37 nights in..... here's where we are.. Things going downhill fast!

[katie80]

Argh (((hugs))), hon. Do you think anything else is bothering her? That is so many times to be awake!

[nevinsmama]

She is happy as a clam today! The first 2 hours the wakings were right at the 20 minute mark, which is discomfort usually right? Then she went an hour, then 3.5, then more up and down.  But yes, happy and VERY vocal, making tons of new noises. She is getting closer to crawling also. Could that cause THAT much wobbly sleep? And after one of our better napping days, by this bizzare theory, tonight should be great, I mean we have had all of 1.5 hour sleep today!! . I just want her to get caught up, sweet girl!! Will let you know how it goes, I would say how bad can it be, but I know I will eat my words

[nevinsmama]

Oh, and we have two extra people here in the house.. my Uncle and my Sister. They are both totally low key and quiet though... surely that couldn't do all that. She is a touchy though... But hey, one of my parenting rules I gave myself after my son got older was "Don't make it more than it is.." Which is fine but 9 wakeups??? 

[katie80]

She's getting close to this developmental leap (http://www.thewonderweeks.com/index.php/about-the-wonder-weeks/your-babys-10-leaps/mental-leap-6), so all those new sounds and pre-crawling practice could have something to do with the disrupted sleep.  Nine times still seems like a bit much, but if she's touchy, I'm assuming the littlest thing can throw her off.   Hopefully, it was a one-off!

[nevinsmama]

I am the Worst. Mother. Ever. WEnt up to bed last night, laid down on the bed, apparently fell asleep immediately and forgot to turn the monitor on. Around 3 DH came up and asked if someone else was monitoring Ivy. Of course I said no and panicked. Turned it on and thankfully it was quiet. About 20 minutes later she woke up and I went right down and fed her. I begged DH not to tell me how long she cried or anything. I really think he would have checked sooner if it had been a REAL cry. Or I sure hope so. SHe didn't seem warped or anything when I went in to feed her. Feeling awful about that.

She had very similar evening to 2 nights ago last night. Lots of early wakings.  MAD voice. But easy to settle. Went down a treat for 1st nap after 3hr10.

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), honey, you're not the worst mom ever, just a tired one. I'm sure someone would've heard her if she was really crying, esp with other guests in the house.

[nevinsmama]

OK, we are still here. And are still so very tired. At least I am,  and I know all this choppy sleep can't be all that resorative for Ivy either! Can someone help me come up with a plan?

Our day sleep situation is not helping our nights I am sure. I just can;t seem to find the magic A for her although I suspect I have pushed too much and her 1hr10-1hr15 naps were actually OT. We were also getting some weird 27 minute naps that were totally unextendable. She would fly into a rage if I tried to
lay her down again...Does severe OT sometimes act like UT? We have been shuffling A's trying to get things right (probably need to stick with things more but things seem to get out of hand quickly with her and I want to avoid long NW's like the plague!!) We also get some naps ( Pm mostly, that are a 30minute bump needing help, then resettling but only sleeping 30 more minutes, at the most!!! Still OT wouldn't you think? Sorry for all the questions but I feel like if I am able to better sort her day out then surely our nights will improve. And I don't know how to interpret all this silly day sleep we have been getting. OK the most reasonable day we had went something like this:
A3hr10
S1hr18
A3hr10
S 27 minutes, had to do insane AP to get another 40 minutes out of her! Nursed her in the dark and held her on my chest, took 30 minutes of that to get another 40 minutes of sleep!!
After that we did EBT and have a good night ( only 4 NW's)

ANd yesterday: Kind of helter skelter as we had Very Bad Night with TONS of NWs so I totally AP'd the 1st nap out of exhaustion. SHe fed to sleep and got a 1 hr 45 nap after only 2hr45A. THen did 3hr15A and got another 1hr weirdness nap ( I say weirdness because I did W2S at 15 minutes as I thought the 27 minute thing was becoming habitual) Then she burbled at 32 minutes but went back to sleep, then slept another 22 minutes. After 2h45 more A she fell asleep nursing was out for the night at 6:20.

Thought we would have a better night for having FINALLY gotten more day sleep but she needed help 3 times before 11:00 when I fed her. THen I almost went in to help her at 2:24. Then I fed her at 3:15 ( I had been doing the 6 hour feeding push but I was so tired I just fed her) THen help at 4:42 and then up at 5:43.

So, any thouhgts? I need a plan to stick with and see if it works to help her out, I mean she is 8 months now!!! I just get all tired and stuck in the middle of this and can't see which way we need to be headed. Thanks so much...

[nevinsmama]

Just thought of a couple more things..... We have been getting all of 2 hours day sleep lately!! And if our nights are any indications, this is not enough! But, on the Sleep Faq's it is reccomended that at this age they have 1-2 hour naps 2 times a day and 10-12 hours at night? SUrely she is not getting enough sleep though? Don;t you need at least 1.5 hr for it to be really restful??

ALso, we might be on a slippery slope with out PUPD as what works most quickly is for me to hold her until she is quite calm and lay her down while talking to her, then she rolls over and goes right back to sleep, but perhaps the PU part is getting to be propish? Just not sure... we just want some sleep!

[katie80]

So, any thouhgts? I need a plan to stick with and see if it works to help her out, I mean she is 8 months now!!! I just get all tired and stuck in the middle of this and can't see which way we need to be headed.

Have you tried set times with her?  You can either do set nap times or set A times (I'd go with A time if I were you).  I do think she needs something consistent for a good two weeks before you change anything.  As she's just 8mo, I'd go with either 3h15min or 3h30min (whatever you think would be best) and hold there pretty much no matter what.  I'm not sure if Katherine has done set naps; if not we can grab another pair of eyes for you.  But, if you hold everything the same for a good two weeks, you should start to see a pattern develop and you can work from there.  Right now, nothing stays the same and so there's not much to go on.

