Could 8mo be starting 2-1 transition already?? Eeek!

[becj86]

TBH, we did ok with two 1-1.25hr naps for a while... that could work better than the 2hr + CN option. WDYT?

[Mummybare]

Hmm, well we did about 3-4 weeks of that (usually one slightly longer, one slightly shorter) in the run-up to Christmas. We were getting quite a few evening wakes - just for the dummy, so just taking a while to fall into a deep sleep - but she'd then sleep through, so it might be a good option while we're in this AT limbo. If she'll cooperate, that is. I think she was starting to fight going down, which is why I pushed it back... Perhaps there's a magic AT around the 3hr45 mark that would give a reasonable nap (say1hr30-45), thus leaving time for a CN. I do hope so!

[Aishi]

Sorry to hijack your post but I just wanted to ask Bec when u commented that it would it be better to keep to 11hr day when transitioning to one nap is tht rather than fitting in CN and stretching day to 13-13.5h? I'm finding that as dds pm at is only about 4h15 that after a short nap or one that ends by 1.30 I need to do a CN to avoid a 5 pm BT but would that be better as she seems to be in an OT mess?

Thanks x

[Mummybare]

No probs - I don't consider that a derailment at all; I'd love to know the answer to that! A 5pm bedtime scares me even more after yesterday, though. I know we pushed her A too far, but I worry that because her bedtime has been within half an hour of 7pm since she was 2 weeks old (not that she's always gone straight to sleep then, but you know what I mean...) that her bodyclock somehow knows if it's a wildly different time, if that makes sense? Because she's gone to bed overtired before, but she's always resettled eventually. She's certainly never point blank refused to go back down for NEARLY 4 HOURS! <still in shock>

[becj86]

is tht rather than fitting in CN and stretching day to 13-13.5h?

Yeah, stretching the day beyond 13hr on a regular basis will eventually lead to accumulated OT and then you could end up in that default day of 14hr because of a 10hr night which is actually OT EW.

When you first go to a one nap day with such a young one though (before 13 months or so for most babies), you need a long nap/night and a short day.

An earlier bedtime actually worked really well for us - it meant a later WU because L was not so OT that he was buzzing with adrenalin and could then sleep longer in the morning rather than waking after 10hr and completely unable to get back to sleep.

[Mummybare]

Goodness me! Heeeeelllp!

DD has had a horrible cold that has really messed with her sleep for the past few days, but last night was reasonable (stuffy nose woke her a couple of times, but she settled again quickly and got about 11.5hrs).

Today I thought I'd try a 2-nap day, so she had 2 slightly UT naps. Her easy was as follows:

6.40 up
9.50 S
11 up
2.40 S
3.50 up

I tried to put her to bed around 7.30. She didn't seem majorly tired, but fell asleep while feeding (she does this about half the time before bed these days. Do you think this is a problem? She settles herself for naps and during the night. Anyway, I digress...). Ten minutes later she was wide awake and she still is at 9pm! What's going on? Is she UT? And, if so, what do I do about it? Try the longer nap again? With or without a catnap? I'm so confused. And sooooo tired. I had really gotten used to the whole STTN thing. 

[becj86]

Could overstimulation be an issue at bedtime?

[Mummybare]

Hmm, it could be... We do bath, then a story or two, bf in the dark then bed. Perhaps she needs story time to be a bit calmer these days? I do find with naps she settles better if I take her for a little walk round the block beforehand, whereas she didn't used to need a wind down at all really. It's worth bearing in mind...

[scruffymax]

If it was my DD doing what yours is doing, it would be from accumulated OT.  I still think those A times are crazy long for an 8mo no matter what anyone else says!  That said, I was stretching mine at the time like you are doing... but things really improved when I cut them back, like I said.  At 11.5 months she is still on the routine of waking around 6:30am but get up at 7am, nap 10-11:30 and around 2:30-4, with BT at 7pm.  I know they're all different, but I see so many people writing on here about issues they're having with 2-1 and I feel they have generally stretched A times too long, too early.  Just my opinion and probably controversial!  But just giving you another point of view :-)

[becj86]

Just my opinion and probably controversial!  But just giving you another point of view :-)

This is the point of our community Mods aren't experts any more than the rest of us are, just mums sharing our experiences in the hope it will help someone else.

I see so many people writing on here about issues they're having with 2-1 and I feel they have generally stretched A times too long, too early.

Quite probable. DS was fine with one nap IF (and its a big if) he had a short day - best night sleep we had til it all went to pot because of one day. BWing is all about finding what your LO needs. L is HSN but needs long, physically active A times or he doesn't sleep well. It took a while to figure that out and when I lose sight of it, things go downhill pretty quickly.

[Mummybare]

Hi guys, thanks so much for your responses - I really do appreciate it.

I think you were right, scruffymax, about there being some accumulated OT, because yesterday (after an admittedly shambolic nap schedule), DD practically fell asleep at the dinner table. We took her up, no bath, just fed her and she completely conked at about 5.50pm. She did wake a couple of times (fed her once as she'd fallen asleep before finishing, I think, and gave Calpol and put a bowl of steam in her room the other time as she was really snuffly), but she didn't wake up this morning until 7.50am!

To be fair, though, I'm not really sure what that tells me, as she's had a nasty cold and her days have been all over the place. I do feel like we have a bit of a clean slate today though, as hopefully she's caught up, so I can start trying to get some sort of schedule together that works for her.

