Author Topic: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical  (Read 2723 times)

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Offline tiredandparanoidnewmama

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Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« on: January 16, 2013, 03:13:49 am »
Hi There,

Our little, spirited guy is 8 and a half months old. He's tiny at almost 18 pounds. I was on bed rest for 4 months before he was born 3 weeks early, and since then the poor guy has battled colic, reflux, an aversion to the bottle or pacifier, an inability to sleep and, most recently, a dislike of solids. We fell into all the traps of accidental parenting, which I used to refer to as survival parenting. When he was first born, he would not sleep and protested every time I set him down. The poor guy could never finish a feed without discomfort and was constantly hungry and in pain. To make things easier on ourselves and him, we began co-sleeping and breastfeeding on demand. I soon became his prop. Up until recently, I would hold him for all of his naps and sleep with him all night. I didn't mind until he became 3 months old and our sleep problems intensified. He was up every 20-40 minutes all night long with one or two longer stretches of 1-2 hours. We refined out night time routine (book, bath, sleep sack, feed, white noise, humidifier, feed) and slowly adjusted his bedtime to 7 (with the routine starting at 6). When he was 6 months old, my husband's work hired us a sleep trainer, which was unbelievably nice of them. She suggested a modified version of cry it out - eliminating all feedings and placing him in his own crib. I talked to my doctor and he wasn't opposed. My husband was adamant that we try it because it had worked for his co-worker and because his job had gone the extra mile to get this resource for us. So we tried it for 5 days - the longest and most horrible days of my life. He was FRANTIC, screaming as if someone murdered him for HOURS at bedtime AND during all of his wake ups. He lost his voice from crying. I was on the brink of a nervous breakdown and my husband had to physically restrain me from going in his room. The poor guy got terrible diarrhea and I fought tooth and nail to call it quits. I feel sick when I think about it and still worry that it hurt him. It's still a sore spot in our marriage as my husbad is a huge proponent of the CIO method. After that, it went from bad to worse. The poor guy lost all trust and I felt I failed as his mother. He would constantly wake and never settle. I brought him back into bed many nights out of desperation... but that didn't work either. I felt so confused and know that I confused my poor baby as well. My husband was desperate to try something and urged me to go back to CIO. We compromised with PU PD. It worked for the first few days (we were excited) but then he totally regressed. He reacts violently, screaming hysterically when we try. My husband handles bedtime and his first waking. I am responsible for the overnights and naps, since my husband works. Bedtime can take 30 min- 2 hours of crying, same with the first wake up. When it comes to the overnights, I usually end up giving in and literally crawling into his crib with him until he falls asleep. I often feed him to calm him down, which I know probably isn't the best solution.  I am desperate because I feel like we are hurting him again with his hysterical crying that can last for hours... even though we are on night 8 of PU PD. He is getting his first tooth, so we give him advil to combat the pain. He has a lovey so he doesn't feel alone. His crib is elevated. He has been on different types of reflux meds but my doc suggested taking him off ... for risk of overmedicating him. We have followed the same wind down ritual since he was 6 months. I know he's probably OT because he has a hard time napping but he just won't sleep. I try to put him down after 2 hours of awake time all day. I try PU PD at nap time but can't take the constant crying. It's hysterics with hiccups. It's heartbreaking. I will eventually rock or feed him.. and that is starting to not work. He just reached the sit up and pull up milestones and he "practices" all night. Sorry to ramble. I feel like a failure as his mom and am desperate to help my poor baby sleep... without hours of crying. Any suggestions???

Offline nevinsmama

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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2013, 04:03:10 am »
Hi and welcome to BW! Wow you and your LO have been through a lot! First off BW doesn't use any of the CIO or CC methods as Tracy believed they break the bond of trust between a Mother and her baby, there are gentler ways to help your LO sleep. Just have a minute here but you are in a great place to get help and you WILL sleep in the future! SO will your LO! 
If there is any discomfort all the sleep training in the world won't help. Is the reflux currently controlled? How is he handling the teething?
Can I encourage you to take a look at these links? Maybe your DH too? It helps so much when they are on board too.

Research on why 'cry it out' and 'controlled crying' is NOT recommended!

If you are desperate to let your lo "cry it out"...read this first

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=211289.0


Regaining Trust of Your Child

One thing I noticed, is his wake time is REALLY short. I know you have rough nights but wake time at this age is around 3-3.5 hours. This could explain some of the resistance.

Maybe looking at this could help?

Average A times and "Is my baby ready to increase A time?"

chronological EASY samples, 7-9 months

Hope I didn't overload you with information and hope some of this helps! I am sure someone with more experience with getting back to independent sleep will be along to further guide you. I know you both must be exhausted. So glad you are not still doing CIO and you are NOT a failure! Mamahood is a tough job and sleep deprivation is PAINFUL, even without what you have both been through!!You will get through this and so will your LO, we will be here to help you all the way!!

