Support for dropping the nap part 9.

[barbaraz78]

Is he really awful after 10-10.5hrs night sleep on a nap day? I honestly don't think thats too bad (on paper) at his age if he's having a decent length nap but obv his behaviour is the best indicator,

This is important. We also have 10-10.5 h nights on nap days (1-1.15 h nap) but I found that it works well for F.

We are doing set bt, and when F doesn't nap we also have 12-13 h days without the nap (we anticipate the bt of half an hour without a nap). At beginning he was very tired but now he is handling it very well if he doesn't have a too high level of activity. That means for us that F is much more tired the day after and usually naps very easily for a couple of days after the nn day. Then either the night becomes shorter toward 10 h or he skip a nap again.
Have you tried to offer a nap the day after he had a 12-13 h day without the nap?

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs vicki I wish I had advice hope my hugs are helpful

Yesterday we had a no nap day (planned) Z was fine till ~4/4.30 then a bit cr@p. did BT of 5.45 and he slept till 7.30am! Phew...at least I know the odd day he is ok. I'm thinking maybe 1 a week we do this (weekend) as there are lots of things on weekends during nap time ATM I know he will love YK?

Barbara - yeah Z is terrible with a nap shorter than 1hr15 even at 1.5 he's angry for a bit. He is easy to read though which is good, I can tell when he has hit his wall he also tacks on well.

[Truly Blessed]

Thanks Claire Honey, unfortunately BT any earier than 12 hours will most likely result in an earlier WU atm, so that would mean his day is longer the next day, unavoidably, so as much as I would like to take it easier on him (you know me  ) I don't think it's going to be possible to shift things slowly any more

Most of the time his mood is okay, but on a nap day we get 10 hours, so less than 11 in total, and I know for sure that's not enough, even though his mood isn't bad (he' a very cheers and funny little chap even at 6 am  )  he has shadows under his eyes and he can't pass a surface in the house without putting his head down on it. It's also extremely hard to get him to put his dummy away, as when he is tired he wants it constantly for comfort.

Thank you Barbara, that makes total sense to me, and it's helpful to know what F does as they're so similar in age.

Have you tried to offer a nap the day after he had a 12-13 h day without the nap?

Honestly I haven't tried anything purposefully for a while, because he is refusing naps in the house, and car naps depend on our day and the weather, as he won't nap in the car if the sun is out. But there is a chance that if I keep his days at 12 hours (if possible) that he will start to self regulate with naps here and there. However I think I will keep them short if possible,  because otherwise his night will be super short and although his sleep will be spread, it could end up being counter-productive, does that make sense 

Hugs vicki  I wish I had advice  hope my hugs are helpful

Yesterday we had a no nap day (planned) Z was fine till ~4/4.30 then a bit cr@p. did BT of 5.45 and he slept till 7.30am! Phew...at least I know the odd day he is ok. I'm thinking maybe 1 a week we do this (weekend) as there are lots of things on weekends during nap time ATM I know he will love YK?

Thanks Sara, (Hugs) to you too. Sam has an afternoon cut off time when his mood goes down hill too, so I make sure we are in the house then, so he can do something low key when he is at his most tired. He seems to pick up later funnily enough, he moves through it.

Today he was up at 6.30 and asleep bang on 6.30. He has been really happy, and in the car twice without napping. He actually fell asleep while I sang to him tonight, bless him. At least BT's are sorted, and the circus act is over for now LOL

If he wakes at 5.30 I have a plan. First I will cry  then I will take him downstairs and put Peppa on while I seep on the sofa LOL 

Thanks again everyone 

x.

[dijjibob]

Hi ladies,
We are along way into our nap dropping and much earlier than I had wished for.
LO is 28 months and is lower sleep needs, or I should say lower nap needs to keep nights long.
At the moment though I have run out of ideas, help please.
Routine
          6.00 - 6.40 wake
          1.00 nap time ( capped )
          7.15-7.30 bedtime

I have been capping nap now since she began capping it herself at 17 months. It has always been the case that if I don't cal her nap her overall sleep is less, and until now if has meant 7.30 bedtime and 7am wake up. Now I can no longer get the 7am wake up whatever we try, earlier nap. Later, with longer nap we just get earlier wake up.
I can never say what timed she asked exactly though as she never actually makes any noise until after 7, so unless I can tell if she is sleeping of awake on the video monitor I'm just guessing.
Some morning she is really tired and can't stay awake on nursery run at 11.30.
Ideally I think the nap needs to go, but she had a nursery run at 11.30 and days at childminders she has z school run at 3.00 , I know she will nap on one of them as she is so tired.
I was thinking maybe extending naps to get her less tired but I don't know how to avoid the shorter overall sleep.
She is still in a cot and I am avoiding moving to bed until got this sorted out.

[ZacsMumme]

Hun, it's just my opinion but if your LO is falling asleep like that in the car then I think she's OT ready for no nap. Ou will just get into an OT spiral YK?

How late have you tried the nap? - we do a 2-3.30 nap with 7.30 BT. Z often hangs out in bed till 8 but sleeps till 7-7.30am. You could do a 2-3.15 nap which is 1 sleep cycle? It may help you get a later WU and some LOs with a long first A do ok with the same BT.

