Clueless Dad needs help with 2-1 transition Schedule

[BigDaddy25]

Thanks for your thoughts, Ladies. The reason we made her A time to bed so long is because we had originally done a shorter one but she was fighting BT FOREVER (once as long as an hour and a half!  ) and then we were getting LOOOOONG nws  which I assumed were UT.  I think her overall awake time in the day was too short, as she was used to having 2 naps, so a long day with lots of A time.  Once we increased the A time to bed to 6 hours, she started going down better at BT and sleeping better at night.

Our intention has been (in the long run) to slowly increase the first A time and at the same time decrease the second A time to compensate. But she doesn't seem to be able to handle a longer first A time than 4 hours, 45 min, and not even that when she is already OT. Every time I try 5 hours she short naps. (BTW, I'm pretty sure this is OT short napping, because she was napping LONGER with the 4 hr, 45 min A time then with the 5 hour A time!)  So we seem to be stuck. The last few days we are stuck on an hour and 20 min nap.

Our EASY changes a little each day as we are experimenting trying to find something that works. I hate to give you a million days to work with, but the past couple of weeks kind of help show the journey we've been on and what has kind of worked and what hasn't worked at all, so I'll give you what I have for the last couple of weeks and you can let me know if it makes any sense/helps at all or if it just makes you feel lost, frustrated, and confused like it does me.

Basically what we do is if she naps shorter than 2 hours, we keep her "resting" in the crib for as long as it takes to count it as 2 hours, counting the "rest" time as half sleep time and half A time. I also do this if she wakes before 5ish in the morning. So if I write Time/Time for wake-up or the end of the nap, the first time is the time she woke up and the second time is the time I got her out of the crib. Time/Time for the beginning of the nap means the first time is the time I put her in the crib and the second time is the time she fell asleep. The time in parenthesis is the time we use to start counting A time from nap to bedtime (counting half of the "rest" time as sleep and half as A time) Does that make sense? I'll explain for the first day below as a sample.



Tuesday (a couple of weeks ago)
WU 4:30/5:30 (5:00)
NAP 9:30/9:35-11:10, woke up but I got her back to sleep 11:25-11:56
BT 5:45/5:54
NW 11:30 (quick)

So in other words, on this particular Tuesday above, she woke up at 4:30am and I kept her "resting" in the crib until 5:30, so that we "count" it as a 5:00 wake up.  We wanted her to have a 4 hour and 45 min A time in the morning and we always put her in the crib 15 min before we hope she will fall asleep. So I put her in the crib for her nap at 9:30 and she fell asleep at 9:35. She slept 9:35-11:10 and woke up but I got her back to sleep 15 min later and she then slept 11:25-11:56. At bedtime, we put her in the crib at 5:45 and she fell asleep at 5:54. That night she had one quick nw at 11:30. Okay, here goes the rest......


Wednesday
5:46
10:17/10:29-12:03 /12:37 (12:20)
5:43/5:55
Nw 12:03 quick


Thursday
5:17/5:21 (5:19)
9:49/9:55-11:33/12:17 (11:55)
5:42/6:03
NW 2:36 (quick)


Friday
5:42
9:57/10:12-11:21/12:23 (11:52)
5:17/5:39
sttn


Saturday
4:57/5:03 (5:00)
9:45/10:05-11:01, (quick wake up but I got her back to sleep) 11:02-11:31/12:10 (11:50)
5:20/5:40
sttn


Sunday
5:14
9:40/9:44-11:27/12:01 (11:44)
5:31/6:00
NW 11:05


Monday
4:50/5:16 (5:03)
?/9:56-11:30/12:02 (11:46)
5:28/5:53
NW 11:37 (for about an hour)



At this point, Sara (ZacsMumme) suggested we try a 4 hour 30 min A time in the morning and it worked AWESOME!!! (we finally got a 2 hour nap!!!), but only for 2 days...

Tuesday
5:33
10:03/10:22-12:34/12:39 (12:37)
6:22/6:48
sttn

Wednesday
5:41
10:10/10:24-12:22
6:08/6:28
sttn

Thursday
5:43
10:14/10:26-12:03/12:49 (12:26)
6:11/6:25
Sttn

Friday
5:14
9:58/10:10-11:51/12:29 (12:10)
5:44/5:58
Sttn

Saturday
4:54/5:36 (5:15)
9:45/9:56-11:17/12:15 (11:46)
4:40/5:00  (we did a super early bedtime since I'd noticed she was rubbing her eyes and yawning a LOT throughout the day. And she sttn for 12 hours! Woo hoo!)
Sttn

Sunday (yesterday)
5:04
9:49/10:09-11:30/12:30 (12:00)
4:55/5:35 (we tried the super early bedtime again because I still didn't think she was completely caught up plus she had short napped again but I guess she was ut at bt because she fought bt for a long time)
NW 3:20; also made sounds a lot throughout the night

Monday (today)
4:49/5:11 (5:00)
9:20/9:45-11:05/11:09 (11:07)  I got her out of the crib instead of keeping her "resting" for an hour because I just couldn't take it any more. I'm planning to try for a short nap this afternoon, but I'm very, very nervous she will refuse as now she won't even go down for a short am nap anymore.

