Author Topic: bit concerend about calcium intake  (Read 7016 times)

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bit concerend about calcium intake
« on: February 07, 2013, 23:06:01 pm »
The last couple of weeks DS has reduced the amount of milk he will take in a day.  He has never been a milk lover, but it looks like he is trying to drop it altogether. He's down to about 100ml or less in the morning and possibly 3 sips in the evening (half a cup or less across the day).

His calcium intake in other forms:
I can't give yogurt because he is always sick (silent reflux but yogurt always come up).
He does eat cheese but seems to be getting less and less, certainly not a full serving per day.
He does eat sprats (so fish with bones in), but only about once or twice per fortnight.
He doesn't eat green leafy veg despite being offered regularly for 18 months, once in a blue moon he will eat a stem of broccoli.
I am soya intolerant so I have never offered soya beans or soya drinks.
Nuts, well a teaspoon of peanut butter about once per week, not much at all.
Bread he does eat, but I'm not sure how much calcium is in bread and if this is going to be enough, do I need to give him any specific type of bread?

Is there another calcium source I am not covering here?
I've heard of powdered milk being added to foods but have no idea how to go about this.
Any tips on how to make his milk more appetising?  He does like cream but refluxes if I let him have more than a couple of spoons of it, I was thinking about adding a little cream to his milk to make it more yummy?


Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2013, 23:09:40 pm »
Hun what about dairy food? Z loves this and it's thick and tasty, like a custard. I give it as a yummy snack as it is sweet usually, but here they have the heart foundation tick so not to sugary etc.
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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2013, 23:42:52 pm »
I hadn't thought about custard at all!  I wonder if I could make a sugar free custard, must go looking for recipes.


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2013, 23:43:45 pm »
You could totally make it yourself - I'm too lazy with 2 now. You could add flavours too, or fruit.
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DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2013, 00:06:22 am »
It's a great idea.  Making it myself would mean including eggs (rather than thickener) which would be brilliant too as I'm always looking for new ways to get protein into him.
I can't find a recipe yet.  They all have sugar substitute which I don't think is healthy for LOs.  I'd rather a sugar free recipe if possible, just so I wouldn't care if he ate stacks of it!


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2013, 12:22:18 pm »
I think blackberries, oranges, and raisins are ok sources of calcium.  Each doesn't have as much calcium as milk, but every little bit helps -- BTDT, DS is casein free so getting enough calcium from food sources is always difficult. I think you can also get calcium supplements if you talk to your ped. We do not use them as DS is on a variety of supplements for other reasons and I don't want him on anymore. 

Or what about a smoothie with no yogurt, just milk? Or if he eats scrambled eggs, could you add some cheese to that? (They are very smart so sometimes hiding doesn't always work ::) )
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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2013, 14:34:21 pm »
Thanks for the ideas.
I think blackberries, oranges, and raisins are ok sources of calcium
He'd happily eat these all day long. I didn't realise they had calcium so that's good to know.  He would eat just fruit if I let him (but would get a very sore tummy!).

I'll look into those supplements too.  Obviously I'd rather he got all he needs from his diet but I don't want him short on calcium and it does look pretty low the way things are going.

Yes, I'll try a smoothie instead of just milk in the morning and see how he responds.  He might go for it where as scrambled eggs with cheese he will not go for  ::)
I do add cheese wherever I can but it's bits here and there, the days when he would just eat blocks of cheese are becoming a distant memory.


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2013, 14:47:31 pm »
Creations, F also isn't a milk lover and doesn't drink more than 150 mL in the morning. It is like that from when he was less than 2... We weaned the bt milk at 14 mo. I think it is quite OK for his age, if he also eats cheese and other calcium sources. I think that mostly this is due to the fact that milk is "boring", as he usually doesn't eat the same food two days in a row, while milk is the same every day. Anyway, to make his morning milk more varied I usually add "barely coffee" (which is an Italian hot drink that seems coffee and is made by barely, so of course no caffeine in there), or cocoa powder. In these case I also add a bit of sugar or honey to make it sweeter. By alternating plain milk with these, I manage to let him drink around 150-200 mL. 
Barbara


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2013, 15:06:19 pm »
 I remember thinking that dd wasn't getting enough calcium...until I looked it up and saw that she was having plenty!  Aim for 500 mg as an average. 8 oz of milk has 300mg, so you'd be more than halfway there with a serving of milk, even if he sips it throughout the day.  My dd didn't love milk, but we got it in in other ways too...like adding it to oatmeal and adding it to french toast/eggy bread mixture. You may find that if you really track it, it isn't as bad as you think.   :)

  Here is something I found for you:

 

How much calcium does your child need?
Ages 1 to 3 years: 500 milligrams (mg) per day

Ages 4 to 8 years: 800 mg per day

Your child doesn't have to get the recommended daily amount of calcium every day. Instead, aim for that amount as an average over the course of a few days or a week.

