopping on this board as I think DD is starting the 2-1 transition. Bit early but she has always been low on sleep needs so I guess it makes sense.
Right now we are on a WU of 7-8am, a morning A of 3.5h, then a 1.5-2h nap and then the trouble starts.... she can easily do a 4h 2nd A time but if I let her, the next nap comes out a 5pm and she's UT for BT at 8m and wont go down. So I've been taking a mad baby to bed after a shorter A time and capping that nap.
Lots of clock watching and apoping.
I'm wondering what happens when the 1st A time gets longer?? Now we are just managing to fit a long and and a CN and not having an OT/UT baby, I can't see how this will work in the long term.

[jessmum46]

Hi Eva, how long a CN are you doing ATM and what A time afterwards?

[eva026]

Hi Katherine:)
It kind of depends, I try to get her up by 5pm so she has an A time of at least 3h before BT
So if she woke early and/or had a 1.5h first nap I let her sleep 4-5pm but if the day started later or the first nap was long I apop her to sleep around 4.30pm and she only gets in 30min.
Today she woke at 8.15am (went to bed at 9pm last night because DH let her have a 1.5h 2nd nap:/), her first nap was 11.45-2pm and I managed to apop her to sleep at 4.30pm-5.10pm and we'll see what happens at BT. Her 2nd A time was mega short but I wouldn't have been able to fit a CN otherwise.

[Aishi]

Straffles what are your a times atm? Am a 4.5h and pm at 4.5h+??? I'm thinking that as you're getting good 2.5+h naps you're first at is fine but maybe the long first a means B needs a shorter second a regardless of nap length? So a long am a would override shorter pm a and prevent OT nws? I remember reading it in toddler posts and ive only realised my ds is like that since st so his first a can be 6.5-7h but pm a no longer than 5.5 regardless of nap length dykwim? So maybe you need to keep a shorter pm a to get rid of OT nws and let lo sleep in in the mornings? So if wu was 7, nap 11.30-2, BT 6?? Wdyt?


Hi and welcome Eva. I don't think your lo is ready o transition if a times are just 3.5? They're generally start when a times are 4-4.5. What woul normally happens is you would have a long am or pm nap ad one or the other would be CN in a 13h day if necessary to keep a ones reasonable. Dykwim? Apologies if I've got it wrong- on my phone and it isn't the easiest to post on!

I think youre right straffles about ut naps with dd but im really wary about changes since it all went wrong! :/
So dd easy yesterday was 6.10 wu
A 4h20
Nap 10.30-12.55 woke and resettled at 40min mark (wdyt that was about?)
A 3h
Nap 3-4 capped
BT 7
Nw 4-4.30 happy nw

Today

Wu 6.55
A 4h30
Nap 11.25-2.40 woke at 40 min mark again and oil 15min to resettle cos I was with ds
A 4h20
BT 7 she was fed ready to sleep by then. I think that's where I was going wrong before. I increased pm a too quickly and that led to early eve nws and accumulated OT. Which is why I think your ds is similar straffles....if you're getting good am nap then rather than decreasing first at maybe try decreasing second and see how that affects nws?

Hope set naps are still working for you Katherine I really admire you for braving it!

Anyways happy holidays all! xx

[Straffles]

Thanks Aishi, I think you're probably right but I don't see how I can go for earlier BTs... The earlier his BT, the earlier his WU it seems. So his AT to BT is determined by time nap ends really and the difference between that and 6/6.30BT.

Anyway, we've got an EW here and day started just before 6am. AT is 4HR 30 and so we're going to have to try for our first two nap day in weeks.

Thing is, I just don't know how to go about this - please help if you are at all online on Xmas night?!!

If he sleeps less than 2 hours, what AT to the CN?? Last time he took a CN it was 3HR 15 for a UT CN. That was weeks ago. If he sleeps 2 hours, til 12.30, surely I have to wake him up and then what AT to CN? If it's 4HR 15 then wdn't that make the day too long? And, what if he won't settle for CN? BT at 6pm, but then what, given he's already OT?

Please help if you can.

[Aishi]

I don't think you have much choice hon. I think that even if he doesn't tack on you're better off doing EBT and then 2 naps the next day to prevent OT accumulating at least until hes ready to increase his a times. Dd had a 2 nap day yesterday with 4h20 first a, 1.5h nap, 3h second at (she went down without a peep so I guess OT. Maybe your lo will do same after 3h a??) and 1h capped nap followed by 3h a to BT at 7. Ds may surprise you...

[Straffles]

You're totally right, no choice!

Just don't want to risk him not taking that CN, yk?

I can't see HOW he wd take it after 3HRs after a 2hr nap. I see your EASY but I think your LO higher sleep needs!

Oh god, I don't know what to do. Thonk I will cap nap if he goes for two hours though to be in hope for a CN. But then CN at 3HRS? 3HRs 15? 4HRs 15??