[Truly Blessed]

Hugs to you (dijjibob) What length do you cap the nap at 

Is it possible that this is a regression, how long has it been going on 

I agree Sara, she could be getting more OT due to the nap and shorter nights, but something to think of also, is that her A time to bed may be too short now, and even though she is settling okay, she may be UT resulting in the earlier WU. What worked for us at this age is to bring the nap forward, giving at least 6 hours preferably more to BT. So something like this:

WU 6.00

Nap 11.30/12.00 for 30/45 mins

BT 7.00

So maybe if you could set off on the nursery run (how long does that take?) sooner you could let her nap then, even if it is for 20 mins, it may be all she needs to do better uuntil BT and then WU later.

Hope that helps.

x.

[dijjibob]

Thank you for help, currently been capping nap at 30 minutes but we have just spiralled into OT instead of adding more to night sleep she has got shorter nights and shorter nap,
She has just curled up on my lap and fell asleep, bless her. She really is too tired,
The later nap would be hard as she has to leavd at 3.00 at latest for school run when at childminders.
I was thinking an earlier nap, this has happened by accident on last few nursery days. But still had the ew although one morning it was 6.40 wake up which was great. Nursey run though is less than 10 minutes and I can't leave her in car to pick up dd1, asked a mom to pick her up for me the other day but can't do this everyday.
I know this is not the best but I am going to let her have an hour just to catch up today, then do later night tonight , got to catch up the OT. I know I would give out advice big to do z catch up nap but I think it's worth a shot.
I am so not ready for a nap drop totally yet, we have to do cm drop off in late afternoon some days , have to travel to grandmas once a week in an afternoon, just generally still do things in later afternoon with dd1.
Maybe if I try to do a few longer nap days she may catch up enough to manage a no nap day every few days, what do you think .

[barbaraz78]

I agree, she doesn't seem ready to drop the nap actually... It is possible that OT results from too short nap, in our case a 30 mins nap is really too short even now (at 3 yo) and if I have to put him down for 30 mins it is better to skip the nap and allowing a longer nap the day after. There are many los that prefer to keep a decent nap and shorten the night, so having the total sleep spread in night+nap, while other los prefer a long night. If your dd is ot with a short nap, maybe she prefer the first option. In that case, I would adjust bt as to expect a 10.30-11 h night, so if this is her night length the wu is not too early.

[dijjibob]

LO had a different plan to me and woke after 45 minutes herself, will stick to same bedtime tonight and see if that was just enough to keep some OT at bay. Ill have a think about options that suit our family, Thankyou so far

[Truly Blessed]

Hey dijjibob, CU naps are often a good idea. For me it was instinctive, if I felt it in my gut it would help then I went with it, but even if it doesn't result in a later WU the next day, it often helps the LO to have had their sleep spread out anyway, which can result in them feeling less OT, even if there hasn't been more sleep overall, IYKWIM 

Just want to make sure you have seen this  it could help 

The 1-0 transition...Advice and Tips to help you through.

Good Luck.x.

[*Kara*]

And.. I'm back!

We are in the middle of the 1-0 for sure... over the last couple of months, we had the odd no nap day.. but the last 2 weeks were awful - naps were becoming too late (think 230-3pm starts!) and waking DD after 90 mins or even 1 hr 15 meant I had a horrible monster in my house for a good hour.. her nights did not lengthen at all either... so we made a jump and I followed her lead.. she has done 3 days with no nap and her nights have ranged from 11hrs 45 - 13 hrs 15.  Most importantly, she is so happy all day!  Well rested and pleasant!  My kid is back!

Though it is day 4 now and she is showing signs it's catching up to her... but it's 140pm already and she doesn't want to nap!  ACK!  I do have some errands to do so hoping I can AP some sort of CN!

[TB9]

Sounds like our LOs have the same idea right now...DD hasn't napped in over a week.  She's generally happier during the day, but definitely has her rotten moments.  DH is more bothered than I am about it, i have to keep reminding him that it's normal for her to be a little cranky during nap dropping.  She did wake up 30min earlier than normal today so we did bedtime 15min earlier...hoping that will keep OT away and her wu from creeping too early.

Dijjibob - cutting naps was very tricky for us, DD often ended up OT if I cut shorter than 1hr15min and missed the right bedtime...I never quite got bedtime right I think.  I found I could push nap later so she didn't refuse it, and cut a bit off, but bedtime would usually have to be earlier than I anticipated.  Letting her nap up to 1.5hrs on the days she napped worked best for us, even if it meant nap refusal the next day.

Vicki - how is S doing?  Are you trying set bedtime?

[Truly Blessed]

(Hugs) Kara damage imitation is all you can do, I'll wager she'll take a CU nap soon or even go back to every day, it's back and forth with this transition IME.

Hey Tinkerbell. Honestly I am always unsure whether Sam's rotten moments are just because he's 3 or whether they are sleep related. Probably a bit of both. Hope you manage to strike a balance to avoid major OT. Thanks for asking about us Hun, actually I do have a thread running on TS now.

First day we did 12 hour day followed by 12 hours sleep.

Day 2, unavoidably 12.5 hour day (was caring for a relative) and he slept just 11.15. I know that some have said this is not bad, but I know Sam and it's not enough, he is so tired. Going to go for a 12 hour day today, unless he naps in the car, which I'd say is a good possibility today.

x.

[barbaraz78]

I know that some have said this is not bad, but I know Sam and it's not enough, he is so tired.

Yeah, we are doing ca. 11 h night, but we have 4-5 naps in a week, and I know that F needs the nap with such night length, a the day after nn he falls asleep easily both for nap and night.
I don't think he could do consistently 12 h nights however, so the nap has to be.

[*Kara*]

I hope you are right Vicki... day 6 with no nap... and we still haven't had our classic OT signs of super restless first part of night or EW.  She was for sure a touch crabbier today though... will push for a nap tomorrow.