7.5 mo long NW

[becj86]

Been asking around and someone has suggested hiking her a time up higher. I know at 8 months, DS was doing a 4hr morning a time, a long nap, 3hr after that, 20-30 min catnap and about 2hr to bed, so something a little like that could work for your DD. what do you think?

[tweetie]

Thank you very much Bec I appreciate it.

Last night was good. I am different person when I have two nights without having three hours coffee break  . She slept fine - feeding around 11.30 pm and then 4.20 am, WU 6.34 pm. It is interesting - I have heard her rolling or doing something in the crib but I did not dare to move  so I do not know what was the time: between these two feedings or before she wanted to eat at 4.20 am. However I think that is the progress - she did not need me right away right? 

Today morning when I took her for WD in my hands she fell a sleep within 2  minutes  . A time 3.36 hr, I tried to keep her awake and put her in the crib (WITHOUT my hand  ), she protested 5 sec straight and drift away  . I will follow how things will go but I got a feeling after we extended first A time to 3.45 hr she has 2-3 good nights then few nights NW. When I looked last two nights sleeping was extremely well and long so I would expect this night to have NW    we will see.

I was thinking about that whole last week  just I do not have experience and do not know what to do with naps then.  So after 4 hr A time I would let her sleep as much as she wants and then second nap cut to keep 2 hr BT? What would be A time between am and pm nap? Aiming 12 hr day or 13 hr? For now we are in between - I can not find pattern for her and stick with it she is changing constantly (even though she has good pattern with waking and eating in the night  )

I was thinking to let her few more days to see will these NW go in the circle and if not caused by discomfort then I would go with that A time.

[becj86]

Sounds like a plan. Glad you've had a couple of better nights. I do think its good she's not needing you straight away.

You'd have to experiment a bit with the middle a time, probably start off around 3hr and see where that gets you. Capping the PM nap is a bit easier if LO goes down for the nap a little UT but still had that longer a time in the AM to make her tired enough to sleep. Does that make sense? I feel as though I'm talking in circles :p

[tweetie]

Thank you Bec. I think I am getting there  . Thank you for having patience I appreciate it 

Regarding last night - as I predicted - NW  . She ate at 10.40 pm, and awake 2.10 am but she was quiet in the crib till 3 am then the hunger was stronger  , I fed and even rock her to sleep. She was calm, silent but with wide open eyes. So i returned her in the crib and she was again pretty quiet (not hyper, it was different NW), and after regular 2 hr 13 min she fell a sleep but I should take her in my arms. No matter how hard she was trying to fall a sleep it did not work and she started to cry. However this NW was all the time in the dark - for the first time. Today am nap 1.45 hr, second I will cut after 20 min because it is close to 5 pm and I want her to sleep the latest till 8.14 pm (what will be 13 hr day).

[tweetie]

Here I am I think just to went and I apologize for that  . When you think it could not be worse o yes it could - three nights of 4 hr long NW. I am really on the edge and tired of everything. One night was I would say something (maybe neighbour on the first floor was breathing while he was sleeping  sorry for being sarcastic but it makes me frustrated trying to figure it out the cause and I can not see it) but two other nights I do not know what was it. She was not crying she was not happy chatting but she was hyper and playing.

Yesterday I did 4 hr A time without any problem (after three sleepless nights!). She slept 2.5 hr - I needed to resettle 3 times. Second A time was 3.10 hr and before BT 2.37 hr. However I think I ended up again like when she was 5 months old and learned her to sleep - from 4 -8 pm I am most of the time in the room putting her to sleep  in order to trying to find the time that will work without UT /OT scenario but I am not successful .
 In addition I think that capping second nap is making her frustrating and hyper. It takes her time to become completely awake and after that she is not in the great mood and no matter how close I am trying to put BT I ended up just sitting next to the crib for an hour and she is getting hyper and it ended with crying and of course with APOP because she is so exhausted. I am wondering how long it would be our day if I would put her later with all these A time? I really do not know; i.e. second A time 3.5 hr and to BT at least 3 hr? I am afraid that with stretching this I am just making her OT 

