6 months old NW every 1 or 2 hours and stays awake for 1 hour!

[evelynmom]

Hi, my DD is 6 months old and has been a terrible sleeper for 3 months! I surfed to this site two weeks ago and started doing EASY with her. Things are not getting better. The day before yesterday, she woke up at 10, 12, 2, 4, and 6 and each time she stayed awake for at least 40 minutes. Last night, she woke up at 10, 12, 1, 4, 5, 6 and again stayed awake for a long time each time. Her day nap is also not good. She used to nap for 30 minutes every time and took 4 or 5 naps a day. Then I started W2S method so this week she could nap for 1.5-2 hours in the morning but I couldn't do anything about her afternoon nap. She wakes up after 30 minutes no matter what.

I tried 3 naps a day or 2 naps a day, early bedtime or late bedtime, 2 hour A time or 3 hour A time. Nothing works! Please help me! This almost drove me crazy now!  I could hardly sleep 4 or 5 hours a day and I have to go to work on MWF.

Except that, my DD is a very sweet girl and very content during the day. I just don't understand how she could survive with so little sleep! And I definitely need more sleep!

Here is our EASY schedule:

8:30 wake up
E -- 9:00 EBM + cereals
A -- 9:30-11:00
S -- 11:00 about 1.5 to 2 hours using W2S
E -- 1:00 BF + cereals
A -- 1:30-3:30
S -- 3:30 or 4:00 about 30 minutes (tried W2S but didn't work)
E -- 5:00 BF
A -- 5:30-7:00
E -- 7:00 BF 7:30 bedtime
I BF her at 12:00 and 5:00 during the night

Sometimes she has 3 naps a day:
8:30 wake up
E -- 9:00 EBM + cereals
A -- 9:30-11:00
S -- 11:00 about 1.5 to 2 hours using W2S
E -- 1:00 BF + cereals
A -- 1:30-3:30
S -- 3:30 or 4:00 about 30 minutes (tried W2S but didn't work)
E -- 5:00 BF
A -- 5:30-6:30
S -- 6:30 catnap
A -- 7:00-8:00
E -- 8:00 BF 8:30 bedtime
I BF her at 12:00 and 5:00 during the night

Thank you so much!!

[evelynmom]

I forgot to mention that I did pupd with her and it worked well. Now she can fell aleep on her own at bedtime. But I haven't tried it during the day since it seems harder for her to calm down for naps. During the night she still needs a lot of comfort (patting, rubbing back, or even pupd once or twice) to go back to sleep.

[Erin M]

30 minute naps are often overtired naps -- I'm wondering if you need to cut back that second A time a touch.  How does she wake from those 30 minute naps? 

How is she getting back to sleep at night for all those wakings?  That many wakings can sometimes be discomfort or can be a prop issue -- depending on how she gets back to sleep it could be causing some of her wakings. 

I tried 3 naps a day or 2 naps a day, early bedtime or late bedtime, 2 hour A time or 3 hour A time. Nothing works! Please help me! This almost drove me crazy now! 

How consistently are you trying things?  I know that sometimes it's tempting to switch things up to try to find the "right" routine, but sometimes that just ends up confusing our LOs and messing with their sleep even more. 

What would happen if you tried 2.15 A time for all of her naps and see where that gets you?

[evelynmom]

Thank you so much Erin for your reply!! I feel like crying again last night when she woke up at 2 right after I fell back to sleep from her 12 oclock NW. I really appreciate your help!

She usually wakes up whining from those 30 minute naps. If I can get her back to sleep using W2S, she would wake up happily, but it doesn't work each time.

For the NW, I have been doing PUPD for a couple of weeks. That usually works. But sometimes she just does mantra cry, or move around in her crib and finally falls back to sleep after a long time. She does have mild eczema and scratches herself occasionally. I'm not sure whether that caused her long NW.

How consistently are you trying things?  I know that sometimes it's tempting to switch things up to try to find the "right" routine, but sometimes that just ends up confusing our LOs and messing with their sleep even more.

 
I guess that might be the problem. I'm really not a patient mom. I switched between 3 naps or 2 naps constantly just want to see the effect.