The best sources of calcium
Dairy products such as milk, yogurt, and cheese are some of the best sources of calcium, but you'll also find it in less expected places. Some calcium-rich foods to try:

•1/4 cup raw tofu, prepared with calcium sulfate: 217 mg
(The calcium content of tofu varies, depending on how it's processed. Check the label.)
•1/2 cup low-fat plain yogurt: 207 mg
•1 tablespoon blackstrap molasses: 200 mg
•1/2 cup low-fat fruit yogurt: 122 to 192 mg
•1/2 cup calcium-fortified orange juice: 133 to 250 mg
•1/4 cup part-skim ricotta cheese: 167 mg
•1/2 cup milk: 150 mg
•1/2 cup chocolate milk: 144 mg
•1/2 ounce Swiss cheese: 112 mg
•1/2 cup vanilla frozen yogurt, soft serve: 102 mg
•1/2 ounce cheddar cheese: 102 mg
•1 slice calcium-fortified bread: 100 mg
•1/2 ounce mozzarella: 91 mg
•1/2 slice cheese pizza (fast food chain): 91 mg
•1/4 cup collard greens: 89 mg
•1/4 cup homemade pudding (from mix or scratch): 76 mg
•1 tablespoon tahini (sesame seed butter): 64 mg
•1/4 cup turnip greens: 62 mg
•1 ounce canned pink salmon, solids with bone: 61 mg
•1/4 cup cooked spinach: 60 mg
•1/2 cup ready-to-eat cereal, calcium fortified: 51 mg
•1/2 cup soy beverage, calcium fortified: 40 to 250 mg
 

The amount of calcium a food contains will vary somewhat, depending on the brand, the size of the fruit or vegetable, and so on.

Kids may eat more or less than the amounts of food shown, depending on their age and appetite. You can estimate the nutrient content accordingly.

Tips for maximizing your child's calcium intake
Some experts believe that many children are falling short of their calcium requirement, in part because juice and other nondairy drinks are so popular that kids are drinking less milk. Here are some simple steps you can take to make sure your child gets enough calcium:

•Use milk instead of water when making cereals, hot cocoa, and soups.
•Use evaporated milk in place of regular milk in recipes – it has twice the calcium of regular milk.
•Add yogurt to fruit salads; nonfat milk powder to pancake batter, sauces, and smoothies; and cheese to vegetables, sauces, and mashed potatoes.
•Buy calcium-fortified juice, bread, and cereal.
•Vitamin D helps the body absorb calcium, so make sure your child is getting enough vitamin D, too.

  Also....look at this list...it isn't too hard to hit the mark when you add some of this up over the course of a day!

  Food Amount of Calcium in milligrams (mg)
1 Tbsp sesame seeds 90
1 Tbsp Tahini 63
1/4 cup Brazil nuts or hazelnuts 55
8 medium sardines (canned) 370
3 oz salmon 180
1/2 cup oysters (canned) 60
1/2 cup shrimp (canned) 40
1/2 cup bok choy 75
1 cup kale 94
1 cup broccoli 178
1 cup celery 54
1 cup cooked green beans 58
1 cup cooked butternut squash 84
1 cup cooked sweet potato 70
1 medium naval orange 56
2/3 cup raisins 53
10 medium dried figs 269
1 cup calcium-fortified orange juice 300
1 cup enriched soy milk 300
1 cup enriched rice milk 300



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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2013, 15:42:22 pm »
Wow, that's a huge list!  Thanks for taking the time  :-*
Unfortunately DS doesn't eat any of that!  Oh ok there are a couple of things he does, figs, raisins, oranges.
He's only having about 4oz of milk, 150mg of calcium there
possibly/sometimes half an oz of cheddar, so 102mg
and if I add all his fruit up maybe another 100mg

He used to eat sweet potato and butternut squash, he really likes them but has now been refusing them for a few weeks I have no idea why so this calcium has also been cut out.

It's quite embarrassing to see such a big list of foods that DS doesn't/won't eat or used to eat but now won't.

If I add even a tiny bit of tahini to anything he spots it and refuses the entire batch.
He doesn't eat cereal so I can't add milk there.
I could add some milk powder to pancake mix though, that is good to know.

I understand about adding milk to eggy bread, but I purposely don't add it so that he gets a full slice of bread with a full egg because he eats so little protein too that I really need him to eat a full egg, not reduced down by milk iyswim.  Even then he rarely eats the full slice so it means half an egg.  if I can get one portion of protein in every day I give myself a pat on the back!  He's agreed to eat omelet occasionally so I get a full egg in him then but he refused the one I put cheese in :(

Looking at how much he gets and how much he should get makes me a bit more worried than I was before tbh  :-\

I will try flavouring the milk.  I do have some 'barley cup' I'll try it (hadn't thought of that).  Recently I tried redbush tea, he won't have one every day but has agreed to it a few times now, this gets maybe half an oz of milk in him once per fortnight or so (I give about 50ml total, a little hot water to make the tea then add full fat milk).
Evaporated milk looks like something worth trying too, double the calcium! And I think he would like the creaminess because he does like cream.  I'll try it with thickener to hopefully prevent refluxing.

