Afternoon Nap Issues

[Lindsay27]

Hi Ladies,

My 9 month old has started to have some afternoon nap issues.  We just taught independent sleep about a month ago (previously he was always rocked, but refused to be after he learnt to crawl), and he took to independent sleep very easily and within a few days he was going to sleep for naps and BT completely on his own.  Now, our afternoons are a mess.  He's going through some major SA right now, so independent sleep for the PM nap is pretty well out of the question.  Our current A time is about 3hrs 20mins/3.5 hrs.

I am not sure if our issues are A time related or what.  When I try to put him down, he pretty much refuses the nap, despite how tired he appears.  If I leave the room he's hysterical, but I am having an awful time settling him in his crib because he just fights me to stand up.  It has been taking forever to get him to sleep, and when he finally does go down, he only naps 30mins (OT, likely because it takes so long to get him down).  I started to think that maybe he was UT when I was trying to put him down, so I bumped his A time by 15mins yesterday and it didn't make any difference - still took 20mins to get him to sleep, and then a 30min nap.  I can always resettle him easily when he wakes and he will sleep about another hour.

Typical day...

E - 6:40am (solids @ 8am)
A
S - 10am - 11:30am

E - 12/12:30 (solids, bottle @ 2:30)
A
S - I would attempt a 2:50pm/3pm nap, but by the time I get him to sleep, it's usually more like 3:15 - 3:45, resettle and sleep until 4:30/4:45ish

E - 5/5:30pm (solids)
A
S - 7:45pm (bottle right before bed)

Appreciate a set of eyes   Not sure if it is just a case of bad SA, or if our routine needs an adjustment.  Thanks!

[scruffymax]

Hi Lindsay, we have done set naps for a while, and at 9mo was doing a similar morning to yours but pm nap at 2:30pm and BT at 7pm.  I'd also not let her sleep past 4:15pm to preserve BT.  For some reason, and it seems to be the same with everyone I talk to, the morning nap is always easy and the afternoon nap is often the hard one.

[*Becky*]

I would pull back to 2.30pm for a couple of days to see if it helps as pp has suggested to rule out OT and then if not push out to more like 3.15pm for PD. He is doing a good night and a good am nap so may just need a little more A time. We had this problem with DS and it did turn out to be UT.
Good luck!

[Lindsay27]

I'd venture to say that I *think* it is more likely a case of UT rather than OT, though...the 30min nap seems to be OT, but I'm not sure if I'd get him down any easier at 2:30, but I'll try.  He is spirited, so I tend to err on the side of him being OT before I put him down.  I assume on a set nap that I would have to make sure his morning WU is at the same time each day?  This morning he slept until 7:30am so his AM nap is going to be close to 11am, so I don't think I could try for a 2:30pm nap because he would be seriously UT.

If it was UT, I'm not sure why extending his A time didn't work...but I only tried for 1 day so maybe that's it.  We can't try the 2:30pm nap today because he slept too late, and also we have a play date, but I'll try tomorrow and see what happens.

[scruffymax]

Good luck.  With set naps, we have a latest WU time of 7am but LO usually wakes sometime between 6-6:30am and we try to leave her to play in the cot until 7am or as close as possible.

[Lindsay27]

Because he woke at 7:30am today his AM nap wasn't until close to 11am which made his PM nap close to 4pm...that's if he took his PM nap.  He completely refused it.  Nothing I did would settle him to sleep, and if I tried to let him settle on his own he was hysterical.  After 20mins I just gave up, so he didn't have a PM nap at all today.  His last A time ended up being 6.5hrs!!  He was clearly tired this evening, but wasn't too fussy.  He's had 2 OT wakings since he's gone to bed for the night, which I completely expected.  Sigh.

I'll try the 2:30pm set nap, but I am worried he'll be too UT - that said, with the current 3hr 20min A + settling he's be taking OT ones, so who knows.  I'll give it a go though and see what happens   We'll figure it out from there.

[Lindsay27]

So the last 2 days he has completely refused his PM nap making his last A time before bed 6+ hours    Last night was even worse because we had a family dinner to go to and so he didn't go to bed until 9pm.  I *think* we had 4 or 5 NWs last night, but honestly...too tired to remember!

