Some EASY questions

[Hayleys]

Yes, I can't believe she is 1 now, where has the time gone!?

Ok, so I'll try the 7 pm bedtime. Again the morning though she wasn't tired and she feel asleep in the car on our way home from somewhere after 5 hrs. What time is average for her age? Would 4 hrs 20 mins be low now? I'm just not sure what time to aim for when she doesn't give me any tired signals!

Also are you suggesting to stick to the 4:30-5:00 pm catnap with the 7 pm bedtime?

[Hayleys]

Hi

Just to add that bedtime did not go well.  I tried to aim to have her in her cot for 7:30 pm but she just cried and cried. She got herself into such a state that I actually rocked her to sleep in the end and she fell asleep at 8:10 pm. Is it usual to have this response when trying to change her bedtime. Do I need to change the routine at all, perhaps make the catnap earlier?

As she went to sleep this morning after 5hrs A time, I actually woke her up after a 1hr 30 mins nap, otherwise she would have slept for longer!! This meant that she woke at 1:30 pm and her next nap was 4:30 - 5:00 (actually she fell asleep early in the car and slept from 4:20 - 4:50 pm.

[Ima shel Alon]

I try not to be so stuck and say that 5h is too much, because maybe that's really what she needs. Every baby is different .
You can look here what other kids are doing: chronological EASY samples, 10-12 months and here: Average A times- BOOKMARK ME! but again - maybe she needs an higher A and maybe she needs the CN to slowly disappear.
If she naps well after 5h A time and IIWY then I would stick to that for now. If you see that it's effecting her nights in a way that she has many NW, especially in the first half of the night or she has EW but still seems tired then I would go back to 4:20h A time and start increase it gradually.
I would work on shortening the CN to 20min and if there is still BT refusal then I would shorten it even more. I know that some mommies even let their LO have 10min CN towards the end of the 2-1 transition and that their LOs are doing ok with that. I never tried it though, we had a big push of A time, CN refusal and that was the end of teh transition for us. Some kids take long to drop the nap, like when they are 18m or so but some do it as early as 11m. I know that it's a scary thing to do but you know, if you gradually drop it in the next week or so and then there is a lot of OT you can always go back to it.
The other thing to remember is that there is always a certain amount of OT building up when going through the transition, that's not something that any of us can avoid. I would suggest that you keep BT at 19:30 like you tried yesterday and that when you shorten the CN and then drop it offer BT even earlier than that.
When she will be on one nap she won't be able to handle such a long A time before BT so sometimes BT moves to crazy times like 18.
What do you think? You think she might be ready to finish the transition?

[Hayleys]

Hi

Thank you!

Umm, I'm really not sure what is going on at the moment and if she is ready to be moved to one nap or not. 

So for two days in a row she had a 5 hr morning A time and I'm wondering if she needs this now after an 11hr night.  The first day she fell asleep before her nap on the bottle and the second day she fell asleep in the car, so perhaps his may not be the best indication of if the time is right for her, however she took a long nap on both days, in fact I had to wake her on both occasions after 1 and a half hours.  After the first day, there were no early night wakes during the following night (before 12 am) and she did actually sleep and woke herself refreshed at 7 am (for the first time in weeks!!)  This was after an 8 pm bedtime, which she went down for without a problem.  However, during the night she is still waking for a bottle so there is still some waking and I can't remember if she went back to sleep straight away or not, if not straight away it certainly didn't take long. I want to start to think about weaning her from night feeds but perhaps need to sort out her EASY first.   

The second day, again she went to sleep at the 5 hr mark, after an 11 hr night.  However, perhaps the following night was affected.  As I said in my previous post, she had got into a state at bedtime and actually didn't have her night bottle, so at 11 pm she woke and I fed her.  She went back to sleep straight away after draining a bottle.  Then at 2 am she woke again, I gave her another bottle which she drained.  I then heard her at around 5 am but she went back to sleep on her own.  At 6 am she woke and I went into her, she was standing in her cot and I didn't feel I could get her back to sleep so we started the day today at this time.