And I found a recipe for custard so will be doing that too :)


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2013, 17:22:59 pm »
WOuld he eat cheese on toast or porridge?

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2013, 18:09:00 pm »
 You could sneak some molasses into oatmeal...does he eat oatmeal? DD only likes it when I mix in cinnamon and applesauce...would he go for that?  And celery...my dd only eats that with peanut butter on it! The calcium fortified orange juice is a good one too...!  Will he eat cereal dry as a snack on the go?  Some of those are fortified too. Honestly, all those little bits add up!  Take a close look at your bread...you can get 70-100mg per slice if you read labels and look for one that offers that. Then if he had a grilled cheese sandwich that would be alot!  Also....parmesean cheese sprinkled onto pasta, into soups...!

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2013, 18:57:46 pm »
It's quite embarrassing to see such a big list of foods that DS doesn't/won't eat or used to eat but now won't.
I have been there.  My DS was an extremely picky eater and still isn't the easiest, but has gotten much better now only that he's nearing age 3 (who knows if this will change again!). It is really hard so I totally sympathize.

Re the sweet potato and butternut squash - my DS has never eaten them on their own except as pureed baby food (closest we have come in recent times is mixing pureed sp or bs into his applesauce), but if he eats pancakes, could you try adding some puree to the batter or would he balk because of the flavor? That is what I do - he eats pancakes, waffles, and french toast (all gluten, dairy, and egg free), but when I make them I always add puree.  DS is fine with it, but I have always done it because he never eats any veggies so it's my only way of getting them in.  I have a great recipe for sweet potato pancakes (regular, not with dietary restrictions) if you are interested. 

Not sure if anyone mentioned this, but what about pizza? Will he eat pizza even though it has cheese on it? I know ordering it in isn't always the healthiest, but it's not terrible to make if you buy the dough pre- made or buy a pre-made pizza shell (thinking of Boboli here, not sure if they have that in the UK).
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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2013, 19:56:25 pm »
Hugs creations. Honestly if you saw how little Z eats ATM you would die! He has turned into the fussy king! I do think a lot of it is age, teething and developmental (ie control) so try not to worry.

I also love the idea of using evaporated milk more. I never thought it had so much calcium in it.

Another sneaky way Hun is to try making little homemade scones using cream in them. Good fats and calcium. I try to add veges to mine to ;) I like that they have no sugar, but Z thinks they are scrum my. Sometimes I sneak finely diced meat in, grated carrot, pumpkin etc. anything really.
I modified this recipe http://www.annabel-langbein.com/cooking/recipes/recipe/?id=396
« Last Edit: February 08, 2013, 19:58:49 pm by ZacsMumme »
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DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2013, 23:13:26 pm »
Thank you for all your replies and support xx

WOuld he eat cheese on toast or porridge?
Has accepted cheese on toast a couple of times but only way in the past.  Porridge, no chance.

You could sneak some molasses into oatmeal...does he eat oatmeal? DD only likes it when I mix in cinnamon and applesauce...would he go for that?  And celery...my dd only eats that with peanut butter on it! The calcium fortified orange juice is a good one too...!  Will he eat cereal dry as a snack on the go?  Some of those are fortified too. Honestly, all those little bits add up!  Take a close look at your bread...you can get 70-100mg per slice if you read labels and look for one that offers that. Then if he had a grilled cheese sandwich that would be alot!  Also....parmesean cheese sprinkled onto pasta, into soups...!
No he won't have oatmeal, or any cereal.  He won't eat anything that is mushy or liquidy (unless it is icecream which gives him extreme tummy pain, or cream which makes him reflux), he did eat baby muesli in a 'sloppy' form maybe twice when he was little but then refused and I always made it with a tiny amount of milk and rolled it into balls.  Won't eat celery.  Won't eat dried cereal.  I've never tried orange juice, never planned giving him any juice at all, just water and milk, maybe I need to try the juice.  Off to shop tomorrow so will look for juice and the bread (I buy the bakery bread which doesn't have ingredients listed and I doubt is fortified in any way, but I can change the bread).  It must be about a year since he accepted a grilled cheese sandwich or cheese on toast.  Even pizza he has one mouth full and leaves the rest.  He will have a max of half oz of cheese in cubes or grated on or with pasta, it's a tiny amount.  Won't eat soup, closest we get is about a tablespoon of it if I call it 'dip' and give him bread to dip in it :(

I know all the little bits must add up but it really seems to me that there aren't any little bits to add up.

