37 nights in..... here's where we are.. Things going downhill fast!

[katie80]

Side note...DS is drawing a picture that will help Ivy sleep. Thank goodness!!

LOL, love it.

As for getting rid of the PU, I think you should just stop doing it rather than try to wean it. Holding her for less amount of time probably isn't really going to do anything but make the process to longer, and she might fight you on that anyway. That being said, I tend to be a bit more of the 'rip the bandaid off' type than the gradual type. So, you need to do what you think is best.

She is pulling up to stand, right? So, you will go to her, lie her down while saying your sleep phrase and then settle a bit in the crib if needed. If she pulls back up to stand, repeat. But, just like PUPD, if she's not crying while she pulls up you leave her, only put her down when she needs you. The details are in the age adaptations for PUPD: How to PU/PD (inc age adaptations). I never bothered with putting DS down facing away from me, I just put him down like I laid him down to go to sleep, said my sleep phrase, and otherwise tried to stay unengaged.

Does that help? I know she's sensitive to OT, but I do think even with what she's getting for naps, she likely can sleep more solid nights than she's getting now. My DD was a bit touchy with OT, but was a pretty great night sleeper as long as she wasn't teething.

[nevinsmama]

As for getting rid of the PU, I think you should just stop doing it rather than try to wean it. Holding her for less amount of time probably isn't really going to do anything but make the process to longer, and she might fight you on that anyway.

This is what I had gotten to yesterday as well. Committed myself to no PU even if it meant some rough nights.
Last night was an eye opener. SHe settled more quickly with me handing her her lovey and telling her "night night, sleepy time" etcc than when I picked her up! This is how it went:
Down at 6:20. Grizzle grizzle for 17 minute OUt at 6:37
8:50 awake back out at 9
11:10 Feed
3:00 woke up ( we have had issues with 3:00 before) put herself right back to sleep!!!
4:50 Feed ( we will work on this one!)
5:57 Woke up and thought we were going to start the day but something told me not to be too hasty. Handed her her lovey and told it was night night and what all and laid down in the twin bed in the nursery. SHe went back to sleep!!! Until 7:04!!
So we are on a new path here, more progress!! Maybe we will still have some rough nights but only PU if she is really upset and only for a second.

She is pulling up to stand, right?

Not quite yet, but not far off.

Does that help?

YES! Most definitely, there is hope! Now I just need to tattoo "less is more" or something of the sort on my forehead so I will remember.....

[katie80]

Now I just need to tattoo "less is more" or something of the sort on my forehead so I will remember.....

Hehehe!!!

That really sounds good and is exactly what Tracy thought for this age in that link I posted...

8 MONTHS TO A YEAR - At this age you really don’t do any pick up as babies 8 months and up tend to soothe faster in the crib. 

And yes, since she's not pulling up, if you absolutely must PU...

•   If you feel they are truly frantic and need more you can pick them up for a moment but you put them straight back down. 

Sounds like you're on the right track hon, and WOOHOO on the 7am wake-up!  FX for more!!!

[nevinsmama]

I think this could get ugly.....oh Ivy. Nights are getting better. This is for sure. Daytimes are just getting awful, she is still basically her sweet self, but we had 1 hour 28 minutes TOTAL sleep today.

 Last nights I settled 2.5 hours in, took 3 minutes. Then around 10:42 I actually sat up on the bed, ready to go to her, then she went back to sleep until 12:15. Fed her then. at 4:50 I actally got as far as walking to the crib from the bed but never had to do anything. Back to sleep until 5:52! Which made for a 11.5 hour night. Not bad Ivy!

3.5 hours in we got a 57 minute nap. 3.5 hours later we got an unextendable 27 minute nap. I had to take both LO's out to do errands and since her 2nd nap ended at 2:21 I thought this might actually be a day for a CN. I put towels over the window in the car. I gave DS the laptop with a DVD so he wouldn't go all Monkey-Man when she was getting ready to sleep. I let her suck on my pinkey finger. NO SLEEP!!! And it was a 30 minute drive each way!!! YIkes!! So her A after her 27 minute nap was 4.5 hours. Oh my, I think I had better go to bed.....

Any thoughts on this?

A couple questions.....

At what point is it still OK to do EBT. Is a 3 hr10 A after a cr@pnap still better for her than adding on a CN at this age? This is what I would have had to do just to get to 5:30 today, of course my plan blew up anyway, but just for future reference.

Is there a W2S "time" that I could go in and rustle her and help her sort of skim over this napping nonsense of 1 hourish nap and then the broken ( if I am lucky) 1 hour nap?

I know I have only been really holding this new A for a couple days, should I just hold it  and ride this out, I can sense a long NW coming and they are just sort of soul-sucking.

Should I be more consistent in the 3.5hrA in her last awake time? For instance anything under one hour do 3 hours. Over one hour ( ha!) do 3.5 Or is it OK to make an educated ( somewhat) guess there.

The last 2 bedtimes we had long A before BT due to awful 2nd nap and after she nursed she started smiling and clucking at me. I think she is giddy with OT!
Thanks again for all your help...

[nevinsmama]

Oh help! Just had a 36 minute AM nap. Tried and tried to get her back  to sleep. Would. Not. Go. I can see her having one glorious hour of sleep. All. Day. Any words Mamas???