Can I just clarify, scruffymax: if you get 90 min naps on a 3hr A, why were you stretching the ATs? Did it take a while to settle into? Only this looks similar to what we were doing until we started getting short naps and lots of evening wakes, which is why I've been pushing the A times recently. But if I could get a day that looks like yours, I'd be very happy!

Thanks again!

[scruffymax]

Hi Mummybare, the reason for stretching A times was short pm nap.  From memory we were doing a nap at 9:30am, letting her sleep as long as she would sleep (varied from just over an hour to over 2hrs but I would wake her at 2hrs max after a couple of bad experiences with super long morning naps), and then no matter how much I stretched the second A time we couldn't get more than a 40min pm nap for more than a day or 2.  I think we were up to over 4hrs A time.

What changed was going to set naps which meant a shorter 2nd A time; and moving bedtime from 6:30pm to 7pm.  I think once her body clock "knew" that she had to stay up til 7 she "knew" she needed a longer afternoon nap.  Another upside was that WU moved from 5:30/6am to around 6:30am.  This took a while (over a week or 2 I would say) - previously if she'd had a later bedtime one night she still woke the same time as normal in the morning so it was interesting that after long enough on a set routine her body clock caught up so significantly.

I'm speaking from the place of a fairly textbook baby, who really really needs enough sleep - it's like she has 2 different personalities - the lovely happy baby/toddler who has had enough sleep, and an overtired one who is really hard work and not at all happy.

We had a couple of months on the first set routine when things worked pretty great, and then she started catnapping the morning nap fairly frequently (around 9 months I think) and that's when I moved the sleeps a bit later.  Now, we would get a short morning nap once a week or so (and when that happens I move the afternoon nap forward 30mins and we always get a good pm nap), and a short pm nap probably twice a week.  Plus, if we're anywhere other than the cot (or portacot if at someone else's house) eg pram, car, she only sleeps about 35 mins.  And, we do get the afternoon nap refusal around once a week/fortnight.

So that's my experience.  I'm a bit of a set nap time advocate as for us it has worked so well.  Also it's a while since I read the BW books but it seems to me that much of the info on this forum about A times, how long is an UT vs an OT nap etc is based on people's experiences but not what I actually remember reading in the books so just keep that in mind, because it's easy to read something and think it's a "fact".  I found the BW approach to dealing with a newborn baby, how to manage feeds, get into positive sleep routines etc so incredibly helpful, but I personally think there are other books and resources out there that are a bit more helpful when it comes to older babies and routines.  Again just my personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt just as I recommend you take all opinions!

Oh, and even though I am such a set nap advocate (ha ha), one day last week when DD was just miserable with accumulated OT from christmas and all the breaks to her normal routine, plus a cold, that I left her to keep sleeping past the 1.5hr mark for her morning nap, and she slept 3.5hrs!  She's not napped that long since she was a teeny tiny newborn.  So she didn't have a second nap and I put her for EBT and she slept 13hrs overnight!  So just showing us nap nazis also show flexibility when our bubs need it ;-)  It has taken until the last 2 days to get properly back into routine after christmas  and finally she's happy again.  Some bubs are more affected by colds, teething etc whereas others don't notice it.  I was telling a friend about the super naps and nights we got when DD was sick and she said colds always mean less sleep for her kids!  I hope your LO is on the mend.

[Mummybare]

Thanks scruffymax, that's actually really helpful. I know this is the BW forum, and sorry if this is a bit cheeky, but if you have any recommendations for other books/websites that might help, do you think you could PM me? I do like to do my research about these things!

Meanwhile, our 'clean slate' has been sullied already  After her monster 14hr night, she was showing tired signs after a couple of hours. 'Can't be,' I thought and took her out in the buggy. She looked KNACKERED, but when I got her home she fought her nap (2hr45 A). So I got her up, gave her a feed (she was asking, which is also rare - I'm starting to think someone has swapped my child for another, very similar looking, one!) I put her down about 30 mins afterwards and she was seriously OT and fighting sleep - properly sobbing - it was horrible to watch. (In fact she just let out a cry at the 30-min mark, so definitely OT, but I'm hoping she's now settled herself.)

I know I need some consistency, because none of us know where we are at the moment, but I just am not sure what approach to take. I really need to commit to either a set nap time or a set A time and just do it for a week. I know this, but I keep changing my mind about what would work best. 

[becj86]

I really need to commit to either a set nap time or a set A time and just do it for a week.

This is actually the key to all these routines If you keep chopping and changing, LO has no chance to self-regulate which they actually do really well when given a predictable routine and there's no pain/discomfort/hunger or other need unfulfilled.

Any teeth on the move? illness? That (as well as the holiday madness) can increase sleep needs too.

[Mummybare]

Thanks becj86, I'm not sure about teeth, but she's definitely ill, poor thing. I thought she was over the worst of her cold, but perhaps she has had two back-to-back because yesterday she was VERY sleepy. She is slightly more lively today, but still needing extra sleep, so I think I'll give it a couple of days before I start afresh.

But I think you're definitely right that consistency is the key. At least then if something starts happening repeatedly, I'll be able to have a good guess at what's causing it.

Thanks so much for your help - it's been a tricky week or so, but I feel much more positive about things thanks to all the help on here.