Maryn


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Offline tiredandparanoidnewmama

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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2013, 04:38:43 am »
Thank you so much!! I will review all of these. After my experience, I am definitely opposed to any sort of CC. I will show these to my husband to get him on board... as I am more of the attachment parent and he is on the other side of the fence. After reviewing the suggested A time, I will try stretching it from 2 hours to 3. He just seems so tired... probably because his lack of nighttime sleep. He only gets around 7 hours total of scattered sleep at night on average. I think he's reacting so poorly to PU PD because he's scared we are going to leave him... and then I end up giving in and staying with him which just confuses him. How long would you suggest waiting to feed him at night? I'm currently waiting 3-4 hours between night feeds. In regards to his reflux, we stopped meds about a month ago. I am considering taking him to another pediatrician for a second opinion. He doesn't exhibit any of the old reflux signs he used to have... sleep is our only issue. I am not sure if it's still reflux or separation anxiety or frustration because he doesn't know how to self soothe. He isn't spitting up or vomiting. He pushes us away when we PU so I can't tell if he is arching like he once did when reflux was at its worst. He seems great with teething during the day. He isn't whiny or drooling but if he seems uncomfortable at night, we give him advil. I also have a soft teething ring in bed with him, just in case he needs it... he rarely uses it. He's such a great little guy, and I just want him to have the best mommy. Thank you again!

Offline nevinsmama

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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #3 on: January 16, 2013, 05:05:47 am »
After reviewing the suggested A time, I will try stretching it from 2 hours to 3. He just seems so tired... probably because his lack of nighttime sleep
How long are his naps once he goes to sleep? I would just increase gradually, he may need more A at this time but too much at one time could overload him.

How long would you suggest waiting to feed him at night? I'm currently waiting 3-4 hours between night feeds.
I would go with 4. Hold there for a while and see how he goes.

If PUPD is the way to go ( and someone else might be able to jump in here, as you two have been though so much I don't know really the best place to start) you might check that board out too. THe FAQs are very helpful.

 I am sure others will chime in here, I know how it feels to be *that tired*! You will get there! :):)

Maryn


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Offline tiredandparanoidnewmama

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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #4 on: January 16, 2013, 06:01:49 am »
Thank you again!!! His naps vary. For the past few days, he just doesn't want to nap. He went a whole day (7a-7p) without one nap... not even in the car as a last resort. Prior to the past few days, his naps were usually an hour. He's an unpredictable guy though and the third nap is the hardest to achieve. We don't follow EASY just because we have always nursed to get him drowsy before sleep and I'm scared to see what happens if we don't. His day is usually like this but some days sway drastically from this norm:

7 - Up for the day
9 - Nurse & nap (usually for an hour - although not lately)
10 - Breakfast (cereal & fruit)
1 - Nurse & nap (usually for an hour - although not lately. this nap is sometimes longer and sometimes only 20 min)
2 - Lunch (cereal, yogurt & fruit/veg)
4 - Nurse & attempted nap (doesn't always work, in which case he will stay awake from 2 till 7)
5 - Supper (cereal, fruit, veg)
6 - Bath
6:15 - Nurse
7-7:30 - Usually asleep
10:30 - Awake
12 - Awake (nurse)
2 - Awake (this is the tricky one. Sometimes he is up for hours)
4 - Awake (nurse)
5 - Awake
6 - Awake

Offline jessmum46

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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2013, 08:39:36 am »
Hi there, I see you have had some GREAT advice already from Maryn :). I'm so glad that you don't want to go down the CC/CIO route and we can definitely help to support you with gentler sleep training methods.  I really hope that your DH can get on board too.

My first concern is about the reflux - he sounds like he was quite severely affected in the initial months and I find it strange that your doctor would want to stop medications suddenly because of 'over medicating'.  What meds has he been on in the past?  Have you noticed a deterioration in his sleep or general mood since being off them?  Teething can cause big flares in reflux, as can the introduction of solids.  If there is a possibility that he could still be in discomfort, then there is no point in sleep training - it will be distressing and unsuccessful for all of you. 

I would definitely avoid PUPD if he is a refluxer, especially so if the reflux is uncontrolled.  PUPD can aggravate reflux because the stomach contents and acid get sloshed around and worsen the reflux, and inhaling a lot of air while crying can cause gas discomfort and again worsen the reflux.  I would stick with shh pat or a variation that suits him e.g. Stroking his back, hand on his chest and gentle soothing words, but again, until you are certain he is not suffering with reflux I would stick with doing whatever works to get some sleep into him.  He is likely very very OT at this point and getting some sleep into him is much more important than independent sleep at this point.  If that means co-sleeping and nursing to sleep, then I would do that for now - it will always be possible to break props further down the line with some work once LO is not in pain.

