Support for dropping the nap part 9.

[Mama_Mia]

Hi Ana,

For us, quiet time is at 1:30 and M is put into his crib in the dark with white noise playing. He goes down at 1:30 because that was his nap time. And so he has the option of taking a nap or not. After a week of staying and reading to him or talking very quietly, he got used to being put there. So now he stays there by himself very quietly until 2:15. I get him up at 2:15 because if he does nap he is only allowed a 45 min nap. Any days that he for some reason is fussy when put down I will give him a book to read in the dark. And I have no idea how he does it, but he actually lays there turning pages and looking at it in the pitch black. LOL

[trimbler]

Haven't been on here for a while so nice to see some familiar faces - hello again

Well we're at the early stages of nap capping/extending morning A time but things are going a bit wonky now so I hoped those of you who've been through this stage might have some tips?

About 8 months ago M was doing:

7am WU
1-3pm nap
7:30pm BT

Then when he started to struggle to sleep at BT we pushed it back gradually until 8pm. Eventually he was getting to sleep later and later and we found that with less than 11h night sleep he really struggled the next morning, but was refreshed after his 2h nap. So we started nap capping gradually, which seemed to work well until a couple of months ago, when he was doing:

7am WU
1-2:15 nap
7:45pm BT

Then we started having the usual winter illnesses, molars and poo refusal leading to lots of discomfort etc etc, so did the following for a while:

7am WU (sometimes letting him sleep until 7:15 at weekends)
1-2:30 nap
7-7:30 BT, depending on how he'd slept the night before, how tired he was, etc.

This was our emergency measure to get through his various issues, however now that he seems to be done with that for the moment, he seems to have got so used to the longer nights that he's not resisting BT any more, he's resisting his nap. So after a few naps where PD has been at 1pm but he didn't get to sleep until 2pm (I've not let him sleep any later than 3pm), I decided I had to do something different, so started waking him at 6:45am, to keep the nap at the same time in relation to other fixed points in the day, but extend his morning A time and slightly shorten the night (but still > 11h). This did seem to be helping him to get to sleep for his nap more quickly, but for example today he again didn't get to sleep until 1:30pm, so I'm not sure if I should be extending his morning A time further or wait longer to see if he stabilises? Any ideas? He's not yet had an unbroken nap with the new 6.25h A time, he's always stirred at 45mins, but I'm not sure if it's OT or UT??? We've had some EW the last couple of mornings but yesterday was DH waking him as he tried to creep out early, and today he woke at 5am asking for water but then self-settled fairly quickly.

Sorry to ramble, what were your LOs morning A times like before you got to this stage of actually needing some no nap days, and what about nap lengths? I've somehow got it in my head that he'll need to be able to manage 7h well with probably 1h or less of a nap, before he's really ready to start dropping it?

Thanks all of you - sorry I can't say anything useful to those of you who are so much further along, only that I'm sure you can all look forward to the day when they no longer need to nap at all and we don't have to worry about being home at a certain time, etc!

[barbaraz78]

Well, F does 6.5-7 h A time in the morning, but he needs less A time in the afternoon. Before starting some no nap days we were at 6.5-7 h morning A, 1.15-1.30 h nap, 5-5.5 h afternoon A. Then now he's taking longer to go to sleep for nap and sometimes he refuses it. And if he sleeps more than 1.5h, like yesterday at daycare, he goes to sleep at 10.30 pm and has less than 10 h night... But this is another story...
However, F copes well with a night between 10.5 and 11 h, so we had periods of 10.5 h nights and we didn't need to cap the nap.

[Mama_Mia]

Hi Trimbler.

M has been on a 45 min nap since, well forever now. He has a 6 h 15 m  first A time before his "quiet time" of 45min- 1 hour. Then he has an A of 3.5 hours before bed. With 30 min of falling asleep time, he has 12.5-13 hours of sleep at night. So his day looks like this..

7wu
1:15-2:15 quiet time
5:45 bt
6-6:30 sleeping

[clairebear79]

Hi trimbler. For months O did up 7am nap1-3/3.30 bed 8. A couple of months ago he suddenly started sleeping in til 8 or 9am, & would then not need to nap at his usual time, so we decided to start trying some no nap days & would push on through to an early bedtime at 7-7.30pm. He'd do another long night so a 2nd no nap day would often follow, & they have naturally increased like this. Every few days he'd be really tired so he'd do a big nap 1.30-4pm (we've recently found 1pm was too early so pushed it later)  bed 8pm, followed by a long night & off we'd go again.