I have a great recipe for sweet potato pancakes (regular, not with dietary restrictions) if you are interested. 
Yes please!
I do make pancakes and muffins, and he will accept some veg in them (sweet pot muffins he loves but it is a really small amount of sp and I couldn't give him more of them or he won't have any appetite for 'proper' meals.
We usually make pizza with flat bread and do our own toppings.  he doesn't eat more than a bite of the cheese though.
It's really weird because in my mind he LOVES cheese but when I really look at how much he is eating it's hardly any at all.  Tonight he ate one noodle at dinner time, said he was full.  After leaving him for a bit I asked if he wanted some cheese, he said yes, came to the table for it and ate a piece about 1cm cube then said he was full and played with the rest.

I never think of him as a fussy eater because he usually has a good appetite and a balanced diet even if his likes are somewhat limited.  But looking at all these suggestions of foods which I know he won't eat, well, makes me feel sad.  I cook every single day, I use almost no pre-packed foods (just things like dried pasta, canned beans and lentils in water, tom puree that sort of thing - and I now buy sausages and frozen fish fingers because he'll eat them), I usually cook 2 to 3 meals per day and make batches of home made snack foods too.  I put so much damn effort into feeding him well, but it's pointless :(

I know right now his appetite seems lower than usual, and he does appear to be teething on and off, we've had a couple of awful naps and nights but also some brilliant naps and nights, some days he is in lots of pain and I wouldn't expect him to have a normal appetite, but it's longer term than that.

Thanks for the recipe link Sara, I will definitely make some of those.  We did a cheese scone recipe together a couple of weeks ago, they've ended up in the freezer because he wasn't keen to eat them, but maybe he will when I try him on them again. And making scones with cream sounds much tastier than the ones we made!

I made a custard type pudding this evening after dinner (after he ate that 1 cm cube of cheese for dinner).  I made it very thick so it was like a firm pudding rather than a liquid custard as he won't have anything runny. It was truly disgusting when I tasted it but DS ate half the bowl I gave him at supper time which I'm guessing was equal to 50ml of milk, something at least.  I've another 3 tubs in the fridge.  I'll have to explore this sort of pudding a bit more and get some different recipes and make with cream or evaporated milk.

I try to keep in mind that even with a good appetite (scoffing down a pile of mange tout one day a pile of carrots the next kind of thing) he is a small boy, very small, and he is never going to eat the recommended guidance portions or daily intake for a toddler because he doesn't need it and just can't fit it in.  As a baby he took half the guidance milk, worried me so much, but he survived.  Even so, if we don't turn around pretty soon I'll have to make an appointment with the GP for calcium testing and maybe supplements because it's totally crazy that so many people can give me so many ideas for calcium rich foods and yet I know he won't have most of them.  the up-side of a supplement is that I can continue to offer reasonably normal meals.

Must remember to breath :)


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2013, 23:29:14 pm »
Yay the custard was a success.
It's so tough, Z barely eats after 4 and I've discovered that he eats best at breakfast, then snacks at 9,11/12 (usually things like a sandwich, banana, custard yogurt, a cracker etc) then his main meal at 4pm after his nap. I mentioned this to plunket and she said 'they just get tired at this age so don't eat well after 4-5' - I said but he gets tons of sleep YK....and she said 'its not about sleep forem, it's just they are rapidly growing, learning, working out how the world works that they just get tired by then period', it's not sleepy tired, it's probably more as we would say OS or worn out from the day in general.

I found this interesting and certainly seems the case with Z. :-\ our best meals are breakie and after nap, so well rested ;)

Also, she said a portion is the size of their fist. They don't need a lot, so if a toddler has 1 good meal to us, it's likely 50% of their daily needs in food. It's just balancing the food intake that's tough!

Does he still have formula at all Hun? - only reason Z has a BT bottle is to keep his iron intake up ::)
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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #16 on: February 08, 2013, 23:32:08 pm »
 Awww, (((hugs)))  I didn't mean to make you feel bad or worried.  I think that you're right, he's tiny, so he hasn't room for all this "stuff"....but there are some things that I see, some ways to get more calcium into him. I feel the same way about juice...dd didn't have any until she started preschool at 4...I hear you. She has it occasionally now, (organic, and it's pre-watered down too!) but 80% of her fluid still comes in the form of water., The other 20 is milk.  The calcium fortified orange juice is easy to find, and if you water it down, you might feel better about the sweetness of it....and it has alot of calcium!
 Get the powdered milk....you will find that you can put that in so many things I bet! Pancake mix, eggy bread mix, muffins.  Portion sizes for his age are so small, I still think you are likely doing better than you think you are!

 Yes, by all means....breathe....he's ok, and you are a great Mom!!! 

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2013, 00:14:45 am »
I didn't mean to make you feel bad or worried
No, you haven't made me worried, only I was already quite worried and now that I've looked more closely it has become clear I really do need to DO something, not just let it go. That's a good thing.  A few tears for me today is nothing compared to keeping him healthy and giving him a good start to life.  Sometimes tears and worry are good, they make us act.

