5 mo NWs out of control!

[katie80]

I'm sorry. I feel like I'm posting to myself! Ah!

No, I'm the one who's sorry.  I haven't gotten on as much as usual the last couple days and hadn't realized you posted a couple times, so am just getting to this.  I hope you haven't felt left in the dark.  

Ok, let's see what we can figure out here.  From the EAS on Mar 4 and some previous ones, I think it looks like he does best with about 2.5hr A, so I'd try to stick with that for whatever WU you get.  Even if he's had a rough night, try to get as close to that as you can, maybe putting him down 15-20min earlier, if needed.  I'm guessing what happened this morning is that he was tired, but not tired enough to sleep well for a nap, ended up missing his window and then got OT.  It's fine to let him sleep later in the morning after a rough night, but just stick close to the A that works for him. 

I think he's probably getting close to the 3-2 nap transition and that could be part of the NW/EW madness.  You still need the CN as of now, but it might be starting to mess with BT a bit and either causing OT (by pushing it too late) or UT because of not enough A time in the day.  Have a read through this and tell me what you think: All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

Everyone keeps saying to let him cry but I am just not interested in doing that.

You do not need to let him cry.  It won't solve anything for you and will only make him feel abandoned.   I think that's everyone's catch all comment, because they don't really have any other advice to give, but it really isn't the way to go.  I do think you need to be a bit more vigilant in resettling him and not stopping to feed.  Make the choice of whether you will feed or not before you go to him.  If it's been 3.5hr and you don't think you will have it in you to resettle if you pass the 4hr mark, then feed.  If it's only been 2-3hr, resettle until he's asleep.  You might have to steel yourself for a few difficult nights, but I think it will help. 

He's having some really long NWs, though. Those can be attributed to discomfort sometimes.  Does it seem like he's teething or anything else is causing him discomfort?

I also think his cough like cry is his mantra cry so I've been seeing how he does without me intervening. Many times he will start the cry and stop on his own but it doesn't get him to sleep.

What does he end up doing?  Just laying there with the stop-start crying or does he end up getting upset and full-on crying?

(((Hugs))), hon.  I know it's tough, but hang in there.  Remember, it's ok to take him out in the stroller or AP a car nap if you just need a break!

[bestsmilee]

No no, I don't blame you, katie80! I know we can't always be on the boards but I was wondering if there was anyone roaming the pages that may have wanted to stop in and help me as I was going mad. You're all I've got! This forum has been good to me in giving me advice and encouragement. I don't know where I'd be without it!

I think it looks like he does best with about 2.5hr A, so I'd try to stick with that for whatever WU you get.

What do I do if he wakes up at 4:30? (This is not an EW though, its part of his N) Wait until 7 to put him to bed? That's when we'd like his normal WU to be. Or should we start counting from 7 and wait until 9:30? When we do that, just getting to 9am alone is a battle. Today he WU at 5:50 but I fed him immediately and he slept until 7:20.

I think he's probably getting close to the 3-2 nap transition and that could be part of the NW/EW madness.  You still need the CN as of now, but it might be starting to mess with BT a bit and either causing OT (by pushing it too late) or UT because of not enough A time in the day.  Have a read through this and tell me what you think: All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

If he is ready for the 3/2 transition, it would certainly help my sanity a bit by not having to anticipate putting him down for a 3rd nap a day. However he doesn't exhibit some of the signs. He certainly does not wake happy and hasn't really been fighting BT. He has always resisted the CN and has been EW for quite some time now.

If he wasn't so OT all the time, I would be interested in seeing how long his A time can go (the article says close to 3 hours). He does 3+ hours in the afternoon because we don't always get a CN but it's clear he's tired but becomes too late to put him down for a nap. For months now he gets really cranky and I have to hold him and not just hold him, I need to walk around with him. Lately though that hasn't been calming his fussiness so I just feed him earlier, do bath time, and try to get him to bed (strangely though, sometimes after his bath he seems hyper and happy and sometimes this will lead him to fall asleep later). So right now I have no idea what his true A time capability is because he can't seem to make it very long without being cranky after his first WU.