Since going into a bbb 2 weeks ago, no more lie ins,  his wakeup has gone back to its former 6.30-7am so we've had to reinstate the nap. Naptime is still 1.30pm, but its often 1.45pm or even 2pm before he's asleep, i will let him nap til 4pm latest & bedtime is still 8pm. He settles fine even though A to BT is only 4hrs but I think its because his morning is long at 6.5-7hrs. Sounds like your little guy could use a slightly longer morning.x

[trimbler]

Thanks for those replies, I'm thinking we may need to extend the morning slightly again. Just scared to do it too quickly as he's already getting very hyper before his nap, which makes it harder for him to settle, and if that's down to OT then pushing it later could make it worse... But it could just as easily be him getting over-excited rather than OT, just don't want the one to turn into the other before he starts feeling sleepy!

Claire that's interesting about the bbb, we're aiming to introduce it for naps in a couple of weeks (when DH is off for half-term), but I'm concerned that he'll get so excited that he'll find it impossible to settle! Naps used to be the more stable sleep period, so I had thought it would be better to start the bbb for naps, but now it's the other way round I'm not sure... I just don't think I'm ready for lots of NW/EW with M coming into our room thinking it's funny to wake us up! Atm he's safely 'trapped' in sleeping bag and cot. So has O's wake up stabilised again now? I remember you having a rough time with extreme EW during the 2-1, or was it the 18mo regression? Amazing to see that he's been sleeping in until 8-9am until recently, I bet you'd never have thought that possible a year ago!

[TB9]

How is everyone doing?

DD had a span of 7 days or so that she didn't nap last week, by day 7 she needed a nap but we had visitors and I knew she would be too busy for napping so she held off until day 8 to nap   She napped for a few days in a row after that, and she's now had 3 days in a row of no nap.  Last time she did this she started waking earlier than she should, but this time around I'm doing a better job of making sure she is in bed after 10.5hr days (she just can't handle 11hr days) and we're having less bedtime meltdowns so I think things are going well so far this time...except she did have some nws last night so I may have to cut her day back to 10hrs today 

Hope all is well with everyone!

[clairebear79]

Tinkerbell -sounds like all is going well! We have to go shorter with subsequent nn days too, we also find 10hrs is good.

Trimbler- yea O was horrendous with his EW through the 3-2 right through to the 2-1 & then we had another blip at 18 months! i'd never in a million years have believed he'd sleep in the way he is doing now! Wrt bbb he's been great, even for naps, no callbacks & never gets out-am amazed! (Of course know this could change at any moment but enjoying it while it lasts  ).  We went for it cold turkey rather than introducing it gradually, & did bt first rather than nap, mostly bc i figured he's def tired at the end of the day so less likely to mess around. Good luck!

Well ladies you were right re the earlier mornings since going in his bbb were a phase. We've had 2 weeks of napping for a couple of hours every day, the last few days he's suddenly back to 8.30-9am wu & no nap!

Hope everyone else is doing ok?x

[twogirlsmommy]

Hi Ladies I've come to join b/c I really just need support. We have dropped the nap as it was effecting bedtime when she did nap or she was getting out of bed during nap and basically trashing her room.  Unfortunelty now I am dealing with NW and EW and they are killing me.  Before her routine looked like this:

Up: anywhere between 6:45 and 8
Nap: 1-2:30/3
Bedtime: 7:30

Now with no nap we are doing this:

Up: Anywhere from 5-6:45
Bedtime: 6:30 (she goes right to sleep.

This morning she was up at 5:30 which is only an 11 hr night.  Sunday night I pushed it out b/c we were at sil and she was probably in bed by 7:30 the latest but she was up from 3am-5am and then fell back asleep till 7am.

I don't think we've been at this a full week yet but I could be wrong (i have overtired pregnant brain lol) but how long before she maybe starts tacking on? is an 10-11 hour night all I'm going to get? Should I push bedtime till 7 and hope she atleast sleeps till 6?

The other problem is she ALWAYS has to poop no matter what time she wakes up and then will go back into her room for a little bit but then ends up hanging out in hallway.  Its a mess lol and she's lucky 1 of us a light sleeper so that I atleast hear her.

[Mama_Mia]

Welcome Brennasmommy,  There is such a big difference in age in our LO's that I'm not sure if the same would be true, but I think your day is too long causing OT which creates the ew's and nw's. This is the same thing we go through when M doesnt get enough sleep. I would try cutting her day down to 10.5-11 hours to see if she will tack on. With her nap she was doing around a 12.5 hr day on the long side and now without a nap she is still doing a 12.5 hr day on the long side. You can also try "quiet time' which could help her to rest enough to make it a bit longer to bt. Hopefully someone with an older LO will jump on soon.

[Mama_Mia]

Ladies I am stuck, I think M has totally given up the nap now. It has been over 2 weeks since he has napped. I dont remember exactly how long though. He was doing great but the last 2 nights he has had an hour long nw, so I know he is OT. He is also waking earlier in the morning. The problem is I have tried an earlier nap/later nap/ more exercise/less exercise. We have also noticed that he is going through something, dont know if its related to being ot or just a change, but instead of arguing now when he wants something, he will just go off and lay/sit and sulk.  Does anyone have any ideas on what I can try or what might be going on?

