Expressing and struggling

[Sharlandie]

My lovely DD will be 6wks old tmrw.  I desperately wanted to breastfeeding before she was born to try to give her the best start in life and to help with her immunity and to try to stop her from having my allergies.  But so far not so good.
At first her latch was terrible and unbearably painful and she lost too much weight so ended up back in hospital with top-ups.  When we try to BF i dont think she gets much milk as she takes a full size top up even though i seem to have plenty of milk but other times she just screams at my boob and wont latch on at all.  So nearly all of her feeds are BEM from a bottle. 
I just don't think she's able to breast feed it's always seemed like it's too hard for her she gets too tired.  Even with a bottle she takes up to an hr to take her milk.  The health visitors are encouraging me to get back to BF but I don't think DD can do it and in the meantime I'm shattered and struggling to express.  I seem to spend most of my day washing bottles and pump sets and running out of time btwn feeds to be ready for the next.  It's only a matter of time before she needs more milk than I can express....
My DH and parents think we should swap to formula so that I don't wear myself into the ground but I feel that I'd be letting DD down, but I can't keep expressing for ever...

[weaver]

That's a very tough situation for you.  Hang on in there, you're trying very hard to help your LO.  It is a learning process for you both. 

By any chance was LO a forceps delivery? We had feeding problems with LO1 after forceps.  My LO1 needed a visit to a cranio-sacral osteopath to help him, it released the tension in his jaw, which was very sore, and then he started feeding pretty well.

There are a lot of people on here with real experience and wisdom to share and I'm sure they'll be here for you soon. I'm just wondering if you've seen a lactation consultant, it would be good for someone in real life to see you and baba together.

You could also phone these people.
http://www.breastfeedingnetwork.org.uk/breastfeeding-helplines.html
Breastfeeding network supporter line is 0300 100 0210
National breastfeeding helpline is 0300 100 0212

Big hugs. 

[PaulsMom]

Hugs Hun.  I agree with pp, please go see a reputable LC.  Some bubs must be taught how to latch properly and this may take a bit of time.

Wrt using formula, I did this with my DS as my milk didn't come in properly.  I was bf him, topping him up, them pumping to build my supply after each feed then washing bottles and pump items.  I was exhausted in the first six weeks so I've btdt.  It may not be something you want to hear, but you could offer one bottle of formula to give yourself a break.  Perhaps DH could do a night feed for you?  I found that its harder to express when I'm stressed and tired.  So the stress factor may be affecting your ability to express. 

[Erin M]

Has she been checked for tongue tie sweetie?  I know that can affect things like milk transfer and latching.  I would definitely go see a lactation consultant and have her checked for it and have your latch checked as well.  ((hugs))

[Fiver]

If you're in the UK, either of those helpline numbers given above will get you through to a trained breast feeding counsellor.  If you call from a non-withheld landline number, you should be routed to someone vaguely local to you as well and they may be willing to come out to see you at home or be able to point you in the direction of a local BF support group.

I would second getting a check done for a tongue and/or lip tie as well, especially if she's struggled to latch from the start and it's sore for you when she feeds.

As for the washing of pump sets, you can get away with putting them in the fridge between feeds (just remembering to warm any bits that are going to be touching your skin before using again) and then washing well once per day.  It might save you a tiny bit of time until you get this all sorted out.

[Sharlandie]

Thank you so much for your advice. 
If I use nipple shields that helps us to get around her poor latch - she hardly ever seems to offer up a wide enough mouth.  Other times she seems to latch but comes off crying and frustrated almost straight away.
She BF for a bit today but she gets really hungry again v soon.  Is it possible that she just can't or won't work and enough for get the milk?
I'm going to a BF support group every week and had help from breastfeeding support workers I'm not sure they thought DD would ever get the hang of it but I'm not sure if they're not allowed to recommend / discuss non BF options or whether they didn't have the heart to tell me.

We've been able to rule out tongue tie. 
Xx

[Fiver]

I'm glad you're going to a group, but a good BF counsellor (as opposed to a mother supporter/peer supporter) or lactation consultant will work with you to find a solution rather than thinking LO won't ever get the hang of it and will try to come to a proper conclusion about what is happening, why and how to fix it.

Did they get a full history from you including pregnancy and labour?  How was a tongue tie ruled out?  Did they check for a lip tie?

[weaver]

she hardly ever seems to offer up a wide enough mouth.

That rings alarm bells for me: sounds like maybe it's painful to open her mouth wide enough to feed.  This was the problem with my LO1.  If you're at all open to the idea, perhaps consider visiting a specialist cranio-sacral osteopath, one with baby experience.  It really helped us.

As Amanda (Fiver) says, there's a world of difference between a trained lactation consultant and a bfing support group.  The group is just there to encourage you and offer emotional support.  That's very important.  But the consultant can analyse problems and help you to fix them.  I think with the situation you have described, you need specialist help.  You've done really well to get as far as you have. 

