Chronic OT 5.5 month old. Help!

[jcsmom]

Hello again everyone. I am back and it's still not good. We had a good run for a while, then I think she needed a boost in A times, got OT from short naps, (classic UT naps of 45 mins, 1 hour 10 or 20-25)we're having long NWs and taking forever to go to sleep etc. etc. We were working with 2.25-2.5 A for a while. I was experimenting with a shorter morning A which totally backfired and  we are having trouble with bedtiming after the catnap. Basically, we are in a total OT mess.

I am pretty sure she began tacking her AM nap onto her night as we were only going with 2 hours A or less sometimes as she was so fussy. So she would sleep from 6:45-5:45. Nurse go back to sleep for 45 mins then after 2 hours A have her AM nap, sleep for 1 hour plus. Then she started waking for the day at 3:30 am. So I am pretty sure this is what was happening. Now she is so OT from missed night sleep this last week.

Yesterday's cat nap 4:15-4:45
Bt in crib at 6:30. Asleep at 6:45
woke after 10 mins. resettled by self at 7.
woke after 30 mins. My DH tried to resettle but I ended up nursing at 9 after he tried for over an hour.
Sleep 9:20-1:45
nursed at 1:45 asleep at 2
nursed again at 4 then it all went downhill from there. She slept from 4:15-5:15 then 5:25-6:25

This morning I figured I would push her AM nap out to 2.5 hours. She woke after 37 mins happy. It's an hour later and she is crying up a storm. I totally give up. Things were going well then I looked back on my logs and realized that her A's in the AM were getting shorter and shorter and her nights were going all wonky. Now she is totally OT. She has always been able to do more than normal A times. I know she is heading in the 3-2 and she needs an A push but it is so hard right now. And things were good for a while

[jcsmom]

After her AM nap she fell right back to sleep nursing for10 mins. Do I count that as sleep and count my A from there? She was super fussy after only 1 hour A, but I held her off and put her down at 12:00 (and when I say put her down I rock and hold her for all her naps
She slept 1 hour 23 and then fell back to sleep for another 10 mins nursing right away and woke at 12:36.

I know she is OT hence the 4am wakings that are tough to settle. She also whines a lot and jerks her arm. But I just can't seem to get her A right. We have been working on 2 hours A-2.25 hours A for over 2 weeks. When I reduced it a while back we were getting 24-34 minute naps.

[jcsmom]

Tried for a catnap after 2 hours A as she was showing sleepy signs and she just fought for an hour. Now what? She's been upnsince 1:30. No matter what I do she will be so OT by bedtime and we will never get out of this OT rut. I feel sick.

[ZacsMumme]

Ok Hun. First, she will be ok. So will you
I just think you have got in a loop. It's common. Especially at this age.
Here's what I would do.
After WU tomorrow morning do not put her down at all till at least 2hrs15 A try to resettle if you get a short nap.
If you can't resettle drop the next A 15/20 mins before next nap. If you get short naps all day and ok. Don't drop A below 1hr30 though.
If you can resettle or get 1hr or longer. Make the next A 2hrs15 as well.

Stick with this 3 days. ... Try EBT if you need to.

Any teeth? Poss GS? Is she trying to crawl etc?

[jcsmom]

I tried EBT today and she is still awake It's like her body doesn't recognize that it's night until after 6:30.  We have been in and out of there since 5:30. She's been awake since 1:36. We are for sure in a loop. If I go below 2 hours A she super short naps. I cannot win. If she UT naps I can't settle. I am seriously losing my mind. I am so tired of this. Almost 6 months of no sleep for either of us.
 
She is for sure having a GS, she is twice her size and she is rolling. But foremost she is chronically OT. My son was too and I went off my rocker.

[Joy-filled]

Oh dear, things really are rough for you as well .  No advice...just sympathies.  I have no idea how I'm functioning on an average of 4-5 hours of sleep/night for the past 6 months.  Sometimes I don't think I'm really functioning at all but somehow I am.  I'm sure you can relate.  There was one day a couple of weeks ago where my DS was awake from 11:55 am - 2:30 pm, slept for only 30 minutes until 3:00 pm and then did not go to bed until 9:30 pm!!!  It was absolutely awful.  He refused his CN and refused to go to bed no matter what we did.  It sure can be frustrating to want to help your LO so badly but feel so powerless to do so.  Sending a hug your way and a reminder that although you sometimes may not feel like it, you are a wonderful mom and your LO is blessed to have you.

[jcsmom]

Char K our LO's sound exactly the same. We have been dealing with poor sleep since forever. I don't know how she gets by. Or how I do for that matter. My longest stretch of sleep last night was 2 hours. I've been up since 4:30am.
We've had days where she naps 35 mins 3 times and then falls asleep at an ebt and then is up 45 mins later for hours. One night she was up until 11pm, fed at 3 then up at 6 for the day.
Last night she finally fell asleep at 6:30 after being up since 1:36. Woke at 8:45, 11:15, 1:30, 4:30 then I held her and she slept so fitfully pretty much awake and asleep every 10-20 mins until 6. Then she dozed back off until 6:35. She whined all morning so holding her off for her nap was impossible. She fell straight to sleep at 8:37. I am now rocking her to ensure a decent nap which is all I do now anyway.
I am now nursing at every waking too because if I try to hold off she freaks and scratches. That's a lot of unnecessary nursing and now she is barely nursing in the day.
I don't even know what to say or do anymore.