So today, she had had a 10 hr night with some wakings and an early start.  She seemed tired in the morning but managed.  At 4hr 30 mins, she gave me all of her tired cues and I put her down in her cot.  She did cry a little but she was asleep 3 mins later and slept for 1 hr 30 mins (she woke naturally).  Our day was really wonky though due to the early start and she catnapped in the car from 4:10 - 4:40.  I did actually still aim for an 8 pm bedtime.  I know it was a long day for her (6 am - 8pm), but I felt so nervous about getting her down before 8 pm as the previous night had been such a struggle.  She actually fell asleep on the bottle at 8 pm,but did wake after 45 mins (which she never really does nowadays).  I did expect this though due to OT, she settled very quickly though.  However, she then woke again 45 mins after her first wake up but I did not need to go in and she got herself back to sleep.  So I really think that our wonky day made her very OT. 

As everything is so wonky at the moment, I'm just not sure what her needs are right now.  I'm aware that for both of the times she went to sleep after 5 hrs, these were not times when I got her down independently in her cot and perhaps it would have been a struggle to do this?

Ugh, just not sure what to think right now. I do feel that with her routine as it is, I can't get her down to bed earlier.  Maybe with less sleep during her catnap I could though, but I'm still not sure what to do about her A time in the morning.  Any further thoughts?

[Hayleys]

Just to add that she then woke at 12am, had a bottle and went back to sleep. She then woke at 6:15am. She was standing in her cot, she wasn't receptive to me trying to rock her back to sleep so we started the day at this time. She seemed tired this morning and actually fell asleep on my lap after 4hrs 10 of A time .

I can see that she is OT, but not sure how to get things back on track. I have been rocking her back to sleep when she wakes early do we can start the day at 7am but the last two days she hasn't been receptive to this. I realise that a 8pm bedtime is probably too late for her right now but I find it tricky to get her down before then. Ummm....

[Ima shel Alon]

You have only tried the 19BT once, right? It's hard to make conclusions according to one night, yk? Like I mentioned before, maybe it will take her a few days to set her body clock?
I agree with you that she is OT, but something needs to change. If you stay with the routine you have now then you'll just end up with more and more problems. I do think that starting moving her into one nap is worth a try and it's probably time for that. She is anyway OT from only 10h at night, her day is anyway too long, so it sounds to me like a good time to change things, because things are not great anyway.

[Hayleys]

Hi

Thank you for your thoughts!  Yea, I've only tried moving her bedtime earlier to 7:30 pm once whilst sticking to the same EASY.

I completely agree that something needs to change, I'm just a little unclear about how to implement a new EASY.  As she is waking at around 6 am now and not having the long 5 hr A time when she does due to a 10 hr night, it means that her morning nap is finishing around 12 pm.  This leaves me in a really tricky situation as to what to do?  I feel when this happens she needs some afternoon sleep.  Are you suggesting for her to have a 20 min catnap now and an earlier bedtime?  If so what times do you think I should aim for? 

The other thing is I could try to AP her back to sleep in the morning until 7 am.  This had been working up until the last two days and I could try again with that.  She is then likely to need a 5 hr A time and I could potentially cut out the catnap altogether.  Would that be a good thing to do in this situation or do you think I should try just a 10 min catnap?

Also I'm just wondering if changing her body clock for bedtime is something which should be done gradually, say reducing the time by 15 min each day over a short period of time.  Does it matter that there is such a leap in the time from say 8 pm - 7 pm.   

[Hayleys]

Hi

Just wanted to update you.  The last few days she has woken at 6:30 am and has slept very well during the night.  However she has only been having about a 10 hr night as I have been putting her down at 8 pm (often she has not settled for 15-20 mins after that).  In the mornings she has been very tired and falling asleep on my lap at around 4hr - 4hrs 10 min mark.  So very early, but still doing a 1 and a half hour sleep!

Today, I changed her afternoon nap from 4:30 - 5:00 to 4:00 - 4:20.  This seemed to help a great deal and she was actually asleep at 7:30 pm after putting her in her cot at 7:15 pm.  She also went down without any problem!

After giving it a bit more thought, am I right in thinking that by increasing her night sleep with an earlier bedtime of eventually 7 pm will help her not to be so tired in the morning, as she should still wake at around the same time. Therefore I can increase her A time and then being able to drop the cat nap, but have an earlier bedtime?

[Ima shel Alon]

It sounds to me like you figured it out!
If you can get a longer night out of her that will allow you to increase the first A time to 5h and slowly get rid of the CN. I would still offer it for the next week say, but reduce it to 20min and then 10min. Throughout the process, whatever path you take, you need to use EBT when needed.