So I will try 2.15 A time and 3 naps. Another question is, if she naps for 1 or 2 hours in the morning with W2S, wouldn't she need longer A time? Sometimes she struggles when I put her to nap, shall I still try hard to put her down?

Again thank you so much!!

[Erin M]

It is hard to let things go a little bit -- our general rule of thumb around here is that if a baby wakes at the 30 minute mark and they're cranky, then they were too tired to nap for longer -- W2S can get him there, but sometimes by adjusting the routine you wouldn't have to go and do it.  I would honestly try the 2.15 for a few days and see where it gets you -- take note of how long it takes her to fall asleep, how long she sleeps, and how she wakes -- that will help us see where things need to be tweaked from there.  Honestly, when we had trouble like th at, especially with my dd1 I would have to cut back sometimes and help catch up on sleep.

I'm not sure if the eczema would cause the wakings -- I know sometimes that if babies are uncomfortable, sleep can be hard. Do you have a sense on that?  Does cream help at all?  Do you just leave her when she's mantra crying or moving around? 

[evelynmom]

I actually tried 2.15 A time and W2S yesterday. It took her only 1 or 2 minutes to fall asleep for the first two naps, and woke up happily after 1 hour and 20 minutes. But the third nap was a struggle. I rocked her for 15 minutes and she woke up after 20 minutes. It was at 6pm. Does that mean she doesn't need the third nap? Anyway I'll keep trying.

I don't really think she's uncomfortable. Her eczema is very mild and she's usually happy during the day. I apply ointment all the time. It helped.

 

Do you just leave her when she's mantra crying or moving around?

Again I am not very consistent here. Sometimes I just leave her, but it can take her 1 or 2 hours to fall asleep. So I tried patting her and rubbing her back. It also took a long time, which gave me a backache. I also tried patting her a little and wait, which turned out to be the best solution since I cannot think of anything else.

[Erin M]

I actually tried 2.15 A time and W2S yesterday. It took her only 1 or 2 minutes to fall asleep for the first two naps, and woke up happily after 1 hour and 20 minutes. But the third nap was a struggle. I rocked her for 15 minutes and she woke up after 20 minutes. It was at 6pm. Does that mean she doesn't need the third nap?

It sounds like you're close.  With a 1.20 nap, I think you might need a touch more A time -- but I wouldn't go the full 15 minutes, just try 5 minutes and see where it gets you.   Can you post what your day looked like -- I see things so much better when it's laid out like
E
A
S
 -- sorry if it's a pain, but it really helps me sort through things.

I would leave her unless she's crying like she needs you -- in my experience it actually doesn't help them fall back to sleep any faster if you're standing there.  It seems like her wakings are routine related, so let's just keep trying to sort out her daytime routine and that should help make the NWs decrease.  Sound like a plan? 

[evelynmom]

That sounds like a good plan!

Yesterday was a total messup. I had to leave her to the babysitter on Monday, Wednesday and Friday. She kept her awake for 3.30 after a 2 hour nap. Then she napped for 20 minutes and woke up crying. Then at 6 it took me forever to put her to nap again and she woke up 20 minutes later. I'll have to reinforce to our babysitter to follow the schedule closely.

Here was what we did the day before yesterday.
8:30 wake up
E -- 9:00 BF and cereals
A -- 9:30-10:45
S -- 10:45-12:05
E -- 1:00 BF and cereals
A -- 1:30 - 2:20
S -- 2:20-3:40
A -- 3:40-5:00
E -- 5:00 BF
A -- 5:00-6:00
S -- 6:20 (took me some time to make her nap)
A -- 6:40-8:00
8:00 bedtime

As you can see, if we have short A time and a not very long nap, it would be harder to put things in EAS format, especially in the afternoon. Do you think we should go with a 3.30 feeding schedule?

Thank you so much!

[Erin M]

Ugh, daycare/babysitters can be so tricky, in whatever format it takes!  My LOs always refused to nap at daycare!

Anyway, that helps -- I tend to think you need to bump your A time out by just a bit  -- try 2.20 for your A times and see what happens -- you most likely need to lost the cat nap completely so if you can push the A times and get longer naps, you'll pretty much be there.  You can do an early bed time on those nights when you don't have enough time to do the cat nap. 