I apologize I would not like to sound ungrateful for all help I got it here but I really do not know what to do  . Do I need to mention that we are again awake for two hours and showing no intention to sleep just hyper? Ok now I need to go because she started to cry, thank you for listening and I apologize once more 

[becj86]

Sorry it's so tough, Honey

Is she usually happy or hyper (sort of overhappy) during these long NWs? I wonder if its OT hyper and we've led you down the wrong path

[tweetie]

You are so sweet Bec  after bunch of coffees today I really feel bad what I wrote  . I mean I needed a vent.

I am pretty sure you are giving me good suggestions and I solved so many things with her by now here. Now we are stuck ...
Bec it is always trial and mistake and you helped me a lot here and we are in the virtual world. You never saw my baby and could just guess and that is hard part. Actually what frustrated me is that I can not read her cues before 2nd nap and BT and I think I put her too early in bed. Maybe I should wait and see what will happen no matter what?

Even I can not say with 100 % about her NW  first three nights before this NW were happy, she was calm, chatting. Then there were three nights of sleeping and this last three nights - the first one - something bothered her because she continued to be very nervous the whole day after. I was thinking teething - put gel on gums, even co slept but the second night again she was awake - two nights at 2.08 and 2.10 am respectively-I started to think - habitual. Then last night it started at 3.18 am.
2nd and the 3rd night - it was hyper not happy (I started just yesterday with 4 hr A time) . Only last night she fell a sleep after those two hours (in comparison with 4 hr two NW before). I hope you could follow my story  . Interesting that yesterday and day before yesterday she was in a good mood but after the 2nd nap she gets cranky.

Today she was 4 hr awake and now she sleeps almost 2 hr and I did not need to resettle (probably she is exhausted).

edit: inspite NW she wakes around 7 like a clock except today - I woke hr up

[becj86]

Don't worry, we've all vented you don't seem ungrateful, you seem like a frustrated mummy who's exceedingly tired and that's a tough place to be

I wonder if the more recent different behaviours could be related to this: http://www.thewonderweeks.com/mental-leap-6/

A lot of me thinks your little one has an incredibly active mind and is finding it hard to switch off, so when she rouses, she just wakes fully nd goes and goes. What's your BT routine? Have you got lots of calming things in there with plenty of body contact to help her release some of that energy?

WRT the second nap, where are you capping it again? If around 45 min, maybe go in, wait for her to rouse at the transition of sleep cycles and wake her then so it's not such a shock to the system... That by no means makes it lovely but it's a lot easier on LO and the crankiness may not stick around as long then.

[tweetie]

   thank you Bec. Do I need to mention that last night my dog ended up on surgery - huge bite wound so I was dealing with him till 1 am poor thing he was crying from pain  . Ok I know you are not a priest to listen my confessions  Sorry but I need to make jokes 
 
So here is resume from yesterday:
WU 7.14 am
A 4 hr
S 2.15 hr
A 3.20 hr
S 20 min (cut)
A 2.32 hr
BT 7.39 pm
BF 11 pm, 3.08 am, awake from 3.08 - 4.40 am, WU 6.40 am 

We went outside yesterday before 2nd nap so she was in the stroller and then we put her in the carrier for sleep and it took her 40 min to fall a sleep. Waking was not traumatic because we came home and she woke up like in the past when we did catnap in the carrier outside and it worked well.

Routine: After pm nap she plays on the floor for a while (no music or electronic toys, no TV) with soft toys, cups - she picked it. Then bath time - around 30-40 min in total - she is sitting in the bathtub playing with small animals in the water (usually she chew them and just enjoy relaxing) with her father and then he brings her to me in the bedroom where is dark and silent music (the same song that it plays the whole night), she eats or not depending when she ate previously (I stopped to do clustering and try to stick around 4 hr regime and it does not make a difference on her waking regarding night feeding) then I hold her, hug, put in the carrier, we walk in the apartment around 20 min. After that I put her in the crib. And then shows starts for approx 30-45 min and it ends with me rocking her while she is laying in the bed and she is holding me for the hand and I sing too if needed.

