Help!! Awful night wakings with 4.5mo

[baby_mama]

Hi ladies,

I'm in a real pickle Up until about a month ago my DD was sleeping a good 6 hour stretch every night. In the last month we've had sickness, a possible growth spurt and holidays and now it's AWFUL. I'm doing all kinds of AP to get some sleep. Basically co-sleeping and feeding all night. She literally wakes up every hour (or more) and wriggles and thrashes around like mad. The only way to calm her is to feed her or rock her very firmly with her dummy. The thing I find odd is all the rest of her sleeping is still great. She goes down for naps like a dream and sleeps the first part of the night without a peep (before the DF). I have noooo idea what to do. I can't imagine PU/PD will work as she won't settle unless cuddled for a while or fed and the dummy alone doesn't seem to help.
I'm longing to get back to that 6hr stretch! Any tips hugely appreciated! Little love is little lady no.3 and it's rare that I'm not up in the night with one of her sister's too!

E - 6ish, goes back to sleep
A - 7.30
S - 8.30 for 1-1.5
E - 10
S - 11.30 for 2.5
E - 2
S - 3.30
E - 4.30/5ish
A - often has a bath and another small feed
S - 6
DF - 10/11

She is breastfed.
Thanks again!

H x

Edited to add - I've just realised she's cutting a tooth - could this be it? She's been absolutely fine in the day - could it just bother her at night?

[baby_mama]

Hi ladies


We've had another bad night and I just can't work out what's wrong with my daughter. When she wakes she silently writhes around like she can't breathe for a minute and then screams. I gave her ibuprofen before bed last night and she still did it. The boob or dummy and cuddling calm her but not straight away as she's doing this funny wriggling. Because of this it doesn't feel like she's waking specifically for any of these things. Would so appreciate some advice

Hx

[becj86]

I've just realised she's cutting a tooth - could this be it? She's been absolutely fine in the day - could it just bother her at night?

Yes, teeth often bother LO's more at night because there's no distraction.

Have you given her any solids/thickened a bottle with rice cereal? Could be digestive discomfort...

Is she passing gas at all? DS struggled with gas from time to time...

Had the pain meds worn off by the time she woke and screamed last night?

[baby_mama]

Thank you so much for your reply! She's fully breastfed and I'm keen to hold off on the solids until she's closer to 6mo. It could be constipation, she was quite constipated when she was teeny, maybe that's flaring up again.

To be honest last night I felt she was just waking out of habit... Used to sleeping in my bed and feeding constantly I guess I should do PU/PD? How do I know when to feed her and when do PU\PD? Feed her the first time? She's waking only 2 hours after she last fed, she had consistently been doing 6

The meds could have worn off, maybe tonight I'll wait until she wakes to give her them.

Thank you again for your reply - and happy new year!!

Hx

[becj86]

The wriggling/writhing would indicate its probably not just a habit, but there's some level of discomfort involved, IMO.

TBH, I'd go with shush/pat to sleep train at this point. PUPD is a last resort method to be used when shush/pat has been used consistently for at least 1-2 weeks with no improvement. Basically, she should be going as long at night between feeds as she does in the day, so if she's having a feed every 4hr in the day, you would wait until at least 4hr has passed before feeding at night. Decide before you go in to her whether you will feed or resettle and stick with it. If you're going to feed, do it straight away. If you're going to resettle, you have to get her back to sleep without feeding - if you cave in, you're effectively teaching her that if she cries long enough, she'll get fed.

If she has a sensitive tummy, ibuprofen may not be the best for her - have you noticed any link between med doses and tummy discomfort?

[baby_mama]

Ahh ok, hadn't realised PU/PD was more of a last resort. Basically what's been happening is she wakes a couple of hours after DF (1 or 2am) I feed her, but she doesn't resettle. I'm so tired, I bring her to bed with me and feed her on and off the rest of the night. I know it's my fault, and it's a vicious circle, the more it happens, the more tired I am!

I don't think the ibuprofen is linked as I've only given it to her once and she's been doing it for about a week now. Last night she didn't seem as wriggly in the night but she is definitely a bit more miserable in the day with her tooth. It's just popped through so hopefully won't bother her for too much longer.

She's still on a 3 hour routine in the day too, and I know that's got to change too but feel feel a bit overwhelmed by it all and not sure what to do first!

If you're going to resettle, you have to get her back to sleep without feeding - if you cave in, you're effectively teaching her that if she cries long enough, she'll get fed.

I don't want to not feed her if she's hungry but neither do I want to feed her if she doesn't need feeding! You're totally right, but it's not helped by the fact that I don't know how long she can go in the day as still doing 3 hours-ish. At 19 weeks should she definitely be able to do 4 hours?

Thanks again, so appreciate it!
Hx

[becj86]

She's still on a 3 hour routine in the day too, and I know that's got to change too but feel feel a bit overwhelmed by it all and not sure what to do first!

I missed that! That could actually be part of your problem. Have a look at this link - she really should be on 4hr EASY with at least 2hr A times by now. Time to Transition - 3hr, 3.5hr or 4hr EASY

BF babies sometimes can't go 4hr until they're established on solids (not a reason to start solids earlier), so you can feed twice in an A time, a bit like this:
7 - eat
8 - eat
9 - nap
11 - eat
12 - eat
1 - nap
etc.

[Erin M]

Or you could start with a 3.5 hour routine for a few days and see how that goes. 