[badpixie]

Hiya, This is just a quickie, cos I haven't got much time.

My little fella is not even 2 yet, but naptime and bed time have been getting more and more of a struggle, until today when he has refused to go to sleep for his nap! We were trying from about 12.15, and we have just given up at 1.30ish. Could it be normal to drop the nap this early or is something else going on here? He seems tired to me, his cheeks are flushed and he has a bit of the 'mental' about him, I'm expecting him to crash at some point this afternoon, and then I'm not sure what we'll do! Gonna try and keep things low key this arvo.

He normally wakes up at 7ish, nap about 12 - 1.30 bed at 8.30/9, we aim for earlier BT but is just aint happening!

I've made the nap earlier to try to get an earlier bed time, but its creeping later again. And he's impossible to wake up before 1.5hrs!

WWYD?? Any BTDT?

[clairebear79]

Brennasmommy -welcome! Did you try pushing her nap a touch later or cutting it a bit shorter before you dropped the nap completely? Would you say she's high sleep needs? & does she seem OT behaviour-wise? It does sound like she may be a bit ot, esp with the nap drop being sudden, so perhaps offer a nap every few days, or if she absolutely won't, then some super early bedtimes might help, like mama c suggested. That said, she's quite a bit older than ours, so might be worth a thread / checking out average sleep amounts for her age as i seem to think it drops at around age 3. There's not much point for eg putting her to bed at 5.30pm if the average sleep for her in 24hrs is 11.5-12hrs as you'll just get stuck with an ew. Not to say that wld happen of course, just that her sleep needs may be different to my 2.5yo iyswim? As for the nw, what is she doing when she wakes - crying/chatting/getting out of bed? How do you respond to this? Could you put up a gate to keep her in her room?


Mama c - i'm not sure i've got much useful advice sorry. I guess just keep up the early bedtimes & offer a nap if he seems OT.

Badpixie-welcome! Tbh i doubt your ds is nap dropping, round 2yrs its common to have some nap resistance & after a few weeks they go back to napping again
 One thing we had to do at that age was shift the nap back to around 1pm, i notice you start trying at 12.15 & its probably too early for him now & likely why you're getting such late bedtimes. I found with my ds if his morning A time was too short he'd mess round at bedtime for ages, but with a later nap & so a longer morning A time, he settled much better at bt. For ages we did up 7am, nap 1-3/3.30pm bed 8pm.

All ok here, o's still doing a mix of nap & no nap days, keeping ontop of OT fairly well. He's poorly atm & napped on me today for the first time in aaaages.x

[badpixie]

Thanks Clairebear, I hope its a phase, but saying that he's in bed now at 6;30, which means we've got the whole evening to ourselves! What a luxury, gonna watch a long film with guns and swearing in He used to be on a 1-3.30 nap but he wasn't getting to sleep till gone 9, nearly 10! Which is why we moved it back. It worked for a while too, but now bedtimes creeping later again.
I'm sure he'll be exhausted tomorrow, so I've no doubt he'll nap.
What is the normal range of ages for nap dropping? My friend reckoned her daughter dropped her nap just before her 2nd birthday, she always had low sleep needs though, but then so does my lo, but it seems so young!

[Mama_Mia]

What is the normal range of ages for nap dropping? My friend reckoned her daughter dropped her nap just before her 2nd birthday, she always had low sleep needs though, but then so does my lo, but it seems so young

That all depends on the "type" of LO you have. When I raised my 1st 4 children they were angel babies and would nap anywhere/anytime they were tired. So I never had to worry about putting them down for a nap. Of course this was also 20 years ago when we parents did things alot different. Now raising a spirited LO that has to have pitch black and loud white noise in order to sleep I will have to try to give him a nap for a lot longer than I had to worry about it with my others. Since I know he wont fall asleep on his own if he is tired. I think that when you have cut the nap down to 30 min or less and made it as late as possible in the day and they still refuse, they are probably ready to give it up. But until that point it is more a matter of getting the timing right.

My first thought when looking at your schedule is that he is OT from his days being too long. I would first try doing a nap after 6hrs A time in the morning for a week, if he doesnt nap leave him there if at all possible until his nap should be over. Then if he still isnt napping after that week I would go to 6.5 hours A for the 2nd week and see what happens. BUT my LO is a VERY spirited little boy that has always had high A times and he didnt start doing 6.5 hr A time until after 2. So maybe, I know I'm going backwards here, start with 5 hr A time for a week, then 5.5 hr A time then 6 hr and see what results you get. The other thing to keep in mind is that if he is not napping then his day needs to be cut down to 10-10.5 hours even if he laid in his crib/bed for an hour.