[Hayleys]

Hi

Thank you!

We seem to be making progress.  Last night she was asleep by 7:20 pm and actually didn't wake until 6:40 am.  The previous day she was asleep at the same time but still woke at 6 am.  Tonight she was asleep by 7:10 am, so we will see what happens.  She is still having some night wakes though.

Today she seemed tired after 4hr 20 mins A time and she fell asleep on me as I carried her up the stairs.  However she did a short nap of 1 hr 15 mins.  So I know I need to increase the A time now.  The previous day she went down at 4 hrs 35 mins and short napped again at 1hr 15 mina, but I managed to rock her back to sleep.  Hopefully if I keep pushing the A time then she will take a restorative nap, do I still allow her to sleep for 2 hrs and not let her sleep for any longer than this?  She currently is having a 20 min catnap from 4-4:20 pm.  Do I start cutting down on the catnap when she has the restorative nap after 5 hrs A time?  So I just let her have 10 mins and still keep the bedtime for 7 pm. 

[Hayleys]

Hi

Just to update you. She went to sleep fine last night at 7 pm, but woke at 6:10 am. She also woke at 11:30 pm, 2 ish and 5:20 am, but didn't take long to go back to sleep.

This morning she fell asleep on my lap after 4hrs 20 mins A time again but did a very short nap. She woke after 35 mins. I managed to AP her back to sleep but it took 20 mins and then she only slept for about another 30 mins. A noise in the house may have woken her up but I'm not sure. Also it is very hot today and I can see that she has 2 new teeth coming, but to be honest I feel that if her A time was right she would have still had a restorative nap.  But how do I increase the time when she falls asleep on my lap? I tried to put her down and start playing with her but she started crying.

I'm not sure what to do about her PM sleep now. Will see how she is and give her longer but not sure how much. I'm worried about her being OT but also want her to sleep at 7 pm. What would you advise in this situation incase it happens again?

[Ima shel Alon]

do I still allow her to sleep for 2 hrs and not let her sleep for any longer than this?  She currently is having a 20 min catnap from 4-4:20 pm.  Do I start cutting down on the catnap when she has the restorative nap after 5 hrs A time?  So I just let her have 10 mins and still keep the bedtime for 7 pm. 

Once she is on one nap then she can nap longer than that. Some babies nap for 3h and that's fine, that's what they need.
I wouldn't wait for her to have a restorative nap, I really think it's time for her to move to one nap and that CN needs to be shortened to 10min and then disappear. You will have a few days of short naps but she will get used to it after a while that she has only one nap and will start to sleep longer. On a side note, I would increase her A time to 5h and then stop, even if she short naps, because often when a LO is on one nap he needs time to set his body clock.

[Hayleys]

Ok, thanks I wasn't expecting you to say that!

So just to clarify, if tomorrow she falls asleep on me after the same A time and then only had a 35 min nap, should I try to AP her back to sleep or leave it? Also what time should the 10 min catnap be? At the moment, she has been having a 20 min nap from 4-4:20.  Should I make it earlier if she wakes early from a short nap?

Thanks for your help with this, I'd be lost without you guiding me through this!

[Hayleys]

Hi

Just posting again cos I'm feeling a bit nervous about her not having as much day sleep. Just wondering what the theory is behind it. Does it mean she will have more night sleep and then be less tired in the morning?

Also will she not become more overtired from less sleep? Sorry, just trying to get my head around it!

[Ima shel Alon]

Yes, she will get OT if she doesn't have a long nap, but at some point or another you need to transition her to 1 nap and she will then be OT. The transition is not easy, every toddler who is going through it will be OT. IMO, your LO gives you signs that she is ready for 1 nap.
If you still want to wait for a while it's fine as well. I can all give advice, but I am not there, yk? So you should follow your instincts because you know best
TBH, I would start by stopping letting her fall asleep on you. I don't remember that this was ever an issue, or was it always there and we just didn't talk about it? I think that the short napping has to do with the way she falls asleep and if you can get her to fall asleep in her crib then we can come to better conclusions WRT her A times.
You don't have to drop the CN all together - if she short naps in the AM you can still offer a CN or you can go for an EBT. Your days will not be exactly the same so you'd need to improvise a bit.