[Straffles]

So Benji was still asleep after 2HRS at 12.30 so I had to wake him

Now I have no idea what time to offer CN. Going for 3HR 30 just because don't think he'll go early early after a good nap?! So that's 4pm.

If he doesn't sleep, it will have to be EBT of 6pm and thus 5HR 30 to BT when I know he can't manage more than 4HR 30.

So, do things just get worse from hereon in with earlier and earlier NWs and EWs? Or could he be tired enough to make up the sleep. What else can I do to stop things getting worse? DP is at work from 8am to 8pm tomorrow.

[Straffles]

Benji refused the CN. So now I'm trying EBT at 6pm on the back of a 2HR capped nap that ended at 12.30.

What happens now? How can I try to rescue things tomorrow presuming we will have an early start because he's SO overtired.

Worst Christmas ever.

[Aishi]

Hugs hon. It's a pita this 2-1!. It's too late now but I would def not suggest capping nap whilst transitioning! Like I ive said before you're better off dealing with EW and having a longer 2 nap day after a one nap day with EBT ratherthan causing OT by nap capping. Yes! Lots of nws and ews it's the nature of the beast! But once you've transitioned it'll settle down you just have to ride it out. Panicking about it and trying to fit every scenario is just not going to help you or your anxiety at all....

Dd had the perfect one nap day yesterday. Sttn and woke at 5.40 cos of a poop...see what I mean? Things just won't got to our plans or needs ATM (if ever!). So today I'm going to have to have a 2 nap day unless she naps for 4hrs lol

I understand your need for rules but theyre going to have to be flexible. If it helps this is my plan to go forward. On a good nap day

Wu 7
Nap 11.30-2/2.30
BT 6.30/7

On a crappy day (like today will be)

Wu 5.40
Nap 10.10-12.30 (uncapped so I'm just guessing)
Nap 4.30-4.50 capped
BT 7

If doesn't take CN then SEBT of 5.15/5.30 and fx'd for tackin on!

Hth!

[jessmum46]

Just popping in to offer some (((hugs))) Straffles.  None of us are finding this easy, but equally none of us have the 'right' answers.  I certainly don't and Js decided to cut another molar so we're in a bit of a mess.  But it is what it is and we're just having to deal with it the best we can.  Are you getting some IRL support with your anxiety?

[Straffles]

Thank you for your support thank you so much.

Benji refused the CN and went for EBT of 6pm but he was too OT and I had to feed him again so he didn't settle til 6.20pm, just now.

I realised after the fact that I shouldn't have capped that nap at 2HRS. So, in future, if he goes down for nap before 11am, still just let him sleep if he can, right? Even if he wakes before 1pm and has done say 2.5 hours and it will be a long AT to BT and you know he won't take a CN?

Also, how do I know WHEN to offer CN? Today he was obviously UT at 3.5HRS after the 2HR capped nap, so do you just guess, hope and go for EBT?

I know I do appreciate what you are saying about RULES! ANd I understsand they must be flexible. I guess if I don't have a plan, I just get more anxious. At least if I have a plan, I can rest, yk?

RE. anxiety. I have sought a lot of support, some helpful, some not so. It's been a bad day today I guess.

Thank you all.if you do have any answers to above questions, I'd really appreciate them. Would my last few days' EASY help?

Am just scared he will get so OT now that the EWs become earlier and earlier.

AIshi, your sample EASYs confuse me just bceause I don't know what you would do/have done if there is a good, long nap but no chance of CN and too long to BT? Sorry, I'm probably just going on and on. I appreciate your reading me!

[Straffles]

Sorry Aishi, I realise you did put down an EASY that explains that! How did you come up with the 4HRS to CN after a 2HR+ nap though?

[jessmum46]

I honestly don't know how you know when to do a CN I've tried at various times and had every single attempt at a pm CN refused. Basically if she sleeps 30 mins or more in the am she won't take another nap now.  So if she seems really tired or cranky and has woken early, I offer a morning CN (possibly in car) after 3 hours or so for a max 25 mins.  Let me reiterate again J NEVER slept in car or went down UT before the OT started to build in this transition, but sometimes will do now. I then try a longer nap a couple of hours later (at 11.30) which she will usually settle for, though its not often a properly long nap.  I do BT as early as I can, and accept that the night might be rough, then hope for a better wakeup tomorrow.  We get occasional good days but mostly not so great.  Trying a set nap time isn't working miracles yet but I'm trying to stick with it, allowing for a short am CN as well if I think she needs it to catch up a bit.  Maybe you could try that on early waking days if the pm CN isn't working for you? Benji sounds fairly similar to J in how he's handling things.

From my perspective Straffles you're really not doing too badly . Most of your naps are at least 2h? We've had three 2h naps in the last month!  I'm glad you're getting some support with the anxiety IRL and obviously here to hold hands too