Is this different than 2-1 transition?

[blondie91582]

My LO is 9.5 MO & has never been a great sleeper. He usually goes to sleep by himself easily, but doesn't stay asleep at night (naps are good, just lots of NWs). After moving a few weeks ago & everything being crazy around the holidays, I APOP'd him to sleep too much & threw him off. About a week ago, I started doing PD with him to get him back into falling asleep on his own without me nursing him. The first couple times, it took 1.5 hours, then just 30 mins the next day. He's been sleeping WAY better at night (only 1 or 2 wakings) & waking up at 6:30 instead of 4:30 or 5. I got really excited about all that, until yesterday. He refused his afternoon nap & after 1.5 hours of trying (with a break in between), I eventually drove around for a car nap (which I never do, but it worked). I thought that was a random thing, but it happened again today. Here's what our EASY was starting to look like:

Wake 630
E 700 (BF)
E 800 solids
S 1000-1130
E BF
E 1230 solids
S 1500-1600
E BF
E 1700 solids
E 1900 BF
S 1930

But the past 2 days have been:

Wake 630
E 700 (BF)
E 800 solids
S 1000-1130
E BF
E 1230 solids
S (attempt from 1445-1645) (APOP nap from 1645-1745)
E BF
E 1815 solids
E 1915 BF
S 1930

It doesn't seem like the 2-1 transition since he's actually waking later in the morning. He still naps about 1.5 hours in the morning & seems tired in the afternoon, but he fights it. He plays a lot in his bed, then will lay down & almost seem asleep, but start crying & stand up again... play more, cry, etc. I don't know what to do! I also don't know when I should be putting him to bed after a rough afternoon like that.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated

[Papaya]

Could be that he needs a little bit longer second A time to go down - perhaps he's a little UT, but with playing around becomes OT and can't settle? My first instinct would be to try putting him down 15 mins later.  Does he get plenty of physical activity before that nap?

Is the standing in the cot new? Or any other new skills? It could be developmental too.

[blondie91582]

He usually gets plenty of activity, but the UT/OT thing sounds like it could be right. He's been standing for awhile, but he really likes doing it. He rarely sits in the bath anymore haha. He never has trouble with the first nap, but it seems like he either has a hard time with the afternoon nap or BT, but never both. It's always one or the other, which is odd.

Today, he woke at 5am, since that's when DH gets up for work & our house carries sound well. He's going to try getting ready downstairs tomorrow & see if LO sleeps through. LO woke super cranky, but wouldn't go back to sleep, so he was off all day.

Also, I go by time from when he got up rather than specific naps/BT. Could that be an issue?

[scruffymax]

Hi Blondie, just letting you know my 11.5 month old skips the afternoon nap occasionally - has been for at least 2 months now so probably started around the same time as your LO.  Her nap times are very similar too, 10-11:30 and 2:30 - up to 4:15pm (often a bit late putting her down though, and often takes a while to fall asleep at this nap).  Probably once a week/fortnight she just doesn't go to sleep in the afternoon - plays in the cot for 30mins+ before getting cranky.  I tried to get her to take a car nap a few times when she wouldn't sleep in the cot but it seemed once the window has passed, that's it and she won't sleep.  So on those days we just have an EBT of 6:30pm instead of 7 and she usually sleeps in a little later the next morning.  At this point I'm just sticking with the same nap times until she consistently refuses the pm nap.  She also almost always has a good morning nap like your LO. 

I would be reluctant to increase your LO's A times too much at this point unless you have an ongoing regular problem with the afternoon nap.  I've just seen people on this forum have a much harder time with the 2-1 transition and my personal opinion is they've tried to increase A times to get better naps and it hasn't worked, it's made the LO OT and they get stuck in a spiral of chasing A times.  Just an opinion from a fan of set nap times though!