As for the feeding, as long as she's not asking for food at the 3.30 mark, it doesn't matter at this point if you feed her right when she wakes up or a little into her A time.  My ds was a horrible napper at that age and we fed at all different points in his A time.  If she's going to get a better feed if you feed her at closer to the 4 hour mark, I'd do that, otherwise 3.30 is fine too.

[evelynmom]

I know! My DD1 never napped well at daycare either! I wrote a detailed schedule for my babysitter. I hope she can follow.

I think early bedtime is a good idea. Yesterday her last catnap end up being 6:30-7:00. Then it was a struggle at bedtime. So next time I'll just drop the catnap.

Thanks again! I'll report the progress later.

[Erin M]

Yesterday her last catnap end up being 6:30-7:00. Then it was a struggle at bedtime. So next time I'll just drop the catnap.

Oh, I have so been there, done that!

Good luck!

[evelynmom]

OK. The 30 minute naps are back.

On Friday, our babysitter followed my instruction closely. My DD napped 1.5 hour in the morning, 2 hours in the afternoon with 2.15 A-time, then early bedtime.

On Saturday, I started 2.20 A time. She had a restless 2 hour nap with my constant assistance and 2 30 minute naps later on. Became very cranky after the 30 minute nap.

Sunday, 2.20 A time again. She had 3 30 minute naps and became cranky after the 2nd one.

Does that mean that 2.20 A time is too long for her? I'm going to let my babysitter try 2.15 again today and see how it works.

Her NW seems better though. They are more "focused" around ~11, ~2, ~4. Since I feed her at 12 and 5, she would stay awake from ~11 and ~4 until I feed her. I didn't want to feed her at the time she woke up because it was only about 3 hours after last feeding. But the long NW has been a big problem now. Shall I just feed her at 11 and 4? I'm afraid she would then wake up more frequently for feeding.

[Erin M]

30 minute naps are generally too much A time -- I'm guessing you need to stick with 2.15 for now -- amazing the difference 5 minutes seems to make! 

I didn't want to feed her at the time she woke up because it was only about 3 hours after last feeding. But the long NW has been a big problem now.

What's she doing at 11 -- can you settle her and she'll wake again a short while later?  You can always try to feed at 11 and see if she goes right back to sleep -- sometimes it's good to actually rule something out when you're trying to sort out NWs. 

How's she doing with feeding during the day?  Does she take good feeds with the babysitter when you're not around? 

[evelynmom]

30 minute naps are generally too much A time -- I'm guessing you need to stick with 2.15 for now -- amazing the difference 5 minutes seems to make! 

I know! My babysitter did 2.15 A time yesterday. DD napped for 2 hours in the morning but refused to nap when she tried to put her down another 2.15 A time later. It then ended up with a 3.30 A time. So my new plan is to stick to the 2.15 A time but extend it if her nap is longer.

 

What's she doing at 11 -- can you settle her and she'll wake again a short while later?

Yes, it's exactly as you said! I actually tried to feed her at ~11 these two nights. She fell right back to sleep. So I guess I'll just feed her at that time. It didn't work so well at ~4 though. She still struggled for an hour after feeding and went back to sleep after 5.

Her feeding during the day goes very irregular. Sometimes she only eats 2 oz, sometimes 7 oz! Even with BF, she could eat 10 mimutes on each side for once, then only 5 minutes on one side for another. So you think the NW might be due to hunger?

By the way, nice picture & cute little baby!

[Erin M]

My babysitter did 2.15 A time yesterday. DD napped for 2 hours in the morning but refused to nap when she tried to put her down another 2.15 A time later. It then ended up with a 3.30 A time.

Tricky little monkeys that they are, some babies actually do better with differing amounts of A time throughout the day -- so if you can't get her down on the same amount of A time between the first and second nap, it could be that she actually needs more before that second nap.  When mine were babies we always did our longest A time before BT and it worked out for us. 


That constant resettling is pretty typical hunger waking, so I'd say she's definitely hungry at 11 -- I supposed she "shouldn't" be hungry at that time, but it seems as if she is so I'd just go ahead and feed her.  The 4AM waking is more likely routine related if she's not going back to sleep after being fed -- so I say we keep working on straightening out the naps and hope that it helps with the second waking. 

By the way, nice picture & cute little baby!

Thanks!