Supply decreases when going on EASY

[trisnah]

Hi,

I recently started EASY for my 3.5 month old DD. prior to this I was feeding on demand, meaning an average of 2-3 hrs between feeds during the day. At night I used to co sleep with DD so I would also feed her whenever she wants, which is 2-3 times in about 8 hours.

When I started EASY I noticed my supply decreasing. Specifically prior to EaSY I am able to produce 3oz after I feed DD but now I don't even have 1oz.

FYI, I used to have supply issues in the early months and it was only recently that I was able to exclusively breast feed DD.

could the lack of night feelings cause a drop in supply?

Also I am in the process of transitioning DD to a 4hour feed routine, should I not do this? I know it is possible to have DD on a 4h EASY with 3h feed intervals, can someone give me an example?

Thanks!
Trisna

[Erin M]

There could be a couple of things going on.  First off, as you approach the 4 month mark, your body changes how it produces milk (some interesting reading here: http://kellymom.com/pregnancy/bf-prep/milkproduction/) from being more hormonally driven to supply and demand driven.  Our bodies are told to make milk when the breast is emptied.  4 months is a point when a lot of women feel like they are "emptier" so what you're experiencing could be related to that.

The best judge to see if your supply is ok is your LO -- if she's gaining well, getting enough wet/poopy diapers, seeming content between feedings, meeting milestones, etc, chances are that your supply is totally ok.

You can do a few things as you transition -- you can feed every 3 hours and leave your A/S times on more of a 4 hour -- you'll probably end up with two feeds closer/further apart because of the timing,which is ok.  You can also feed at the beginning of your EASY cycle and then do a top up feed about an hour later as well -- this will keep you on a more "traditional" 4 hour cycle, but still get more feeds in. 

[trisnah]

Thanks Erin for your reply.

In response to how my LO is content after feeds, here's what I observe. Currently I am feeding her closer to 3.15 to 3.5 hour cycles (as I am following the transition for a 3 month to 4 month EASY). I find that when she was on 3h EASY she wasn't hungry when its time to feed, and when I increased to 3.15h she feeds better. Now there are times when she is at 3.5h between feeds but again she doesn't seem hungry. This leads me to believe that I should extend her feed times to 4h - is this right?

The reason why I don't think I'm producing enough during the day is because on 3.15 EASY, she still wakes up at night (sometimes 1am, 2am 3am) for a feed. I can't tell if this is habitual awakening, if she hasn't taken in sufficient calories during the day or if she's going through a growth spurt so I'd rather feed her than put her back to sleep hungry.  I tried to increase her feed intake during the day by giving her 1 oz extra (saved from the night pumping if there is any) but she refuses to take it (again I am unable to tell if she doesn't want the bottle or if she just isn't hungry).

For your suggestion to feed on a 3h basis while transitioning her to a 4h EASY, do you mean that basically I should feed every 2h such as EAES ?

Trisna

[Fiver]

At 3.5m, it is totally normal for her to be waking at night for a feed (or even 2).

Are you trying to feed to the clock now or are you still following her cues?  Some women do find that if they try to feed to a set schedule that milk supply becomes a problem.

BW is a flexible routine rather than a fixed schedule, so please don't feel that your LO has to feed rigidly at particular intervals.  The times are more of a guide so that you know that if LO is crying after 1.5h that there is probably another issue at play rather than hunger - does that make sense?

[trisnah]

Hi Fiver,

I'm confused... According to the book baby must be up 1hour 30 min on a 3 hour EASY, and we must transition baby to 4hour EASY at this time. I have definitely been watching the clock, sometimes I don't even allow DD  to nap because it hasn't been 1.5hours as this was given as an example in the book.

Have I been reading the book wrong?

Also, should I not watch the clock for how long DD should be napping, or playing?

Trisna

[trisnah]

Hi Fiver, my question above also applies to feeding... What is the BW philosophy and how to best interpret it?

Trisna

[Fiver]

The BW philosophy is about respecting your baby and following their cues.  The examples given in the book are exactly that.  Examples.  Some babies may fit into that exactly while others may require more activity or more sleep, just as no adult is the same.

The ladies on the E.A.S.Y. Forum can help you out with some great advice about tweaking your routine to help you and your little girl onto the routine that suits her.

That said, I have to admit, that's how I read it to start with, until I found this forum, so I totally understand your confusion

[Erin M]

That said, I have to admit, that's how I read it to start with, until I found this forum, so I totally understand your confusion

Me too!

Like Amanda (Fiver) said, the overnight feed is totally normal at this age.  My babies were all still nursing at night at that age, 2 of them 2/3 times a night!  It had nothing to do with their daytime intake, but more with their own personal needs.  If you feel like she's not hungry at the 3 or 3.5 hour mark, it's totally ok to push it until 4 hours.  Sometimes going longer between feeds helps LOs take in more at each feed.  I wouldn't take waking overnight as a sign that she's not getting enough during the day. 

[trisnah]

Thanks Erin and Amanda! I am so relieved to hear that I should be treating the BW time routines in e book as examples. The past 8 days of making DD eat, play and sleep at certain times was quite stressful. For example, if she had been up more than 1.45 hours i would be all stressed up about putting her to sleep. It was quite a feat.

I think I need to go back to basics and use DD's cues to set her own structured routine while making sure my supply is still good. I'll post my questions in the EASY forums to figure out how to best manage DD's routine.

Trisna

[Erin M]

I think I need to go back to basics and use DD's cues to set her own structured routine while making sure my supply is still good.

Exactly this!  Trust your mommy instincts and you'll do great!

[trisnah]

You can do a few things as you transition -- you can feed every 3 hours and leave your A/S times on more of a 4 hour -- you'll probably end up with two feeds closer/further apart because of the timing,which is ok.  You can also feed at the beginning of your EASY cycle and then do a top up feed about an hour later as well -- this will keep you on a more "traditional" 4 hour cycle, but still get more feeds in. 

Thanks for the support! I would like to try out your suggestion (see quote), can you please describe the feed timing? I don't quite understand.

 Basically my concern here is supply to meet her needs. She doesn't really cry or fuss about eating so I can't tell if she's full or can use more milk. She stops when I'm empty which is at most 10 min on each breast, and these past 2 days I really do feel 'empty'. While it could be my body transitioning to the supply-and-demand production phase, I would like to be producing more so I can also freeze some. Can you suggest ways I can increase my supply?

Thanks again,
Trisna

[Erin M]

OK, well to answer your first question, you could do it like this:
WU and nurse: 7 AM
Top up: 8 AM
S: 9-11
E: 11 AM
Top up: noon
S: 1-3
E: 3 PM
Top up: 4 PM
cat nap: 5-5:30 (roughly, cat naps are such an individual thing, my babies were all awful at taking them)
7: feed and BT

...or if you wanted to stick on the 3ish hour eating schedule, you could do something like this - feed times do end up all over with that one though:
E - 7
E - 8:30
S - 9-11
E - 11:30
S - 1-3
E - 3
E - 5
Cat nap - 5-5:30
BT/nurse - 7

Increasing supply -- you can try pumping after each feed -- ideally you'd pump until "empty" or about 15 minutes, if you're not getting much at first.  Make sure you're eating/drinking enough and getting enough rest.  Some ladies have success with herbal remedies like fenugreek or mother's milk tea. 

[trisnah]

Thank you so much for the detailed time intervals Erin, I'll try the 4h version as it sounds simpler. And for the pumping advice too!

Cheers,
Trisna

[Erin M]