I'm sorry this is so long.  I hope it makes some sense and that maybe you experts out there can see some kind of pattern to it. Thank you so much for taking the time to help. You are INCREDIBLE.

[BigDaddy25]

Trying a short pm nap didn't work. She was WAY wired. Now it's going to be a super super early bedtime (5pm, I think) AGAIN. And who knows how tonight will go? What ever happened to  our perfect routine of just a few weeks ago?  I'm so sick of getting up at 5am and fighting her to sleep ALL DAY LONG. 

Sorry for the rant. 

[Mama_Mia]

Are you really that precise on the timing? I always rounded up or down depending on which was closer.

By the way, how old is DD?

I would go with
in the crib 4.5 hours from wake up
nap
(as long as she napped at least 1.5) in crib 5.5 hours from wu from nap
(if napped less than 1.5 hours) in crib 5 hours from wu of nap


OOps, I forgot the other thought in my head,lol

First on those nights where she wakes often or stays awake for awhile, I always thought this was ut with my ds because he is low sleep needs,but it turned out to be built up ot. Which usually took 2 days to get over.

Also when you say she fights bt, does she literally fight because she doesnt want tog, or does she just take awhile to go to sleep?

[BigDaddy25]

Are you really that precise on the timing? I always rounded up or down depending on which was closer.

Sorry, sometimes I'm a little too detail-oriented for my own good.  Thanks for wading through all the numbers!

By the way, how old is DD?

Whoops! I forget I'm using my husband's account (because he started this thread) and his doesn't have the little thing at the bottom with her age. She actually turned 19 months a few days ago (on the 28th.)

I would go with
in the crib 4.5 hours from wake up
nap
(as long as she napped at least 1.5) in crib 5.5 hours from wu from nap
(if napped less than 1.5 hours) in crib 5 hours from wu of nap

We're trying it! Thanks!

First on those nights where she wakes often or stays awake for awhile, I always thought this was ut with my ds because he is low sleep needs,but it turned out to be built up ot. Which usually took 2 days to get over.

Hmmm... I always thought quick nws were usually ot and long ones were usually ut (or teething.) So you're saying long nws can be ot?

Also when you say she fights bt, does she literally fight because she doesnt want tog, or does she just take awhile to go to sleep?

Great question! It depends, but the last few weeks usually it means rolling around in the crib talking to herself for a long time.








Here's what we've had since I last wrote:

Monday (continued from previous post)
Tried PM nap for about 15 min but it was obvious she wasn't going to go to sleep
BT 4:40/5:15
NW 4:00 (for about an hour, but finally went back to sleep)

Tuesday
6:55
11:25/11:35-1:05, (quick waking) 1:05-1:20/1:30
6:55/7:20
sttn

Wednesday
5:50/6:10 (6:00)
10:30/10:45-11:35, (quick waking) 11:35-12:10/12:15
5:10/5:40
sttn

Thursday (today)
5:20
9:50/10:15-11:35/11:55 (11:45)
Planning on in crib 4:45/hopefully asleep 5:00

As you can see, we are still getting a nap of an hour and 20-something min almost every day which is causing bedtime to get earlier and earlier.  If we can just extend the nap, I think everything would fall into place fairly easily, but how to do that? Do you think the nap is ot or ut?

Thank you so much!

[Mama_Mia]

Hmmm... I always thought quick nws were usually ot and long ones were usually ut (or teething.) So you're saying long nws can be ot?

With my DS he has both, many short nw's in a night and also 1 long nw when ot. I think it depends on how ot he got.


 

Great question! It depends, but the last few weeks usually it means rolling around in the crib talking to herself for a long time.

This can be perfectly normal. For awhile with my ds if he fell asleep too quickly that meant he was ot and had nws, so I always hated it when he fell asleep really fast. Many nights it took him up to an hour to fall asleep, then he would sttn. Then he seemed to outgrow it and now he will fall asleep anywhere from 10 min-30 min after being put down.

  If we can just extend the nap, I think everything would fall into place fairly easily, but how to do that? Do you think the nap is ot or ut?

I think I would try extending that first A by 15 min for a week and see if the nap gets any longer. You could always put her into a stroller or something for those 15 min to keep her calm enough to not get ot. It took about 2 weeks of me walking ds around in his stroller for the last 15-20 min of his A time before he adjusted and was able to handle it ok. That was when he made the jump to a 5 hr A at 8 months.

I think your on the right track since she has been sttn, now its just a matter of a little tweaking to get the nap longer.

[ZacsMumme]

Yes I think you need to gently push the nap later till the day shifts with it, 15 mins at a time till you hit 12
At 19 mths I think your poss in the 18 mth sleep regression too hugs