[blondie91582]

Thanks! I'll try that tonight. As for the set nap times, doesn't your LO get OT sometimes? I've been wanting to try that with him. Do you think he'd be really OT for a few days & then get used to the routine & even out?

[blondie91582]

Scruffymax, he slept from 7pm-630am with only one NW at 11 to BF! He seemed a little tired in the evening & wasn't as active, but it seemed to work well. Thanks for your help

[scruffymax]

he slept from 7pm-630am with only one NW at 11 to BF!

Great!

As for the set nap times, doesn't your LO get OT sometimes?

They're all different of course but my LO responds really well to set naps, and the only time she gets OT is when we don't stick to the set nap times or have repeated days in a row of car/pram naps (she will only nap 30 mins in car/pram).  Provided the nap times are "right" for your LO, if you stick with them for a week or so your LO's body clock will catch up.  Those first few days can be hard though.  Good luck, I hope it continues to go well for your LO!

[blondie91582]

Thanks. He refused to nap again today, but didn't cry this time. I think he liked how it went yesterday. We'll see how tonight goes!

[blondie91582]

The past 2 nights have been rough... 4 or 5 NWs He still doesn't want to take the afternoon nap though. I don't know what to do. Yesterday I took him for a short nap in the car because I could tell he was tired, even though he refused the nap. Maybe I'll try extending his A time before the 2nd nap & see how that goes. I think he's too young to drop the second nap just yet.

[Aishi]

If you're going with set naps you need to stick to them for a week or even two to Allow los body clock to adjust. Chopping and changing methods will just make the OT worse :/

[Papaya]

What time of night are the NWs? NWs in the first few hours are likely OT - but if throughout the night, it could indicate something else. Any teeth coming?

I think he's too young to drop the second nap just yet.

He is What's your EAS now?

xx

[blondie91582]

I don't do set nap times. I just go a set amount of time from when he wakes up to when I put him to sleep. The NWs have been in the first few hours & then he sleeps from when I BF him (10:30-12, depending on when he went to bed) until the next morning (5:30-6:30). I still BF him once at night. I don't know if he'll drop that sometime soon.

He refused his 2nd nap again today. I thought maybe he was UT, so I kept him in his jammies & we took a calm walk around the house & looked outside. Then he seemed tired, but still wouldn't go to sleep. I ended up doing a 30 min car nap again so he would be able to make it to BT. His dad usually comes home around the time that he usually takes his second nap & I wonder if that might have something to do with him not wanting to sleep?

[blondie91582]

Also, when he wakes in the beginning of the night, he SCREAMS like something terrible is happening to him. I think he only does that when he's waking due to OT. He also just cut a tooth & might be getting some more. He got 4 at once a few weeks ago

[Papaya]

So are you doing 3.5hr A for first and second A? The average A time for this age is around 3.5-4 hours, so he could just need more for the second A. I've just read back over your initial post and you say he's sleeping much better at night than he was - so it makes sense that he can stay up for longer during the day. You probably are getting close to the 2-1 transition - but that doesn't necessarily mean your LO is going to go to one nap any time soon, it can take several months. Have you read the 2-1 links?

10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first!
from 2 to 1 nap - how, when and the bumps

Maybe something like this might work:

WU: 630
Nap: 1000-1130
Nap: 3.30 - 4.30 (capped at one hour initially. You may need to cap at 45 mins if UT at bt)
BT: 1930

Screaming NWs here are generally OT or teeth. If he is teething, that could also be making it harder for him to settle for a nap - have you tried giving teething meds half an hour before you want him to settle?

xx

[blondie91582]

I think he needed more A time in general. For the past 3 days, I upped his morning A time from 3.5 hrs to 3.75 hrs. His first nap increased from 1.3 hrs to 1.75 hrs the first day, then to 2.5 hrs yesterday! Then he skipped his nap again & had an EBT, but slept all night (except for one wake & feed at 1030). I think he's starting the transition & might have some 1 nap days & some 2 nap days. It seems like he does better with just the one nap though