Author Topic: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me  (Read 3323 times)

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Offline Clemmly

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #15 on: February 17, 2013, 00:19:36 am »
Hi I just wanted to offer my support and let you know that I'm following you every step of the way. I can't get a long pm nap either. I think your doing slightly better than us, last night out of exhaustion and desperation I slept in the cot with lo- not a good look or comfortable!


Offline mananieto

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #16 on: February 18, 2013, 12:43:20 pm »
Hi thanks for your reply!!

There is no PM nap. For two days he wouldnt take a nap. The first night it was hell and we ended up bronging him to bed. The second night of no naps he slept from 7pm - 12 and then from 12.15 - 7am so almost STTN. Was this because he was so tired that he slep so well?? I just dont get it.  The next day he was totally sleepy. He rubbed his eyes all day and just seemed like he needed a nap the whole day. It seems to me the better he sleeps the more he needs sleep, is this normal?

Im having lots of trouble putting him down. At nap time for his AM nap he usually falls asleep as soon as he hits the crib (like he had no sleep at all, even when his nights got better). For his PM nap as soon as he hits the crib he laughs and starts to play. I have left him to himself and this can go on for an hour or more. Him just standing and playing in his crib. On the other hand if I lay him with me in bed he we will fall asleep. He tries to play but he soon gets it that its time for nap. Is it better to bring him to bed so that he naps or just let him skip it.

For the night... We do wind down and he is totally ready for bed. As soon as I put him down. He starts crying and doesnt want me to leave. This can take up to an hour or more. He ha stopped being an independent sleeper in that he need me to be by his side to relax and fall asleep. I have tried gradual weaning for the last week and its just not working. Im thinking of giving wiwo a try. Is he too young for this ? He is now 11 months...

Thanks!!

Offline mananieto

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #17 on: February 19, 2013, 21:01:48 pm »
Hi Clemmy!!! Thanks for your support!! I hope you are doing better with your LOs sleep. I try no to bring my DS in bed with us, but some nights its just so hard not to give in. I have also thought about getting in bed with him, the only problem is I don't think Ill fit in.

I just read my previous post and realized it made no sense. (Probably because it was written at 3 a.m in desperation!!)

Anyway, we are doing everything we can to get him to take his two naps. Strange as it is, for the last two days he refused his PM nap, and with just a 1.5 AM nap he slept from 7-10 then 10-12 then 12-7 (which I know 3 NW are still too much) but after what we've been through it seems like he slept for 20 hours!!!

He still wants us by his side at BT and to get back to sleep while his NW are happening. So I am planning on starting some WIWO with him. He was an independent sleeper from 5-9 months so I believe we can get it back!!! 

Its hard. Specially when you know so many people that are doing Controlled Crying and its working for them in just 2 or 3 days. Or when I tell people that Peter is still not STTN and they open their eyes WIDE and tell me its time for him to be trained, like its my fault.

Anyway, just wanted to let you know Im here if you want to talk!!!

Offline Erin M

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2013, 13:38:37 pm »
Hi hun, he really might be pushing towards one nap now -- I found with my dd1 that we got to that same point where she just wouldn't take a second nap no matter what, so I ended up just pushing the first one out as far as I could and doing an early bed time on those days.  You might also find that he'll go back and forth -- some days you'll have 2 and some days you'll have 1 until you're firmly on 1 nap.  What's your A time in the morning looking like now? 

Offline mananieto

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #19 on: February 21, 2013, 17:22:22 pm »
Hi thanks so much for your reply!! I'm thinking that's also his case.

At the moment I'm having trouble with everything related to sleep. Its impossible to put him down to sleep. If I put him down during the day he will just stare at me. As soon as I leave the room I can hear him rolling over and playing. If I wait long enough the laughter will turn into tears. I wait until he really needs me and come in. He stops crying. I lay him down and all this starts again. Today we did this for 3 hours. At the end I was in tears. Its exhausting. I was so mad at him. I hate feeling this way. I hate to have any sort of negative feeling towards him. I don't know whats wrong.