Yesterday I did not walk in the carrier with her I was rocking her in my arms for 25 min  and she fell a sleep without being hyper.
When she woke up around 11 pm it took her longer to go back to sleep than usual (the same is the last few days) and at 3.08 am she woke up crying I fed - she was biting me  ate after a while, completely awake, sort of nervous. I hold her and rock, did not work, put her in the crib she was hyper but irritated, rubbing her eyes could not sleep but then sort of nervous. I let her in teh crib holding her for the hand and when it escalated I took her in my bed and it took her a while to fall a sleep and  she till 6.40 am.

I started to feel bad because I noticed that I have less patient with her in the night  . By now whatever it was I would always find the strength but last night I started to think for the first time about CIO what I think it is horrible and I could not believe that people could do that. I am very very against it but yesterday it came to my mind and that horrified me  .

Regarding mental leap - I noticed that already three weeks ago (you gave me the link)
Second nap I cap regarding her BT (keeping 3 hr to BT and 13 hr day) so sometimes is 30 min sometimes 40 min and yesterday was 20 min.

She definitely has bunch of energy and that is truth what you are saying.

[tweetie]

small update:
WU  6.40 am
A 4 hr
S 1.5 hr
A 3.14 hr
S 1 hr (I cut)
now she is awake little over 2.5 hr I am waiting her to fall a sleep and she is not hyper  Even grandparents were here today (well the reasonable one  ) but still.

[becj86]

The A time to bed will depend upon the length of the second nap. A 20min nap would only buy us about 1.5-2hr at that age if I recall.

She may be starting to settle into the 4hr A time... NW wasn't quite so long as previously either, maybe things are settling (hope I don't jinx you!).

I've thought about CIO a few times when extremely frustrated but voicing the thought has always always just horrified me and helped me summon the strength to keep going with the cuddles when I just want him to sleep. You're not a terrible mum for thinking it. xx

She's definitely awake when she goes into the cot? I wonder if she needs to do a bit more of the relaxing for sleep work herself (with you there,  of course) so she can practise it and maybe settle herself better at night. What do you think?

[tweetie]

Thank you Bec I hope because this week is really short on sleep (nicely said).

Yes but with her 20 min nap - I got her to sleep after 2.5 hr A time (including 25 min of rocking). Before she just had a bath and I was holding her (knowing it is very short time to bed).


Thank you Bec for nice words - when I end in the red (that is a raw translation but here we say when you are in a danger zone or when you loose temper) what is really very rare (I am surprising even myself because I am not very patient person  - even my mother can not believe ) I run from the room making coffee and come back in 2 minutes or send DH and again I am back in 2.5 minutes  . The hardest part is that she becomes sort of aggressive - scratching, pinching, kicking me (I know these are just reactions) and that is painful when I am holding her and she can not calm down no matter how tight I am holding her. In general we are cuddling a lot (I am such a personality I like that  ) and she enjoys that but when things are out of control it takes her time she would sort of calm down even to notice I am cuddling her - then I wrap her in the blanket and hold her tight.


Yesterday evening in the cot - she was ok ,she did roll over little in the crib, she was calm but still she could not fall a sleep. She was trying and trying and after a while I took her in my arms and rock little bit because I could see it was going to be OT frustrated etc.. She slept pretty fast so her A time was 3.15 hr after 1 hr pm nap.
Night - she woke at 11 pm I resettled (wanted to see if NW is from the feeding and does she wake from habit to feed i.e. during the day sometimes I offer she would not even ask for food). She fell a sleep and wake at midnight - I fed and then she was awake at 2.45 am crying, I tried to calm her down, put her in my bed  but she was crying pretty bed and I decided to feed. She was really hungry  and then I was holding her to fall a sleep - again the same scenario - she was trying but could not  , so I put her in my bed and hold her tight and we sort of slept till 6.15 am but she was very very restless moving a head from one side to another... When we woke up she ate and she is already 1.15 hr on the floor like a tornado  (she still does not sit up and crawl - she goes backwards on the hardwood floor - t is slippery so it is easier otherwise when she put her back part on the knees it is hard to balance

She's definitely awake when she goes into the cot? I wonder if she needs to do a bit more of the relaxing for sleep work herself (with you there,  of course) so she can practise it and maybe settle herself better at night. What do you think?

