25 month old gone wonky - OT spiral???

[*Kara*]

I have no idea what to do ladies and need some eyes... I can't see the forest for the trees at this point      I just know that something is wonky and I need to tweak to get us back on track ASAP for the sanity of everyone involved

So, DD was happy on this for 4-5 months...

Wake 620-645am (generally more like 630am)
Nap 1230-230pm capped, alternated with the odd day of nap start 1245pm (generally on the rare times she slept until 645am!)
BT 730pm... settled within 10-15 mins at most.  Latest asleep time 745 though rare!

She was poorly just before time change and we were in a big UT/OT mess but I got us turned around and a new routine emerged successfully!

Wake 645/7am
Nap 1-3pm (sometimes 130-330)
BT 8pm.... settled within 10-15 mins  - asleep no later than 805pm

I have not changed her BT routine or nap wind down at all... but we are a mess!

Suddenly, I have crazy nap resistance with screaming the house down, total refusals etc.. when she finally naps, it's closer to 2pm some days and then I wake her 345pm at the latest... her naps are restless (OT?) and then BT is 8pm and she takes an age to fall asleep (UT/OT?)  The time between nap end and BT is a sh!t show... hard to amuse her, she won't play independently (and normally does quite well!).. clingy etc...

I thought it was the start of the 1-0 so have let her skip nap a few times... She still does fine with a 11.5-12 hr day (I will put her to bed 615/630pm these days)... she will sleep ~12hrs overnight but OMG - she is a mess all morning until she naps... I generally can get her down easily by 1pm if she has skipped the day before's nap... and she is in a right state until she naps... then her nap will be so disrupted complete with OT wake ups at transition that I have to APOP her back down!

We are getting nowhere fast!

I have tried:
1. earlier naps - resistance is crazy!  But maybe she has some accumulated OT?
2. later naps - screaming hot mess when she is woken, clearly still tired.
3. meds - has 1 of her 2yr molars and the others are on the move though she is still eating fine and rarely gives her teething signs...  meds made no difference to her nap or settling at BT.

She skipped her nap yesterday and slept 620-610am... super cranky all morning... put her down at 1pm and she woke at 205pm - APOPd back to sleep as she wouldn't settle on her own.. back to sleep 215 - rough transition at 3pm.. cried out but resettled herself... woke her at 340pm after such a terrible nap... super cranky until BT at 8pm... took until 845pm to go to sleep... expect a true EW tomorrow.

Help?

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs, for the first time in his life Z has been crying at BT and naps on and off for weeks he is resisting lights out etc. at first I thought SA but I'm ow thinking we are dig in the 1-0 also language explosion so developmental is at play. 

Heres what we are doing, but really were in a pickle too
I have just pushed his nap out from 1pm to 1.15 and now 1.30. This causes little/less nap resistance and he takes the nap. I wake at 3.30 but now BT is too early at 7.30 so I'm going to try capping the nap at 3/3.15 if this doesn't work I'm going to have to wake him in the am as he sleeps past 7 now most days. That said we had first EW in ages this am following massive BT meltdown the night before.

[*Kara*]

Ugh Sara... as expected, these two are in sync again!

BT was a nightmare last night here too... took until 845pm for her to finally settle and go to sleep.. I didn't have to go up at all, but there was some rolling about and restlessness for sure!  She woke multiple times before I went to bed at 1030pm and once involved a cryout and resettle   My poor bubs!

As expected, EW today.  She was awake and not too pleased about it at 6am.  Gross.  I am gonna be really lucky if she makes it to noon for her nap!  I'm thinking a 2 hr capped nap and then BT 7/730pm with the hope that she settles okay - sound good?

[TB9]

2. later naps - screaming hot mess when she is woken, clearly still tired.

This is what helped us when DD went through a similar phase around the same age.  DD was obviously tired when woken up (I wake her after 1hr generally), BUT after sticking to it for a couple weeks she got used to it and is happier when I wake her from her nap.  We also switched her to a big girl bed, and got her a gro-clock around the same time.  I can't really say if one thing made the difference, but I think she feels more like a big girl and in control of things...BUT I totally understand if you aren't willing to try for the big bed at this point, things did get worse for a week or so, but then she started sleeping better than ever! 