Is this the way he refuses his naps? This happened after an 4A. He was clearly tired. But he just wont go to sleep. The most I got was a  little eye closing when I rubbed his lovey to his face.

You would think he was UT when I put him down, but the thing is this happened at 3 a.m last night also. He slept from 7-3 a.m and then woke up and  started crying. I came in and he just stared at me. Totally awake. And then we did the stare, leave, cry, come in, stare dance for 2 hours!!! Until he finally lost it, I took him out to calm him and he finally fell asleep.

I have tried staying by his side. But he just stares at me or gets up. So I am forced to leave.

I'm at a total loss.

I hate being so down and negative. But I have to say this forum is so important to me. I'm not someone who shows her feelings when she's down. And for the past weeks this forum for me has been the place where I can finally let my guard down. So thanks for that.

Offline Erin M

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2013, 18:59:09 pm »
(((hugs)))) sweetie, I have definitely been where you are, that awful feeling of frustration and helplessness.  I would try some more A time before your nap and see where it gets you.  The tiredness could be because he's used to sleeping at that time, the tiredness could also be because of the NWings.  I think that you also might be in the midst of something developmental -- sometimes those milestones can make things pretty crazy for a bit. 

What did your day end up looking like yesterday? 

Offline mananieto

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2013, 20:06:19 pm »
Hi Thank you so much for your support

Here are our last 3 Days...

7W
10.30 S
11.30 W
3.00 S
4 W
7.30 S (NW 12, 4.30)

8W
2.30 S
3.40W
7.30 S (NW at 3 until 5)

7W
1.30 S
2.10 W (He woke up crying which is how I can tell he was OT. Tried settling in crib but it just wouldnt work. I brought him to bed. He is now sleeping next to me as I write this. I have never done this before but I think its better for him to get a good nap)

Its just as if he forgot how to fall asleep. Like he doesnt know what he is doing in his crib!!!  Thats what I felel like when he is staring at me; Like, Ok woman now what? How could he just forget?

If this is development I really really hope it ends soon...

Anyway... Thanks for your help and your kind words!!

Offline Erin M

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2013, 01:23:08 am »
I brought him to bed. He is now sleeping next to me as I write this. I have never done this before but I think its better for him to get a good nap
I think you did exactly the right thing here, he does need to catch up on sleep. 

It looks like you're getting shorter naps on 3.5 hours which would indicate the need for more A time -- but then when you did 4 hours he wouldn't go to sleep forever, which made it seem like that was also not enough.  But there's no way that 3-5 NWing could be an undertired one with as little sleep as he got during the day.  (Sorry, thinking out loud here.)  It feels developmental to me -- I don't know what else would explain a NWing that long that couldn't be from being UT. 

If you get a halfway decent night, I might try A time of about 4 tomorrow again (maybe 4.15?) and see what happens.  I'm going to ask some other folks what they think about the long NWing and see what they think. 

Offline mananieto

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2013, 08:09:03 am »
Hi!! I also think is developmental. He's been acting out on me during the day. He is clingy and fusses a lot. I took him to the Drs Yesterday to have him checked out because its so unlike him. He said he is fine physically, which of course was great news. He said it was developmental and that he was testing my boundaries. At first I thought Wonder Week. But this leap has been over for a week now. So I don't know but I cant seem to find any other answer.

Since the Dr gave me the Ok on him being well. I have strated tonight with WIWO.  I did a little reading in the forums about it. I was doing a kind of tweaked version of it and it was just not working. Tonight I have started the following.

1.Put him down for the night.
2.WO. (Evaluate crying. If its I need you cry, count to 10)
3. WI (I use Shh to soothe him, lay him down, calm him for a few seconds)
4. WO (Repeat)

Does this sound right o you?

Also for naps do I keep this up even if he is just playing?

Thanks!!!


Offline Erin M

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2013, 18:06:20 pm »
Your WI/WO sounds right.  For the naps, if he's just playing, leave him to it -- but track it so you can use it adjust your A time.