I think I'm realistic about portion sizes, I have a list of portion sizes handy for checking on whenever I feel a bit concerned.  When I look at the list I know he really cannot eat that much, he just can't, so I am realistic about it.  3 portions of grains today rather than 6 for example.  I aim for 1 portion of protein per day (rather than 2) and hope for say 5 or 6 days out of 7.  Some days (today) he has zero veg, others he will have 2 servings or even lots more than that, so this is fine really, although there's veg he likes and veg he doesn't.  Maybe some of the veg that he does like has some calcium in it, I saw another list that mentioned peas which weren't on the list you posted, he likes peas and sometimes I give him a tablespoon of frozen peas for a snack instead of fruit or crackers etc.
I never knew calcium was even in vegetables until now.

He hasn't had formula for over a year.  Just full fat cows milk.
I'm getting that powdered milk for sure and I think I'll even add some to his morning milk so that whatever amount he drinks is double dose calcium!

We are currently having the evening meal at 5.30pm but meal times are always based around DS's needs and when he eats well.  The main meal used to be at 3.30pm (and lunch was around 10.30am!), that's how flexible I am.  I don't care what time I eat, I adapt to it.  But gradually it went later because his nap went later and he wasn't hungry enough for an earlier meal.  He is waking from his nap between 4 and 4.30 when he sleeps properly (3.30 when he wakes screaming with pain) and has no appetite when he wakes (might have a small portion of sultanas or a clementine after a while).  I have recently been considering shifting it a little earlier again, to 5.00pm because he's getting a little antsy waiting for dinner, but that's really recent.  I also give him a proper cooked lunch most days (even just a fast pasta with veg packed tom sauce and cheese) because at times he will have it, other times not a bite.  But the offer is there, yk, if that's when he has a bigger appetite.

If he had just continued to take his morning milk I wouldn't have worried.


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2013, 00:43:14 am »
Will he drink that morning milk throughout the day? 

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #19 on: February 09, 2013, 02:55:20 am »
Do you think he might be mpi  :-\?

I add green leafy veggies into homemade veg and tomato sauces-I whizz them up in the food processor so they are undetectable.

What does his daily diet look like? I wonder if we could help you to tweak it if we had more of an idea what he will actually eat.
Claire x



Offline Cat_ot

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #20 on: February 09, 2013, 08:10:00 am »
Hi
my son has CMP intolerence and is on soya, i saw dietician last wk as part of usual routine and had the same querie. DS normally has 150ml milk and 1 youghurt/custard during day and this was giving his calcium intake to 4.8, 5 is low and 8 was we were to aim for. she offered us a liquid calcium replacmeent but im going to look at his diet. but thought the sums may help you as basically if they had 300ml milk and 2 yoghurts/custard/rice pudding etc they would meet requirement.

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #21 on: February 09, 2013, 09:02:48 am »
if they had 300ml milk and 2 yoghurts/custard/rice pudding etc they would meet requirement
This seems a LOT to me... I don't know many child that eat so much milk/yogurt, and I don't think that DS eats so much in a day.
Barbara


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #22 on: February 09, 2013, 09:08:29 am »
I don't think mpi because he wasn't ill enough as a baby to suggest any intolerance.  He had silent reflux which at it's worst became spit ups (up to 3hrs after a feed) and then we got meds which he still takes.  They haven't been increased for a long long time as there doesn't appear to have been a need.
2ml ranitidine morning and 2ml evening.
carobel milk thickener in his morning milk as this is (was) the larger drink.
The evening sippy of milk is so small (a few sips) there is no need to thicken.
In the past we had occasions of vomiting water if he drank too much in one go, eg with a new straw cup or water bottle etc he would e so excited about the new cup he would drink lots for the fun of it then throw up.

We did BLW and he tried just about everything he was offered, a wide variety of things, only he rarely liked anything mushy or bitty or liquidy so no mash potato or rice for example and no cereal with milk like wheetabix or oats because it's mushy (although ate lots of humous which is mushy).  He ate very little in the way of meat or fish but at that young age he did try them.  He still tries them sometimes now but he mostly recognizes meat and fish and doesn't want it.
Because of a previous worry about protein I've made breakfast a protein meal because he is hungry then and it means I can relax about protein the rest of the day.  I got totally fed up of making home made meatballs and meat or bean burgers in the hopes of tempting him he only once ate meat balls and about twice home made meat burgers a very small amount.  he did eat bean fritters/pancake/burger type things but it was a bit random based on seasoning and flavours.