His morning naps are still great, he goes down independently and sleeps 1.5hrs.  Today his AM nap ended at 11:10am, so I gave him his bottle at 2pm and he was asleep by 2:20pm and then he woke at 3pm but was easily resettled.  I didn't even attempt independent sleep and I just rubbed his back and head until he fell asleep.  I got him down, but I honestly think that it is kind of a fluke because he's been pretty cranky today (probably still tired from all the NWs), and the for the past week the rubbing and patting hasn't even worked.

So, not really sure where to go from here?  The 40min nap would suggest UT, though he was really tired when I put him down, it was under his usual A time.  I haven't really attempted the set 2:30pm nap yet because the weekend has been a little nuts, but maybe I'll try that tomorrow and see what happens.

[Lindsay27]

How does the 2 - 1 transition normally work?  I was explaining my nap woes to a friend (her twin boys are 4 days older than my DS), and she said she only lets her boys nap 50mins in the morning, and then they have a long afternoon nap.  Wasn't sure if maybe trying that would benefit us?  It just seems like no matter what his A time in the afternoon, he is constantly resisting.

I wasn't sure if this was a better strategy as we are sort of approaching the 2 - 1 transition in the next few months.

[scruffymax]

Hi Lindsay, I never tried the short morning nap/long afternoon nap but I know there's a school of thought that it's the way to go.  I think the day when he had the 40min pm nap that you could resettle probably wasn't UT as I don't think he would resettle if UT.  If you think you've had a good crack at the current routine and it's not working, it might be worth capping the morning nap quite short and going for a long pm nap.  I know with my LO if she ever did a 40min morning nap I could put her down about 30min early for her pm nap and she would always do 1.5-2hr and then bedtime normal time.  If she didn't sleep in the afternoon I'd put her down for BT 30min early.  That was on set nap times though, not based on A times.

[Lindsay27]

Last night was horrendous, worst night in a long long time   I let him sleep until 7:30am this morning because he SO needed it from being up half the night.  So, our AM nap wasn't until close to 11am, and then I woke him at 12:30.  I put him down for his PM nap at 3:15 - so, a little under his usual A time, but he seemed genuinely tired...an hour later and he still wasn't down and I was having a breakdown.  DH came home from work and got him to fall asleep in his arms for about a half hour.

I think because our nights have been so awful we haven't really had a good chance to do a set 2:30pm nap because his AM naps in the morning end up being late due to a late WU.  I guess I will just have to bite the bullet and wake him at 7am at the latest even if his nights have been awful.

I'm not sure how many days I have left in me...up half the night and no PM nap.  Ugh!

[scruffymax]

Hugs!  We're having a bad time here with teething, SA, wonder week, 2-1 etc too.  It's really rough especially when you are used to a happy baby who sleeps well.

[amayzie]

Have you seen this thread? It gives you some good ideas on the 2-1 transition

10/ 11mo sleep gone wonky? Read this first!

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))) was just going to pop in and say if you're going to set naps, you probably need to set both, not just the afternoon one.  Wasn't sure if that's what you were planning?

[Lindsay27]

Oh, no...I didn't realize that you had to set both.  That's probably why I was getting so confused!  I'm struggling to wrap my head around how these set naps work...they are regardless of A time and WU time?  I'm confused how those variables would not cause some naps to be OT and some UT - ie. if I set his AM nap at 10am, but he woke up at say 7am that day, would he not be UT?  What do you recommend for set nap times at this age - 10am & 2:30pm?  Should I try for 3 or so days and then try the capping AM nap approach?   

His night last night was the worst yet - he woke every single hour from the time he went to bed until he woke up this morning.  These nights are really throwing his days off because he's so tired, so I never know what to do any more.

[Charjanemom]

I started set naps a month ago. My dd is 10 months old now. We did
S 930 wake at 1130
S 230 wake by 4
Bt 730

It worked amazing for a month. Now starting to see some changes

I did float that am nap a bit as dd started pulling some 11.5/12 hr nights so some days 930 nap was 10 nap but I didn't find it effected things too much. I think you need to stick to it like glue for a week to see what happens. I noticed immediate results after 2 days and really long nights after the first week. The idea is that you are setting their clock. It's hard to let go of the ut/ot worry but I know for me I have felt amazing not worrying about all that...up until yesterday when we started getting ew