[jessmum46]

Shorten your next A time - she won't handle 3.5h after a 36 min nap.  I'd be ready from 2-2.5h and watch her like a hawk for cues.  I notice you didn't shorten your A time after yesterday's am nap - I would suggest shortening a little after any nap less than 1.5h.  The shorter the nap, the shorter the following A time.  Good luck for today

[nevinsmama]

Have you tried set times with her?  You can either do set nap times or set A times (I'd go with A time if I were you).  I do think she needs something consistent for a good two weeks before you change anything.  As she's just 8mo, I'd go with either 3h15min or 3h30min (whatever you think would be best) and hold there pretty much no matter what.  I'm not sure if Katherine has done set naps; if not we can grab another pair of eyes for you. 

ncy pla

I am sorry if I am being dense but in my cutting back ( I don't doubt that she needs it)  but is this sort of the exception to the " no matter what". Emergency plan I guess....??

Just took her out for a walk in the backpack, fresh air helps. Both of us.

If she cuts this nap short should I do the same thing until a "decent" BT??

Thanks.... losing perspective here..

[jessmum46]

Ah I see, ok.  So the way I've always done "set" A time is to stick with the first A time being the same no matter what for several days in a row, and be more flexible with the second and third A times depending on naps.  My reasoning being that I'd try what I could to prevent OT at BT so that the next day she should be able to handle a normal A time first thing.  And once I'd stuck with the same first A time for a few days, I could normally tell whether she needed a bit more or less and would tweak accordingly.  Once I had a relatively good first nap, I worked on the second A time.  Does that kind of make sense?  Katie may have a different perspective but my feeling is that sticking with a 3h15 A time after a 36 min nap is only possibly going to cause OT which is not going to help you figure out what she needs.

[katie80]

Katie may have a different perspective but my feeling is that sticking with a 3h15 A time after a 36 min nap is only possibly going to cause OT which is not going to help you figure out what she needs.

No, I have the same perspective.  FWIW, we had several days of 2x25-35 min naps at around 8.5mo.  They are a total pain, but we made it through.

She really is a tough cookie to crack, isn't she?  (((Hugs))), hon.

[nevinsmama]

Ah I see, ok.  So the way I've always done "set" A time is to stick with the first A time being the same no matter what for several days in a row, and be more flexible with the second and third A times depending on naps.  My reasoning being that I'd try what I could to prevent OT at BT so that the next day she should be able to handle a normal A time first thing.  And once I'd stuck with the same first A time for a few days, I could normally tell whether she needed a bit more or less and would tweak accordingly.  Once I had a relatively good first nap, I worked on the second A time.  Does that kind of make sense?  Katie may have a different perspective but my feeling is that sticking with a 3h15 A time after a 36 min nap is only possibly going to cause OT which is not going to help you figure out what she needs.

I think this is the way for us to go. Got a 41 minute nap, then settle for 5. Then another 35 until 2:05. Soldiering on to a 5:30 BT.
Total day sleep: 1hr46.

Tomorrow's another day huh?

Katie may have a different perspective but my feeling is that sticking with a 3h15 A time after a 36 min nap is only possibly going to cause OT which is not going to help you figure out what she needs.

No, I have the same perspective.  FWIW, we had several days of 2x25-35 min naps at around 8.5mo.  They are a total pain, but we made it through.

She really is a tough cookie to crack, isn't she?  (((Hugs))), hon.

OK, sorry if Icouldn't see the forest for the trees there ::)Thank you both so much!!

[katie80]

OK, sorry if Icouldn't see the forest for the trees there

No worries, hon, it happens to all of us!

[nevinsmama]

Had one GREAT night!!! 2 nights ago. 13 hours she slept after a 5:32 BT! WOke at 2 to eat, burbled at 4:50 went back to sleep until 6:20!

Now she is not feelling well, I have hardly put her down all day.  Naps beside me after nursing or on the boppy.

 I am sure she will be better soon and I will have the tools for more good nights. I hope!!

[katie80]

Oh (((hugs))), it's never fun when these LOs aren't well. Hope she's feeling better soon and yay for the great night!

[katie80]

Hey hon... just checking in to see how things are going. Hope little Ivy is on the mend!

[nevinsmama]

Thank you for checking on us Katie, I really appreciate it. Ivy IS on the mend, I am pretty sure she is back to her old self now! And with 2 teeth ! Think we are ready for an A bump as we are more than a week into this 3.5hr 1st A and no sign of any nap more than an hour. May start that tomorrow. Educated guesses on the rest of the day seem to be doing OK at least we are keeping away from shockingly short and unextendable naps! Lots of early evening up and down (hmm. this could improve if we could get just one restorative nap) I am taking as much of a hand-off approach as possible. Talking calmly and the occasional bum-pat seem to working pretty well. She is SO close to crawling and can scoot in a circle and backwards and gets on all fours sometimes. She has been scooting into the corner of her bed and then I pull her out and tell her "sleepytime" and sometimes put my hand on her.
Sound like a start towards that "just one good nap!" and a bit more night time sleep??? Oh, and I am not feeding before 6 hours ( a months ago I thought I would never say that, she really has come a long way!!)