ALso, we might be on a slippery slope with out PUPD as what works most quickly is for me to hold her until she is quite calm and lay her down while talking to her, then she rolls over and goes right back to sleep, but perhaps the PU part is getting to be propish?

I think if you're questioning it, it's probably iffy.  Even with poor naps, she should be able to sleep a somewhat decent night and re-settle herself, esp with you feeding her every 4-6hr still.  If you decide to try the set naps and want to continue doing nights as you are, you can start to get a bit stricter on your help after you start to see her level out some in her day sleep.  That being said, I don't think you want to wait until your day sleep gets fully sorted, because that's in essence what you're doing now and it's turned into a continual cycle for you.  (((Hugs))), I think I've said this before, but I was totally in your shoes with my DS at about 8mo.  It's tough.

What do you think?

[nevinsmama]

You can either do set nap times or set A times (I'd go with A time if I were you).  I do think she needs something consistent for a good two weeks before you change anything.  As she's just 8mo, I'd go with either 3h15min or 3h30min (whatever you think would be best) and hold there pretty much no matter what.  I'm not sure if Katherine has done set naps; if not we can grab another pair of eyes for you.

I think this is a plan. I have been hunting around so much to find "the magic number" and when things go wrong, hunting some more. I think 3hr15 would be our best bet. Would this also be 3hr15 to BT after our dubious 2nd nap? Or if it is less than an hour, should I do 2hr? What about if we get horrid 2nd nap and have to do a CN ( only if she wakes before 2:30 otherwise I have no more fear of a 5:30 BT!!!)

I still suspect she is hypersensitive to OT, just keep holding to the A and hope it sorts out??? I don't feel like all the hunting for the perfect A is really the best thing to do... but I felt we were so close, but our naps are really no prize!!
Despite our sketchy nights I have pushed our 1st NF out to 5 hrs in and then I don't feed until morning. Which is a big step but just felt like she was ready..... hope she continues to settle easily!

As far as the PU..hold briefly...PD I will see how it goes, do you think a gradual process is best for this??

 Just this evening we were out ( brave for me and her!!) at the IL's and came home late and she slept part of the way home. I had to change her diaper when I got home so she was wound up and OT and OS and the works!! Up and down and pat and talk and finally she settled down and got REALLY drowsy in my arms and I laid her down. Obviously this is a unusual day but I know if we head down the OT path I have a feeling I could still be in there, for a while! I guess what I am getting at is how strictly should I hold to this if things start to go belly-up?

Ok, I always do better with a plan.. Thanks so much!!!

[jessmum46]

We're a touch ahead of you as J is now mainly on one nap but I am trying out a set nap at the moment.  The idea is that you pick times based on what your LO can realistically handle at the moment, and you stick to those give or take 15-30mins.  You can choose how rigid to be about WU and bedtime - I know one mum here stuck to set BT but would let LO sleep in if needed.  I prefer to set WU to within a 30 min window and then be more flexible about BT, but it doesn't really matter as long as you are consistent.

So for example, with a 7am WU and 3h15 A time (assuming 1.5h naps) you could do:

WU 7am ideal - keep in room until then
Nap 10.15am (10am earliest)
Nap 3pm (2.45pm earliest)
BT 7.45pm (7.15pm earliest) - allowing a touch more flexibility at BT

The idea is you stick to your set times no matter what for at least a week to give LO's body clock a chance to adjust.  Some days can be rough - it's possible you might only get two 30 minute naps.  I've just seen you think that she is very sensitive to/doesn't handle OT well though...........I think probably I'd exhaust the set A times route first as that has more flexibility for EWs and short naps, but am here to hold your hand if you decide to go for the set naps

[nevinsmama]

Hmm. thinking given DD's personality and what all, that starting with set A's is the best way to start. 3hr15 means our first nap will come at 9:30 today. After a 8:22 BT!!!!! YIkes, but we have to start somewhere! Ok, here goes!!!!! Thank you!!

[nevinsmama]

Just a quick positive note on the NF situation, she woke at 11 last night after being fed at 7, and then taking forever to unwind from being out, finally out at 8:22. Then she woke at 2 and I guess I was in a DEEP sleep because I automatically walked over to her bed, picked her up, quick cuddle, then back out until 3:20!! And now we are up, bright and early! Oh well! Happy 2013!

[katie80]

Sounds like a plan.  I would try really hard not to do 3 naps at this stage and just go for the EBT, but if you think you absolutely need to, then do.  You know her best!

As far as the PU..hold briefly...PD I will see how it goes, do you think a gradual process is best for this??

I'm not sure how you'd gradually get rid of it, tbh.  Maybe just hold a little less every couple nights? I basically just stopped it altogether with my DS, but he's not nearly as touchy as my DD, so I can understand wanting to go gently.  Great news on extending the NFs, well done!  FX you don't have to continue to resettle as much soon!

[nevinsmama]

Quote from: katie80 on Today at 19:57:22
Sounds like a plan.  I would try really hard not to do 3 naps at this stage and just go for the EBT, but if you think you absolutely need to, then do.  You know her best!

Oh I agree!!! Pending anything like a 27 minute nap ending at 2, we  won't!!!
As far as a GW plan, we may very well  have to just have to plow through.....guess I will find out!!! Sort of hoping once the days settle the nights will follow.... to some degree!!!

So far we have had
A3hr15
S1hr15
A3hr5
S 1hr (with 25 and 35 minute burble but didn't need help)

So we have 6:15 BT. Hoping for a good night, DH is taking 2nd shift with her so I can sleep!!! Can't wait for some sleep!! He goes back to work tomorrow night so this is like his good-bye present I guess! Yay!
Thanks so much....