[baby_mama]

Thank you SO much. Will try and start it today. So if she wakes before 1.5/2hrs I shush pat or PuPd to get back to sleep? A little bit nervous about managing it with my other two but we'll work it out!

Do you think bedtime needs to be as late as 7/7.30? Have been doing it 6/6.30 as that works well with my older two, but can aim to make it later.

Last night i fed her 4 times I think :-/ 1, 4, 5, 6! In between 1 and 4 she woke but settled easily with the dummy. Tonight I will be more determined to resettle her without a feed. She stayed in her own bed all night though so at least we made some progress

Thanks so so much for all your help, so so grateful!

Hx

[becj86]

Do you think bedtime needs to be as late as 7/7.30? Have been doing it 6/6.30 as that works well with my older two, but can aim to make it later.

Depends when she wakes for the day - you're aiming for a 12hr day and a 12hr night, so BT would be 12hr before your ideal wakeup time

[baby_mama]

Hello again,

We're still in a bit of a pickle!

We haven't quite managed the 4 hour routine as laid out as it really doesn't work for our family. A sleep between 9-11 is just impossible with a 3 and 2 year old who need to get out in the morning and then back for lunch at 12ish. So this is what we've been doing,

7 - E
1.5hr - A
8.30 - S
10 - E
1.5-2hr - A
11.30/12 - S
2.30 - E
1.5-2hr - A
4/4.30 - S
5/5.30 - E
1.5-2hr - A
6.30/7 - S
10/11 - DF

I'm really trying to stretch her A times, we usually get between 1.5 and 2hrs before she is clearly VERY tired, rubbing her eyes, crying etc.

The night before last I decided I was going to be really strict and feed her as little as possible in the night. She woke at 2 and I fed her, she was clearly v hungry, took a big feed. Between 3 and 4 I managed to settle her with little light show and stroking her face, cuddling occasionally. By 4 I had to feed her again, she kept dozing and then suddenly waking screaming as though in pain or really hungry. I think she was really hungry tbh. Although it could have been her teeth as she was grumpy in the morning too. But she greedily took a feed at 4am, really rooting around. Same happened at 6am.

I was totally exhausted yest and really discouraged.

Last night I ended up just co-sleeping and feeding on and off again. I feel between a rock and a hard place! I really want to sort this out. Am thinking will give her a bottle at the DF tonight. Any thoughts?

Hx

[JaneyJem]

Hi, I'm going through almost exactly the same situation with my 4.5 month old.  We've gone from having really decent sleeps to her waking and seeming to demand food every 2 hours throughout the night.  I'm a proper wreck and feel your pain!!

I know that I need to refuse to feed her as I'm sure she doesn't need it but at 1, 3 and 5am I can't bear the screaming that would ensue, potentially for 2 hours so I do anything I can to get her back off as quickly as possible. 

Hope it works out for you soon. 

[baby_mama]

 I'm so sorry to hear you're in the same boat - it's so tough isn't it!

I'm feeling really desperate last night was the worst ever. Her first waking was 12.30. Even has a newborn she slept a 4hour stint. I'm so tired and just have no idea what to do!

Hx

[JaneyJem]

They must be in sync. We had our worst night yet starting at 12.30!  I'm contemplating going to bed at 7pm myself just to get more than 2 hours of unbroken sleep

I think I'm going to drop her dream feed as it has no impact on how long she sleeps past midnight!

Good luck x

[baby_mama]

Me too!!! I was just saying to my husband I'm going to go to bed at 8.30 - 7 would be sensible but need to have a teeny bit of adult time after my older two are in bed also going to drop the dream feed, although she may well wake up herself. We can compare notes in the morning

Good luck!
Hx

[becj86]

She woke at 2 and I fed her, she was clearly v hungry, took a big feed.

Gulping at all? Did you burp her after? Could  be gas/wind pain waking her after this feed...

[JaneyJem]

How did it go last night?  We had more of the same really.  I didn't dream feed and she still woke at 12.30, no earlier. We did get a longer stint from 12.30 to 3.30 (luxury!). But then she was wide awake at 5.00, chattering away and crying for cuddles at 5.30.  Caffeine and matchsticks on order for me! 

I think I'm going to work on daytime naps to see if I can get them sorted in a bid to help the nighttime situation. 

x

[baby_mama]

Oh you poor thing last night was marginally better - I had two 3 hour stretches! She wok herself at 10 so fed her. She then woke again at 1 and 4.30 I fed her both times and she took a decent sized feed. I really think she's hungry but I can't seem to get her to take much more in the day?? At 5 I brought her into bed with me and she fed on off until 7.30. So I do feel more rested today but perplexed about what I can do to get her to sleep better.

Thanks so much for mentioning burping, haven't been good about that at all. Tried to be more vigilant last night.

Hx

[becj86]

How far apart are your feeds in the day? 3hrly feeds tend to be like snacking at this age, so you may find shifting feeds a little further apart helps.

FWIW, DS had a giant growth spurt at 5 months...

[baby_mama]

Thanks becj86, I'll work at getting them every 4 hours. In the link you posted about stretching from 3 to 4 hours it mentioned bf babies might not be able to go 4hrs till on solids? I'll see how we get on today with 4hrly feeds. Thanks so much for all your advice, seriously appreciate it xx

[becj86]

You can actually do it a little like this to have genuine topups and avoid snacking:
7 - wake, BF
8 - topup BF
9 - nap
11 - wake, BF

The other thing is that LO's often don't sleep the 2hr, so feeds can be 3.5hr apart with 2hr A times