[I do think you need to be a bit more vigilant in resettling him and not stopping to feed.

I have been a bit more vigilant in the past but its hard because I'm so exhausted. He has gone nights with 1 feed and then went back to bed. After he has been awake upset for hours it seems like the only solution. I'll try to be more vigilant tonight.

He's having some really long NWs, though. Those can be attributed to discomfort sometimes.  Does it seem like he's teething or anything else is causing him discomfort?

I keep checking but I see no signs of teeth. I don't know what else could be bothering him besides a wet diaper? The NW from last night though I was able to get him to sleep for a bit in between. I also had found him on his tummy face down a bit - I wonder if this made him super upset?

[katie80]

What do I do if he wakes up at 4:30? (This is not an EW though, its part of his N) Wait until 7 to put him to bed? That's when we'd like his normal WU to be. Or should we start counting from 7 and wait until 9:30? When we do that, just getting to 9am alone is a battle. Today he WU at 5:50 but I fed him immediately and he slept until 7:20.

Yeah, I wouldn't get him up and start the day at 4:30am, I'd try to resettle anything before 6am.  It's always a bit tougher though, the closer you get to 6/7am.  If it was me, I'd try feeding right away at the EW and see if you can't get him back to sleep for a good week or two, so you can work on a decent EASY and hopefully wipe out some OT.  But, if he does wake around 5:30ish and you start the day, I'd try just going with a normal EASY (starting at 5:30, not pushing him so far to that first nap time) and see if you can't get him caught up a bit and then start pushing the day back out again. 

If he is ready for the 3/2 transition, it would certainly help my sanity a bit by not having to anticipate putting him down for a 3rd nap a day. However he doesn't exhibit some of the signs. He certainly does not wake happy and hasn't really been fighting BT. He has always resisted the CN and has been EW for quite some time now.

You can always do the CN in the stroller or a car ride to do an errand or something if it's a constant battle.  He is OT, so it's hard to make the switch, and you're right I don't think he's quite there yet, but I think he's getting close and if we can get rid of the EW, he'll be even closer.  As for being hyper after the bath, that could be some of the OT showing, or it could be his personality.  It might be worth it to try bath at a different time of day for a while and see if that helps.

I don't know what else could be bothering him besides a wet diaper? The NW from last night though I was able to get him to sleep for a bit in between. I also had found him on his tummy face down a bit - I wonder if this made him super upset?

Do you use an overnight diaper or one a size bigger? That has helped my kids a lot with soaking diapers.  It could be because he's more mobile and rolling and on his tummy.  He's unswaddled right?  If you go in and find him on his tummy, I'd resettle him like that with shh/pat, so he gets used to sleeping that way.  As for other discomfort, do you think you see any signs of reflux/food intolerances? Reflux 101 - General reflux information, Does my LO have food intolerances?

[bestsmilee]

Ok so he went to bed last night at around 6:40.
NW 1: 9pm
DF: 10pm
NW 2: 1:00 fed him, thinking in a state of exhaustion that it had been 4 hours since his last feed. Fail. It had only been 3.
NW 3: 3:30, able to settle back to sleep
NW 4: 4:30- well, didn't go back to sleep, fed him at 5:45 hoping he would like the previous night, but no go
E 7....
A
S 8:50 - 10:10

I have a very cranky baby on my hands and it doesn't seem like I'm any closer to getting out of this OT cycle!!
Like for example today when he woke at 4:30 it had been 3.5 hr since his last feeding so I didn't feed him and waited and waited and then it became 5:45 and it was nearing 5 hours since he last ate so I caved in again.

As for napping in the stroller. Well he never used to until about 2 weeks ago. It was a shocker really. But I've been walking 3 miles with him in the afternoon and he only sleeps around 15 minutes!

I haven't been resettling him lately if I find him on his tummy because that's clearly the way he likes to sleep. Whenever I've moved him in the past it wakes him up and he can't go back to sleep! His pediatrician said if he can roll both ways though he can sleep on his belly, but sometimes when his face is practically in the sheets it freaks me out.