Morning WU milk was about 150-180ml, now about 50-100ml

Breakfast:
1 sausage (yes not great, but I buy the best quality I can)
or
1 egg omelet
or
eggy bread (half slice bread half an egg)
(all these he has 1-2 tsp of ketchup to dip)
about 1 day per week we have toast, fruit bread toast or pancakes instead
every now and then he has muesli balls (baby muesli mixed with a couple of spoons milk to make a v thick mix and roll into balls)
plus a piece of fruit, if he has had all his protein I let him have more fruit, if he hasn't had much of the breakfast I only give a little fruit because i don't want him to replace his meals with fruit which he would do!

snack: fruit or home made mini muffin or home made pancakes or shop bought cracker
muffins are often carrot or sweet pot with dried fruit like figs, sultanas or prunes.  Sometimes banana, sometimes with added ground oats, ground almonds, or desiccated coconut, I tend to make it up on the day and freeze batches.  he often makes muffins with me and eats a load of raw grated carrot or sweet pot.

lunch:
cheese sandwich
or
pasta with tom/veg sauce and cheese
or
baked beans and tortilla/bread
or
steamed veg and bread/tortilla
plus fruit

after nap snack:
small serving dried or fresh fruit
sometimes bits of veg whilst we cook (esp if he is cooking with me), raw carrot, raw pepper

dinner:
range of meals, some slight variation for example to separate veg into piles for him rather than mixed up, sometimes some additional veg element for DS if we are having something we know he isn't going to go for.  He is regularly offered food he doesn't like to familiarise him with it (eg broccoli, fresh fish, meat) and offered dip of ketchup or lemon juice, mayo, mint sauce things like that - he'll even have a water dip.  He will also be given an extra carbs element if we have something he doesn't like, he is still given the part he doesn't like, eg rice or couscous and he gets a piece of tortilla bread, garlic bread or flat bread.
Range of stuff really, stew and dumplings, pasta dishes, meat, fish, lentils, beans, oven baked home made chips (sweet pot, pot, turnip), steamed veg, etc.  I make white sauces with cream cheese, he will eat as much as will stick to the pasta so depends how many pieces of pasta he eats, or he uses as a dip for veg. Sometimes home made pizza, chinese stir fry and noodles...
He likes/will eat (but depends on his taste that day, sometimes will have none, sometimes stuffs himself with loads)
carrots
sweet pot
sweet corn and baby corn
peppers
courgette
aubergine
mange tout
sugar snap peas
peas
asparagus
green beans
mushrooms
onion
spring onion
tomatoes


and he is offered lots of others he won't eat
cauli
broccoli
cabbage, green and red
spring greens
bean sprouts
spinach
hmm...can't think of anything else right now, but you get the idea.  I usually don't worry about the veg but now I see that he is a bit limited esp in the area of providing calcium.

After dinner some fruit, I watch out for him replacing his meal with fruit though but always let him have a little even if it is a little later as I don't use it as a treat or reward.

Supper:
sippy milk, few sips, and if he didn't eat much dinner then maybe bread stick, toast, crumpet, mini muffin or some sugar free vegi cake or pancake or a cracker.  he is generally not hungry at this time now but used to have a bit of supper so I still offer, this is 1hr before BT.

The times I've made muffins with cheese or spinach in he tried a little then wouldn't eat any of that batch even after they were frozen and brought out another time.
Well, I don't know what you can do with all that info - so much to read - sorry!
I look at his daily food and don't see anything 'bad' or 'wrong' everything that goes in his mouth is healthy and yet his intake isn't balanced now that the milk has dropped down so little.

This morning he had about 50ml milk and one of those awful milk puddings I made yesterday - he wolfed it down, about 100ml worth of milk!  So it looks good but I need to see how it effects the rest of his day because if it means he won't eat proper breakfast now then I'll be back to the no protein problem.  We'll see, it looks promising.

[posted same time - sorry but if my LO had that much milk and yogurt, not that he can have yogurt and won't take that amount of milk, but if he did, there would be literally no space left in his body to eat veg, protein or grains, it would be back to a NB diet of milk.  I don't know if he even had that much dairy as a baby!]


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #23 on: February 09, 2013, 09:22:55 am »
my son has CMP intolerence and is on soya, i saw dietician last wk as part of usual routine and had the same querie. DS normally has 150ml milk and 1 youghurt/custard during day and this was giving his calcium intake to 4.8, 5 is low and 8 was we were to aim for.
Sorry I was in a rush and didn't mean to sound so off handed in my previous response to this.
It must be very worrying for you, I know it is for me.  It's quite scary to hear your LO was taking more than mine and yet still low on calcium :(

diet changes are certainly my first choice.  If I can turn this around myself I will, if not I'll go and get some supplements from the GP.