I did some asking around, and those long NWings seem to come from UT, but also from development (some of those jumps can take awhile, could just be that your in the midst of a big one), teeth, or even OT sometimes.  Wondering if that giant long one you got the other night was just some overtiredness from your day?  I would probably do whatever you can to get some decent sleep in him during the day because it will help your nights. 

Offline mananieto

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2013, 18:03:50 pm »
I'm back with and Update!! First of all thank you for all your support and advice...

I hope I don't jinx myself here, but here is what is going on lately...

I started WIWO as I wrote before... I figured that I had to solve his Prop issues first and then tackle the NW. His Prop was basically  me staying in the room so that he could fall asleep. It was terrible.  He would close his eyes and fall asleep, but as soon as I moved and inch (I'm not kidding) he would scream and search for me. He was an independent sleeper from 4 to 8 months (before SA hit us hard) so I figured I had a good chance of getting it back.

I wrote in my last post the method I used...

I would like to explain in a little more detail in case it helps someone else...


First of all to do WIWO you have to be determined to do it, even if it gets rough. You CAN NOT give in and do a half prop (for me that was sometimes staying in the room and Shhsing), or just stop after and hour. That would have been a waist of time and tears... But be certain if your LO was and independent sleeper before it will work and it will change your life.

So I went on like this.

First night
1. Routine, lay in crib, say good night and sleepy words for about 2 minutes. Leave the room (Expect immediate tears).

2. Count to ten walk in, lay down in crib, sushh, leave.

You have to leave fast. Don't linger. What I learned (and I was mistaken about this) is that you are teaching to self soothe, not to fall asleep. Theres a difference and once I understood that It became clearer to me that what I was doing was rigth. The idea is not for him to fall asleep in the process and while he cries (although he will  fall asleep during WIWO), but to be able to soothe himself while you are not in the room with him...

3. After you leave expect crying. Count to ten again and come back in, lay down, sushh and leave.

I had to do this for 2.30 hours the first night. I think I came in more than 200 times. My back was killing me, I started to bend by the knees cause I just couldn't take it anymore. At some point he just got it that I would be coming back and leaving and his crying started to change. This is important. If at some point he seems to stop crying (even if its just for a second), then stop counting and start over. Only come in when he is crying. My DS has this manta cry where he babbles angrily and sounds like an old man. Sometimes he stops, some times it escalates into crying and this is when I count and come in.

4. At the end, I came in layed him down, and he closed his eyes and I left.

5. He woke up that night at 10, 1, 4. I did Exactly the same process each time. I went over it with DH so that we were both doing the same thing each time. He took the 10 and 4 shift.

At the NW I started the WIWO straight away (no night night or sleepy words). So I just counted to 10 went in and layed down.

6. The next day for naps I did the same. It took me and hour.

7. At night (2NW night) I did it for 45 minutes. He woke at 10 (2 WIWO) and then at 1 (2 WIWO)

8. For naps the next day. I layed him down say the sleepy words 2 Min's. Left. Silence.

9. For the night. Sleepy words. Leave silence.

He has STTN ever since. I can not believe it. If you read this whole thread you wont believe also!! I keep waiting for it all to go wrong. But it seems to be working. I know if anything goes wrong I will do WIWO again. I will never let myself get caught up in props again.

At night sometimes he cries for 5 seconds or more. I wait. And then silence. You can not imagine how much life has changed. He is also more rested during the day, and therefore happier.

I just wanted to say thank you again.

I am certainly no expert. This is just what worked for me. So if you find something wrong with what I did, please post so that others don't make the same mistake. I hope this helps another parent lookinf for answers.

Cheers!!!






Offline Erin M

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Re: 10 month old NW are taking a toll on me
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2013, 18:37:55 pm »
Woohoo!  Nice work!  You did great, you figured out what he needed -- and it sounds like he was able to figure out that if he needed you, you would come back to be there.  :)