I agree with Maryn that he needs to be on a more age appropriate routine (she gave you some great links) and the way to get there is to slowly increase A time by 10 mins or so every 3-4 days.  You are working towards something like

WU 7am
Nap 10-11.30
Nap 2.30-4
BT 7pm

But jumping to that all at once will likely be too much for him, especially given the broken sleep at night.

I'm going to ask one of the mummies who is experienced with reflux to pop over and give us a hand too.  Huge (((hugs))), you will both get there and we will be here to support you :)

Offline ENMS

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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2013, 16:11:25 pm »
Hey there :)

(((hugs))) it sounds like you've had a rough time :(

Have you seen this?

Reflux 101 - General reflux information

In my personal experience I have found that as LO's grow older, they often do not show the 'obivous' signs of reflux that would be shown as babies, such as spitting up, and instead seem to experience silent reflux a lot more.

Have you noticed a difference in his sleep or anything else behavioral since you weaned the reflux meds? What meds was he on?
Elise



Offline anna*

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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2013, 16:41:13 pm »
(((((hugs))))) for all you and your baby have been through.

I agree that PUPD can be too much for a refluxer and tbh even for a non-refluxer at 8 months old it can be really aggravating for them. I would rather hold him and talk softly to him until he is calm - or for 10-15 mins max - and then put him in his cot and leave him there. That does NOT mean leave him alone! Sit next to him. Stroke his back, stroke his head, pat his mattress, sing to him. If he is getting hysterical, pick him up again. Talk softly and soothing words to him. Tell him he is safe, and that he is just going to sleep, and there is nothing to fear.

But yes, you definitely need to be sure that his reflux is controlled before embarking on any of this. He won't settle if he's in pain.





Offline tiredandparanoidnewmama

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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2013, 16:46:48 pm »
Thank you for the support! My doctor isn't convinced that reflux meds help, which is why he wasn't keen on prescribing anything in the first place. He also didn't mention that CC or PU PD could worsen the reflux, which is upsetting. The thought of hurting my baby further turns my stomach. We haven't noticed any real differences since he went off the medication last month. He was on prevacid between 3-7 months and we still had pretty bad sleep problems during this time when I was co-sleeping and nursing to sleep. I did get help from an occupational therapist at one point who suggested all the things we were already doing to help with his reflux and sleep. We have tried shush and patting but that also really upsets him and brings on frantic tears. Yesterday, I fed him till he was drowsy and placed him in his crib. He cried for only a few seconds before going to sleep. He was probably exhausted because he wouldn't go down for his second nap. He slept 4 hours, which is amazing for him. After that, we has wide awake, laughing and just not wanting to go back down. He finally went back to sleep 2 hours later but that was up every hour the rest of the night. I alternated between sleeping in his crib with him and sleeping on the floor. He woke up at 6 and he is still awake. I'm so scared to try anything now. I don't want to hurt him with PU PD or fall back into our old traps which had him up every 20-40 all night... especially cause we are just seeing little bits of progress with a 4 hour sleep. Ack!

Offline anna*

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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2013, 16:56:48 pm »
You won't hurt him with PUPD hun, especially if you don't do much PU (which is age appropriate anyway)





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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2013, 18:10:30 pm »
What dose of Prevacid is he on?  Did any of the symptoms from the Reflux 101 link ring a bell to you?  Is any other kind of discomfort a possibility (gas, digestive, etc)?

I agree with Anna, you definitely will not hurt him with PUPD!
Elise



Offline tiredandparanoidnewmama

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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2013, 19:52:44 pm »
Thank you again for listening and helping!! It is a great relief to talk about it. He was on 1 ml of prevacid twice a day before we stopped it. I made an appointment with our doc to see if he should go back on it. In regards to the symptoms on that guide, he doesn't have many: irritability at night with no sudden crying during the day, poor sleep habits, frequent waking and constant nursing at night only. What do you normally do if your LO wakes up in the middle of the night, doesn't  seem tired and just wants to play? Thank you. Thank you. Thank you
 

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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2013, 22:11:12 pm »
You are getting some incredible advice here hun so nothing to add but so many hugs!  You are a wonderful mother, don't question your own instincts.  If you think LO has reflux,  push for meds.  He will outgrow it so don't feel that you are going to be medicating for life.

I also wonder if he might be intolerant to milk proteins?  Have you considered trying an elimination diet for yourself to see if that helps him at all?  There are plenty of moms here with loads of experience with that.

Many hugs to you!



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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2013, 23:40:22 pm »
The ladies have already covered everything I would have said and more so I shall just offer hugs.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


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Re: Help - Poor guy is hyseterical
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2013, 23:45:47 pm »
Just popping on with hugs and support too. Agree with Elise and kara re reflux and possible MSPI. How are his poops?
Any back arching? - or is he particularly gassy/windy?
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.