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #24 on: February 09, 2013, 10:06:23 am »
i wasnt trying to say your son had CMPI was just giving history of my son to position im at now. im no expert and dont claim to be and just saying what was advised by dietician who worked it all out. The 300ml and 2 yoghurt/custard etc would but put him over the max calcium intake as half that is 4.8 and it is 9.6 if they had all of that (5 is low, 8 is best) so prob wouldnt need quite that much. As long as they have inbetween thats all that matters, for me it was just a useful practical guide as i was told 1pt of milk daily or cheese/yoghurt etc but struggled how to work all of that out.

sorry was just trying to help/support and show that you're not only one 

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #25 on: February 09, 2013, 12:32:02 pm »
Creations, I am thinking that another thing that DS likes quite much (and me too!) where you can provide calcium containing vegetable like cabbage or broccoli, and dairy ingrediets, is the following: you pre-boil pieces of cabbage/broccoli (also fennel is very good) and then put them in a casserole with some milk in the bottom, then cover the vegetables with Emmental cheese and spread lots of grated Parmesan cheese on the top. Put everything in the oven so the cheese melt and the Parmesan makes a nice crust on the top. It's very good and a source of calcium!
Barbara


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #26 on: February 09, 2013, 12:46:46 pm »
If all else fails as it did for us for a while, asda sell calcium cows ( in the multi vits aisle). Understand if you dont wish to supplement this way but if diet alone doesn't work, none of us are perfect and these are a good backup. My MIL is a paed and she thought they were fine (I do have a milk and soy protein intolerant child who is also a fussy eater  so have been through similar dilemmas)
My boy is 4!

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #27 on: February 09, 2013, 15:03:57 pm »
i wasnt trying to say your son had CMPI was just giving history of my son to position im at now. im no expert and dont claim to be and just saying what was advised by dietician who worked it all out.
sorry was just trying to help/support and show that you're not only one
Please don't be sorry, your input is very much appreciated.  :-*
I came across wrong in my post because I was in such a rush (after typing such a long post!) which is why I tried to pop back to apologize for it sounding wrong.  I really do appreciate your input.  :-*

It IS helpful to know what the dietician's advice is, just as it is helpful to know the guidance daily intake of all aspects of diet, I just know my DS can't eat that much.  My GP/ped/HV all said when DS took half the daily guidance of milk that I can just give him cheese and yogurt without listening that he vomited yogurt and at under 1 yr of age I was cautious with the amount of cheese because of the salt levels.  Some cheese is fine under 1yr of course but over feeding him cheese could have cause other problems due to the salt.  What I found by experimentation was instead of increasing his solids dairy to try to get him to have more if I actually decreased his solids dairy he increased his intake of milk - so basically there is a level of dairy he will eat in whatever form and no more than that.  He never read the guidelines  ::)

cabbage/broccoli (also fennel is very good) and then put them in a casserole with some milk in the bottom, then cover the vegetables with Emmental cheese and spread lots of grated Parmesan cheese on the top. Put everything in the oven so the cheese melt and the Parmesan makes a nice crust on the top. It's very good and a source of calcium!
This sounds like heaven!  DP and I would shovel that in by the barrow load - unfortunately I know DS won't touch it with a barge pole.  but I'll make it and put some on his plate all the same :)  Thanks!

Understand if you dont wish to supplement this way
i don't mind supplementing if it's needed.  In some ways I think it would be preferable to giving him lots and lots of hidden or different meals from regular stuff.  What i mean is, with a supplement there is no worry so I can continue with regular meals and hopefully in time, age, tastes changing etc and seeing the same foods over and over and mummy and daddy eating them, he will gradually learn to like cabbage etc This gives him a more 'normal' route towards a regular balanced diet.  Making lots of different foods esp for him in a way sets him up for a poorer diet even if the special foods are super healthy it teaches that eating muffins all day for breakfast lunch dinner and snacks is 'normal' when it isn't.  I am exaggerating there to make my point but in truth he already thinks it's ok to eat 'cake' every day because he gets 100% healthy vegi zero added sugar muffins sometimes with cream cheese 'frosting' (no sugar), when as an adult I know full well it is not ok (for me) to eat cake every day.

Well the shopping is done.  Lots of evaporated milk, milk powder, emmental cheese and mozzerella because I saw they have higher calcium than chedder, and a 'milk roll bread'.  Is this the only fortified bread?  Is it only white that is fortified?  I couldn't see any other but was a little distracted by DS too.  I know he'll get bunged up if he has too much sliced white bread but it's nice for him to have it now and then.


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2013, 22:37:42 pm »
Oh the irony!  Today I made pancakes for breakfast using evaporated milk, milk powder and some ground almonds - a real calcium hit of a pancake recipe - but rather than eating between 10 - 15 of them (I think the max has been 18 before) he ate 5.  Just 5!  So I triple the calcium and he reduces his appetite by 2 thirds  ::)

The milk roll bread is going down well though.  He had a sandwich yesterday for supper and again today and loved it.  I have to look out for constipation though as last time I gave him white bread he got bunged up.

Tried him with a small drink of evaporated milk too.  He took a sip to try it but wouldn't have any more than that.

Tomorrow I'll try him with milk powder in the morning milk to boost it's power.