Maybe I'll get an overnight diaper because the past few nights he has been waking up soaking in his diaper (cloth and disposable!)

[katie80]

Like for example today when he woke at 4:30 it had been 3.5 hr since his last feeding so I didn't feed him and waited and waited and then it became 5:45 and it was nearing 5 hours since he last ate so I caved in again.

I would've just fed.  It's close enough to 4hr and you just don't want him to be awake for the day at that time.  It'll be easier to wean NFs if he's properly rested and not so OT. 

I haven't been resettling him lately if I find him on his tummy because that's clearly the way he likes to sleep. Whenever I've moved him in the past it wakes him up and he can't go back to sleep! His pediatrician said if he can roll both ways though he can sleep on his belly, but sometimes when his face is practically in the sheets it freaks me out.

Totally understandable, but if he's rolling that way anyway, he needs to know how to fall back to sleep there.  Both my kids started sleeping on their tummies at 4-5.5mo.  Your ped is right, but you need to do what you're comfortable with.

(((Hugs))) sweetie, I know you're exhausted and understandably frustrated. 

[bestsmilee]

Ok so this is what happened last night:

EBT 6:30, fell asleep pretty quickly after crying hysterically starting from his bath which he is usually very content in, so it was bizarre that he fell asleep and stayed asleep.
NW 1: 9pm
DF: 10pm (although is it still considered a DF if he wakes up in the process?)
NW2: 11:50
NW3: 2:20 (fed him immediately but then when I put him down he was still awake and eventually started crying around 3, fell asleep by 3:30)
NW4: 5:45 (wanted to see if he would settle but he wouldn't so fed him around 6:10 and then he wouldn't fall back to sleep, so got up with him for the day)
S only 8:30-9 (strangely he woke up happier than he had looked in the past 2 weeks and was smiling and rolling around then 5 minutes later he started crying again.)

I thought I was at a better chance of beating his OT cycle today because of the successful EBT but now I'm not so sure. Should I keep at the EBT until he does? It doesn't seem to affect any of his NWs but it does give him those 45 min-1 hr of extra sleep.

We also could not find any overnight diapers in his size! Do they not exist in size 2?

[katie80]

I thought I was at a better chance of beating his OT cycle today because of the successful EBT but now I'm not so sure. Should I keep at the EBT until he does? It doesn't seem to affect any of his NWs but it does give him those 45 min-1 hr of extra sleep.

Yeah, I would stick with it.  It's not really an EBT, strictly, as the day starts so early.  I'd just keep in mind that you don't really want the day to go over 13hr and you don't want the last A of the day to get too long.  That should be your best bet in getting a better night.

It's a bit strange that he doesn't always go back to sleep after a feed.  Is he struggling with gas or anything that could be causing him discomfort? 

We also could not find any overnight diapers in his size! Do they not exist in size 2?

Hmm, maybe not.   Another thing you can try is to just go up a size, so use size 3 for overnight.

[bestsmilee]

It's a bit strange that he doesn't always go back to sleep after a feed.  Is he struggling with gas or anything that could be causing him discomfort? 

If I knew, I would do something about it. I don't think he has reflux issues and I don't believe its gas either. I'm at a loss!

Maybe things are turning around? Although he has cried a bit today and is cranky at times, he has been a bit more content than he has been. He only took a 30 min nap this morning but after 2 hr 24 min A time he fell asleep for 2 hr 40 min! Nice nap!
Any advice for the time change?

[katie80]

If I knew, I would do something about it.

For sure, I hope it didn't sound like I was suggesting you weren't.  Just trying to brainstorm a bit.  Yay for the good nap!

Any advice for the time change?

Well, it should help you, actually.  I'm assuming you're in North America...   You might not get rid of the NWs, but the EW should get better naturally.  I've never done much different for this time change, it's the one in the fall that's the pits!  

[becj86]

Hi How are you going?

[bestsmilee]

Hi! Not great, TBH. Still dealing with multiple NWs and trying to figure out if the A times are the culprits but can't seem to find one that is working. I posted on over on General Sleep Issues board to seek some help while Katie was out