I suspect if you push nap back and cap it a bit then you will see improvement, but it will take awhile for her to get used to it...and I still have to put something for DD to watch on the tv some days after she wakes because she just needs time to wake up

[ZacsMumme]

Ugh kara - don't take any advice from me - last night we had a 2r NW . Never have this! It was like he was scared but also talking lie your wouldn't believe following along for advice

We have pushed the nap later as tinkerbell mentions, but I'm not capping it enough I think
 

[*Becky*]

Kara, I just wanted to pop on and say that we went through this with Henry at almost the exact same age...his started at exactly 2 but went on for about 6 weeks (oh it was fun!)
The naps were the worst bit but we also had NWings and EWings...we did come out the other side. I AP'd the naps like mad as I could not cope with the horrendous nap refusals and found that even if he did a short nap in the car that meant I could do an EBT and he would do a better night.
Once we got through it naps were awesome for another 6 months before real nap dropping started and we he really started to take notice of the gro-clock too but it was a tough period. I was newly pregnant with Martha and felt like poo!!

[ZacsMumme]

Becky did you get long NW and crying ad well with the refusals or just mucking around?

[*Becky*]

we got a fear of the dark thing with the NWings and had to introduce a night light for the first time. H is not a NW'er, never has been really apart form final stages of 1-0 so it was a bit of a shock. I tried to do WIWO (which is what I use for both) but he got so upset I just stayed by the door in the end talking to him. He was def upset/scared/OT rather than messing about yk?

[ZacsMumme]

Cr$p..this is us
Have a nightlight but was going to get one of those lights they can take into bed with them like this - I'm desperate!
http://kinderglo.com/

[TB9]

We have pushed the nap later as tinkerbell mentions, but I'm not capping it enough I think

Are you both waking at 2hrs?  I think at 2yo-ish LOs don't really need a 2hr nap anymore   I know mine doesn't!  I cut DDs nap to 1.5hrs awhile ago (but she is low sleep needs) so around 24months she needed it cut down to 1hr/1hr15min.  I wouldn't be surprised if a 2hr nap is too long and it needs to be cut to 1.5hrs.

[ZacsMumme]

I think your right. Z dropped to 1.5/1hr45 ages ago then went through a sleepy patch so I piped it to 2hrs and we got 12 hr nights. That is not happening anymore!

Kara - you did similar aye? (Sorry I'm totally hijacking your thread too!) x

[*Becky*]

yup DS was having a 1.5 nap at this point, we cut it back around 22/23 months.

Sara - It passed hun...I put a night light in, it was one of the gro-eggs if you have seen them and over a week I made it dimmer and dimmer by putting 2 muslins over it so the light was very soft in the end. H cannot sleep with a light even now so I knew it would end up causing lots of issues. It got us over it though as it was there and relaxed him. These days he takes a torch to bed in case he needs to see the gruffalo

[*Kara*]

LOL The Gruffalo???

Sounds very familiar to me too ladies.. I have noticed that DD wants her light on for her milk before nap now whereas before it was out and never an issue... could be that they are at the age where they know things still exist if they can't see them and that is kinda scary!

Put DD down at 1235 today and she went to sleep about 1245 without a cry, just a bit of a chat... maybe we are coming right!?  Or maybe she is just knackered from her short night   Will allow 2 hrs given her awful night last night, but I suspect we need to trim this nap too... ugh.

[*Kara*]

Allowed the 2 hrs yesterday for nap and put her to bed at 740pm... had to go up at 745 for a quick snuggle but then she went right to sleep at 755pm... woke at 615am in a far better mood. 

Down for nap today at 120 and was asleep at 130 with no crying at all... and minimal chit chat... going to wake her now at 315pm... sigh... I am gonna miss my nice 2 hr break   BT will be 8pm tonight...

I have noticed one thing though... I find that she might be just struggling to shut her little brain down at sleep time... I generally give her a small bottle (this is a project for January!) and then pop her into the crib.. she just rolls around like a maniac for ages!  So, I had to go back up last night as she was really struggling to settle and was whimpering etc last night... sat with her in my arms for 5 mins then into the crib and I placed my hand on her chest and sang Twinkle Twinkle... seemed to help her refocus... did it again for nap and she settled far easier!  Maybe this language explosion just means she needs a bit more help to settle and happily doze off? 

That said, I don't mind extra snuggles at all

[TB9]

DD takes about 20min to settle for nap and 30min to settle for bed.  I think at this age it just takes a bit longer because of how busy their brains are...she always takes this amount of time even if I time everything perfectly, if I don't time things well she all out refuses