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #29 on: February 16, 2013, 14:54:31 pm »
This isn't really working.
I've been adding a couple of teaspoons of milk powder to the morning milk and a couple of days he took it, even drank a bit more than he had been doing (still a small amount overall though) but then refused breakfast.  Breakfast is at least an hour after wu milk so it shouldn't ruin his appetite but it seems the additional milk powder makes him too full.
Then a couple of days he took some but only about half and still not very hungry for breakfast.
Today he wouldn't even put his milk straw to his mouth  ::)

We saw the health visitor recently (for 2yr development review) and she said it would be better she referred us to a dietician rather than getting supplements over the counter or from the GP.  We both agreed I'd try the various foods for a couple of weeks first so I'm still plodding on but feels like a losing battle.  Anything I make high dairy he reduces how much he takes elsewhere.  :-[


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #30 on: February 16, 2013, 15:01:31 pm »
If he doesn't like cow's milk would he try another milk? If dairy triggers some reflux maybe he associates that with dairy now? Olly has oat milk that is fortified with calcium.

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #31 on: February 16, 2013, 20:34:30 pm »
Thanks.  I'll get that oat milk.  I don't think he associates milk with reflux because up to this recent dramatic drop he was taking enough (enough for him, which is still half the guidance but he is a small boy and U must take that into account).  I'm certainly still open to ideas and still trying things.

Used the evaporated milk to make pancakes today and also put grated sweet pot in, so they were good calcium pancakes.  He did eat a fair amount, but of course he refused his wu milk completely this morning which means the pancakes are almost the only thing he's had with calcium in today and I just can't see that they'd make up for missing his milk.
He used to eat dried figs, liked them so much I had to limit them, been totally refusing them this week.  it's like he knows where the calcium is and is just actively avoiding it!


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #32 on: February 16, 2013, 22:00:06 pm »
Maybe this is a little odd but... Couldn't this be a way of self-regulation? What I mean is that I notice with DS that (as usually all kids) he passes from periods in which he eats a lot to periods in which he eats much less. Moreover, he seems to really know what he needs: if for lunch he had prevalently carbohydrates, for dinner he will tend to eat more proteins, and vice versa. I don't know, but this could be a period for your ds in which his body needs less calcium intake and after a while he will start increasing the amount again (like it happens with food intake)... Try notto worry too much. If his body knows where he calcium is, it will know also how to regulate calcium intake.
Barbara


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #33 on: February 17, 2013, 13:39:55 pm »
Thank you Barbara.
It's not an odd suggestion at all and is one that is constantly in my mind even when I am worrying about the calcium.
He totally proved when he was a baby (after 6 months when he was taking solids) that he self regulated his dairy intake, the more solids dairy I gave the less milk he drank from his bottles.  Everyone (BWers, other mums, family, the health visitor etc) all said to give more dairy solids to make up for the lack of milk he would drink but it was a cycle of increasing one and him reducing the other.  Eventually I cut out just about all dairy solids to see what happened and he started drinking milk again.
He is just like your LO in the sense of balancing his food groups, large carbs meal here, pure protein meal there, then only veg and not touch anything else, on the whole it balances very well (and I remember reading about BLW that LOs know what they need).  I do want to have faith and trust his body knows what it needs but there's a little part of me that says he can be fooled by his tastes rather than following his needs - in that he would eat nothing but fruit all day long if I allowed it and I know I must limit his fruit portions to ensure he will eat the other food groups.  Of course reading about the problems caused by low calcium and how important it is to remedy the situation as early as possible, that adds to the worry!
I'm tempted to get the referral to the dietician just so we can get a blood test to see his calcium levels, then I could rest assured that he really is self regulating.


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #34 on: February 17, 2013, 18:30:35 pm »
FYI - when we saw the dietician she asked us to complete a 3 day diary of what Olly ate and drank. She then worked out roughly how much he was getting of the food groups and the nutrients. Olly never had a blood test and he doesn't have ANY dairy. He was given a supplement of calcium.

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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #35 on: February 17, 2013, 23:23:36 pm »
I have the impression that the taste becomes more and more important while growing up, so ds eats more what he likes now and self regulates less that when he was 1 or 2 yo. But still, now he spends periods of eating less and periods in which he eats loads (like now...). And still, when he is given something he likes like chocolate or chips (especially from ILs that give him all sort of junk food...there's no way I can explain them that it is ok, for me, to give him a little chocolate but it is not ok to give him chocolate AND chips AND cookies, all in the same day...) he eats some of them and then he stops, like he has enough.
You have ot do what you feel, but probably a dietician could estimate, from what he eats, if the amount of calcium is enough or not, as pp said. I think the amount needed depends also from the vit D, which is built by our body in response to light and sun, so spending days outside, when the weather is good, helps calcium utilization. And during the summer we have more vit D than in the winter.
Barbara


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Re: bit concerend about calcium intake
« Reply #36 on: February 18, 2013, 08:11:53 am »
Fortunately I don't have any one feeding him any chocolate or anything like that.  He's had the odd biscuit at birthday parties but it's so rare it's isn't worth counting.
He does already have a vit drop daily which has A C and D.  So even with cold wet winter days he has some vit D to help make the most of what calcium he does take.