[cnaz]

Oh, I so wish I was there to help you! Breastfeeding can be great, but it is hard work too! I am glad to hear that you are seeing a BF counselling. There could be a few things happening here. She still hasn't learnt how to breastfeed yet, but the good news is she can still learn I have worked as a public health nurse, and took a 4 month breastfeeding course towards being an LC, and the one thing I remember the most from this course was that skin to skin is sooooo very important. I am not sure of what your home situation is (other kids, work, etc) but if you can keep her skin to skin as much as possible this can greatly help breastfeeding. This means strip her down to her diaper, and you wear a shirt that can be wrapped around both of you. So her bare chest is against your bare chest. This helps babies to stay calm, it helps your breasts to produce milk, and can make her being this close to you a safe, peaceful place for her to be again, especially if she is having frustrations with breastfeeding. If she starts to root around, then slowly help her down towards your breast to see if she will latch on. I know...easier said then done!

If you have had pain while breastfeeding, then there is a latch issue. This too can be corrected It just takes some work, and it sounds like you are definetly trying hard! Check out this website. There are videos on here that will help to show how to latch baby, etc. It is from Dr. Jack Newman http://www.breastfeedinginc.ca/ (He is the biggest breastfeeding guru ever, and the LC's here all follow his advice - I am from Canada). Go to online resources, and there are videos and information. He is great! If at any time your LO starts to get worked up while trying to latch, pick her up and put her again skin to skin to calm her before trying again.

How big is her mouth? Does she seem to have a small mouth? Sometimes fit can be an issue also. I experienced this with my 3rd DD. She had such an itty bitty mouth that she never opened up wide enough either. She was essentially nipple feeding, instead of breastfeeding. This results in a sore mom, and poor milk transfer because she is not compressing the breast in the right spot! I was very sore for about two months until she grew big enough to fit me! Once she grew, the pain subsided and breastfeeding became easier.

She sounds like she may get a little bit frustrated at the breast because she is used to having milk from a bottle which generally comes out easier. She has to work harder at the breast. One thing you can do to help with this is pump a few minutes before she feeds, to illicit your letdown. This way when she starts to suck milk will already be flowing, satisfying her quicker, and helping her to realize that this is also where she gets milk

Don't be too hard on yourself! Breastfeeding is hard work, and you are doing what you can When you are stressed, even if it is just while trying to get her to feed, your letdown will be slower, and it can affect milk supply. Keep seeing the BF counsellor. Even if you have to go there everytime. The more help you have, the easier it will get.

Try different positions with her. She may be more willing to try the breast from a different position. Also, don't wait until she is really hungry. If you see her starting to rouse from her sleep, pick her up and try to breastfeed her while she is still a little sleepy. They are more relaxed then, and not too hungry so she won't get frustrated as quickly. Look for her subtle cues that she is hungry. Starting to smack her lips, sucking on her hand, if she bobs her head around when you are holding her. Often we miss our babes subtle cues that they are hungry, and don't go to feed them until they start to squawk. By then they are already getting frustrated. Again, keeping her skin to skin will help with this. There are slings that you can by to help keep her to you and free up your hands so that you can still get some other things done. Especially if you have other children.

Don't go to much by what you see in the pump for milk supply. Babies are so much more efficient at draining the breast and what you see in the pump is not a good indicator of what you are actually producing. If you are however concerned about your milk supply, there are safe herbal pills you can take to increase milk supply. They are fenugreek, and blessed thistle. There is also information on Dr. Newmans website about these herbs.

Lastly, and this may sound a bit absurd, but.....get into a warm bath, and take her in there with you! Again put her on your chest. I know it sounds crazy but, many babies have latched on for the first time properly (after weeks of trying) in the tub. I don't know if it is that mom is more relaxed and that baby is more relaxed but it has worked, and is worth the try

Best of luck to you I am here if you need any more info, or have any other questions. If I don't know I have a big book on breastfeeding and can look it up for you

[eva026]

Couldn't read this and not drop off hugs:)
You are doing so well to have gotten this far!

Keeping pump parts in the fridge is a major time saver as Amanda mentioned.
If it makes you feel better, I BFd for almost a year using nipple shields so it can be done that way too.

She sounds like she may get a little bit frustrated at the breast because she is used to having milk from a bottle which generally comes out easier. She has to work harder at the breast. One thing you can do to help with this is pump a few minutes before she feeds, to illicit your letdown. This way when she starts to suck milk will already be flowing, satisfying her quicker, and helping her to realize that this is also where she gets milk

^^^ this, it was one of the things that helped us.

Co-sleeping also helped so I could let her use me as a dummy a bit to stimulate milk production.

Holding thumbs for you!