Till yesterday I would put her in the cot when I would see that she is very sleepy in the carrier and calm down completely but still awake (sometimes drowsy). Immediately after I would lay her in the cot she would start to become hyper like I gave her an injection and start to roll holding fence from the cot sometimes it would look like propulsions (even she would kick the fence with her head and she would not stop).
Yesterday I put her completely awake and sit with the notebook and she did practice but when i lay her down in the crib her reaction was not so hyper.

So you are saying to put her in the cot to practice or on the bed next to me? Although there were times that I would put here on the bed next to me from the same reason but there she would play she would not roll or practice so much. When I put her in the cot - it looked like I described above.

[becj86]

Yes, so pop her into bed wide awake and sit by her if that helps her go to sleep. How does she go if you put her in and leave or get into your own bed? Often us helping baby get to sleep prolongs the process...

[tweetie]

I did that last two days - carried her shorter, put her in the cot, I got into my bed.

If I would leave from the room: sometimes (when she is really hyper I do because I know it will take forever) she is fine with that and after maybe 10 minutes she starts crying and "calling me". In that case I lay down into bed (next to the cot), usually she is still crying until I give her my hand. She holds my hand shortly and then continue to practice. I took my hand back; after few minutes again she is crying - my hand - then she is holding it and calms down trying to sleep (I always put lovey in my hand but you can not cheat her, she knows what she wants  ).
The other times she cries if I would leave so I just sit in the bed with the notebook and surfing (I put it in the position she can not see it and that light is not visible just as small shadow) and waiting till she will call me and then it looks the same. Often I need to pat her in the rhythm of the song  that calms her down and then it takes time... Yesterday looks the same - she could not fall a sleep, rubbing her eyes, crying - I ended up taking her in my arms and patting in the rhythm of the music (trade for the rocking  ).

I was thinking to let her without taking her in my arms but she becomes so frustrated, cries, then it goes and goes like a vicious cycle. Do you think I should let her ? I think that is getting a big problem because I am seeing that in the night too 

Last night - bad night   . Day - she had a long am nap (you see - never consistent with her  )
WU 6.15 am
A 4 hr
S 2.29 hr (woke up without crying for a change )
A 3.15 hr (slept at my parents place, mother said she was sleepy so she could not wait till 3.5 hr)
S 30 min (I cut, she slept so tight that it took me a while to wake her up, poor thing)
A 3.15 hr
S 7.24 pm

She woke up at 11 pm I fed , she slept within few minutes. After maybe 10 minutes she started to cry - I gave hand she slept. After 45 min she woke up crying and crying and nothing helped - I put her again in my bed (I know I will create a prop but I really do not have strength to do anything from sleepless nights) - but she was still crying. I took her in the carrier walk in the apartment.  After a while I put her again in my bed. Again she was crying, then I hold her, cuddling kissing, patting in the rhythm of music (my hand wrist is dead  ) and after approx 1.5 hr finally she slept. You could see she is sleepy, rubbing eyes but could not sleep ... Woke up 3.30 am - I fed - again same scenario with patting and holding and crying just it went fast, slept restless and woke up at 6.37 am. I fed, change diaper and she spent 1.5 hr on the floor in the good mood 

I am already boring with the same story and I am afraid I will need to wait to pass or just give up on everything and goes with the flow  . Maybe she is the personality that can not sleep since her she was 4 months old due to all developmental things  In between teething, mild reflux, winds - is there anything left?   

edit: she could not make it 4 hr A time today, hardly 3.52 hr

[tweetie]

awake from 4 am, already 1.5 hr....