[jcsmom]

So today has looked like this:
wu 6:30 (however from about 5 am onward she was so fitful, if I hadn't been holding her she would have surely been awake
e 6:30 but she didn't take much as she ate all night
e topped up at 8:15
s 8:37-9:17 I jiggled her for a second and she went back to sleep until 9:57. Woke crying, in my arms as there are no more crib naps and I patted her and she slept from 10-10:15.

So do I aim for a nap at 12:30 and go by the 10:15 waking or go at 12:15 off the 10 am waking? Her E times are all over the place too since her first feed is never good as I feed at 4am and hold her for the last 2 hours of her sleep. I don't remember the last time I woke up in my bed in the morning. If I put her down after the 4 am feed she is up 40 mins later. She has done 11 hours with one feed several times before so I think 11 hours is her night. On really good days she seems to do 14.5 in 24 hours.

What routine should I be aiming for at this age? Not like we've ever had a routine

[ZacsMumme]

I think you need to increase that first A. Take it from WU, not 5 onwards. Are you going to try to stick with 1 A time first up fora week. Really the only way to get back on track is to stick with one first A, and try to keep the day relatively consistent too.

I would do a full A time myself on that first nap even though it was fitful.

[ZacsMumme]

Have you read these
All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months
Is my baby ready to increase his ‘A’ time? (incl. 'A' times for younger babies)

[jcsmom]

So I gave her a nap at 12:10 and she did the same. Woke at 40 mins looked around and went back to sleep for another 40 mins. Catnap at 4 for 33 mins (OT I am sure)
So today looked like this
Wu 6:40 (this is after a really fitful morning she is nursing all night and now waking after 10 hours so 4:30! This is OT right? But managed to get her back)
E wouldn't take much
S 8:40-10 then bts until 10:15
E 11
S 12:10-1:30
E 2:30
S 4-4:33 (tried from 3:40 as she was whiny fell asleep at 3:50 and woke 5 mins later fussed then bts for 33 mins)
Going for bed at 6:30.
I have read through everything on the 3-2. As you know I have had a hard time settling on an A for her as she is OT and has many NWs. I am so afraid to stick to 2.5 for first A because her naps are so erratic. We never ever get anything over 1 hour 20 unless I AP. Lots of 35 mins 43, 1 hour 5, 10, 20. Nothing restorative. In the AM she is sooooo fussy after an hour. But I have tried every first A known to man (except longer than 2.25) and nothing yields us a good first nap. 
Could the 3-2 cause my EWs, bedtime battles, chatty NWs? She is a wreck right now as am I (but you know this!)

[ZacsMumme]

Anything over an hour is restorative really Hun. Even 1 full sleep cycle is restorative. I know they are not ideal but catnapping doesn't do them any damage YK? - it sux, but to some extent it is normal.

Is she touchy?

[jcsmom]

She's touchy all right. But angel in all other ways. How come everyone else on here says naps must be 1.5-2 hours?
What do you think of today's naps? I feel like we go backward with A times, not forward. I have been working on these A's for over a month and a half. Then her nights get bad and A's go back. The same thing happened at this age with my son.
When do I aim for bedtime with a 30ish minute CN? She is battling bedtime something fierce.
Also she often falls asleep for 10-20 mins then wakes. I assume this means OT? I have tried every A to bed and can't seem to figure out which one is best.

[ZacsMumme]

I think even with a rough night I would only pull A back 10 mins.
15-2 hour naps are ideal yes. But I only getthem most days when I ap through 35/45 mins or 1hr. I is developmental that LOs up to ~ 6 mths short nap so don't beat yourself up over it. These touchies are tough too!

Hugs, I have no advice for BT. My son is fighting it with a passion we do 2 hrs A after 40 mins but it's hit and miss. We have the same silliness as you. I think it's OT but then I also wonder if it is also developmental. For us. BT is a battle. Usually we ap to sleep

My first as touchy and the best thing I did was stick with consistent A times, and when I needed an increase do it very slowly. Does she have white noise in her room?

[jcsmom]

I had her in bed at 6:20 so less than 2 hrs A after CN and she woke after 28 minutes. Wth? She had 2 semi good naps of 1:20 and a 30 minute CN. Normal-ish day right? She was cooing and chatting. So I re- did our routine and nursed her again and put her down at 7:30 and she was out after chatting for a bit.
My problem is for a few days one A works and then it all goes pear shaped. I hate naps. Hate them. But her nights are SO bad lately. In 2 weeks we have only had 2 nights with 1 wake in 11 hours.  Major chatty NWs. EWs at 4:30 or 10 hrs after bedtime. NWs early in the night that are also chatty and hard to settle. Etc, etc. We have it all. All the possible NWs, we have them some all in the same night. So I how do we even figure out what part of the routine isn't working?lol.
She has white noise and blackout curtains. Her room temp is the perfect 71, the furnace doesn't come on at 4:30, she doesn't have reflux, but does have a bit of excema. She isn't teething, she is rolling and sitting up, so lots of milestones. She is just a sucky, sucky sleeper!!!!