Chronic OT 5.5 month old. Help!

[jcsmom]

So after settling her she slept until 1ish up for a quick feed then up at 5:45. She wole crying so I know she was OT. She fell back to sleep nursing and slept maybe 30 mins until 6:20. I tried for a nap at 8:20 (perhaps I should have tried 2:15 from her 5:45 wake) her nap was very fitful. She slept 1 hour 13 then I jiggled her and she slept 15 more mins. Ending at 9:56.

[jessmum46]

Hey, just letting you know I'm here too reading along.  You've had fab advice from Sara already   I totally agree that you need to start pushing that first A time up - don't be scared of the bigger numbers. Believe me, I was totally in this same mess at this age - it's why I came to this forum in the first place!  My DD needed nearly 3h at 5.5m to do a decent nap and I just didn't believe it for ages, so ended up in the UT/OT loop that Sara mentioned.  I know when you can see LO is OT overall (which she probably is, we don't doubt that) then every natural instinct is to put her down sooner for naps.  But take a second to look at what's been happening - it's not working.  If she's OT now, what do you have to lose by just trying a longer A for a bit? 

[jcsmom]

I know what you are saying but her AM wake up time is all over the show. After 4 am she is up and down so by "morning" she is so tired. Today would have been a good day but I let her snooze on the breast and our AM nap was weird. Then for PM I put her down 2.25 from when she woke and she woke after 33 mins. She's been trying to get back to sleep since (with me rocking) off and on she just can't get into a deep sleep. So I know she is OT.
What do you think I should try in terms of AM A time? Right now her nights are so, so bad. I just want to get out of this rut we are in. My son was here too at this age and we never ever recovered. We were in a huge ut/ot loop for month. It was exhausting trying to keep up.

[jessmum46]

I would do 2.5h first A regardless of how unsettled the night is.  She'll be tired but set a clock and push through it.  Do you remember the bit in TBWSAYP where Tracy said do a jig if you have to?! That!  Just take it one bit at a time.  Set the first A time, then do what you feel you need to do to get through the rest of the day.  Stick to it for the next five days and then re-evaluate.  What do you think?

[ZacsMumme]

Hun, up and down is because of the loop though, and doing the same thing will result in the same thing YK? This time of morning is typical for unsettled sleep at this age. T is going through it a bit too. Sometimes I have to ap from 6-7 because he's pooped and tired but can't resettle on his own  after the poop

I think you need to have a cut off. For me with Z if after 20 mins he wasnt sleeping I got him up for the day if it was later than 5.30 (but he was a chronic spirited EWer) with T he is easier to resettle so I make the rule for 6/6.30

Then you just shift the day and tried to keep BT relatively consistent with a bit of EBT thrown in on tough days.

So. Given she is touchy I think a big jump won't work. But a small increase every 3/4 days consistently WILL. Personally I think your probably hitting the 3-2. These kids do better with longer As IMO because they need OT be tired to sleep well,and tired to allow you to APOP

- you can stick with 2.25 for 3 days then go to 2hrs30 and hold. In the meantime knowing she will do a short nap you can preempt to try to HTTJ or do w2s.
- if she has a paci you can use this to help resettle.
- you can give up, get her up and bring the next A forward 15 mins.

I am not underest how cr@p it is Hun. I've been there. Z was a horrid EW and napper till 6 mths. But it is only consistency that helped me eventually dig out.

What do you do at NW? - have you started st? Or are you aping back at each NW?

Opps posted at same time as Jm

[jcsmom]

I ap the heck out of her for naps and nights. She can go down by herself but it is a fight as her A times aren't right! If I rock her she goes down easy but is not always easy to rock back depending on if she is UT or OT. I hold for all naps right now. 
I try to aim for 7pm-6am. She is really only an 11 hour a nighter. She will do 12 if she is up a ton and/or she wakes after 11 hours she fall back to sleep after being up a while. But the unsettledness in the early AM has plagued us since she was a baby. The 9.5 hour hump. It's like her body knows when it has been in bed for 11 hours.

I have been doing 2-2.5 for 2 months, seriously. I go back and forth so much because her nights suck so bad. But her nights suck so bad because her naps do too! An EBT rarely works as she just wakes 11 hours later.

My DS was a 5:30 waker too. And an 11 hour a nighter. At this age I had his A at 1.5 because he was in an UT/OT loop and I didn't know. Then I did a big jump and he got majorly OT and it lasted forever.

Ok 2.5 it is, I am going to do it. So anything over an hour do 2.5. If less shave off 30 mins? what about after CN? 2 hours?

[ZacsMumme]

The reason lots of LOs are rubbish come 4-6am is twofold.
They hit light sleep, easily woken, hard to go back because had most of their sleep. And...
For both my boys this as well..digestion often takes place at this time in the intestines etc. babies with sensitive tummies and bowels will wake to poop, or get a touch sore with gas etc and become wriggly bunnies.

Your plan sounds great
Stick to it no matter what! 3 days, let us know how you go. X

[jcsmom]

Well the catnap failed.
Today
wu 5:45 back to sleep from 6-6:30
s 8:24-9:37 woke for seconds. Back to sleep until 10
s 12:15 tried fell asleep at 2:30 woke after 30 mins. Ap'd off and on until 2. Maybe slept another 30 mins
s attempted catnap at 3:50 because her other nap was so broken I figured she would need it sooner. Maybe she needed it even sooner.
She would not be rocked for the life of her.

So now I have a super OT bub. I guess 5:30 bedtime for her. That gives me 45 mins to get her bathed fed and in bed. I want to scream.

[jcsmom]

So we had her in bed at 5:30 and she fussed a bit and was quiet. Then when I checked the monitor she was awake and has been since. Wide awake playing in her crib. It is now 7pm and she has been awake since 2pm. From a 30 minute nap.

[ZacsMumme]

Oh honey.
Today was obviously a bit of a mess. Start fresh tomorrow ok.
That first nap....looks ok right? So it was a 1.5 hr nap all on her own?

[jcsmom]

She finally fell asleep at 7:10 and has been up twice since and it's 8:30.
Her first nap she woke after 1 hour something and I jiggled her for a minute and she went straight back.
So I don't know about her A times now. She is obviously so OT how is extending her A's going to make her less so? I wonder if I don't just put her down every hour!

I can't believe I am going through this again. I think she is possibly the most OT baby on the planet. Can it get worse? I don't think so.
I wish she would do sebt. We tried 4:45 a few times only for her to treat it like a nap and then be up until 8. We've tried 5 and same thing, she just won't fall asleep before 6:30. But she needs to get caught up somehow. How else can I do it?

[ZacsMumme]

She's sleeping a lot more than my first was when his reflux was uncontrolled. We're talking 10hrs total sleep in 24 some days and 8 hrs crying  

The reason extending her A will work is because putting her down so frequently she will short naps just perpetuates an UT/OT cycle, nights will probably get worse. Getting her into a consistent, predictable but not ridged routine will help reset her. You can push through the OT. Eventually they sleep (unless in pain)

[jcsmom]

Last night was a bust. Down at 7 up at 8. Down shortly after up shortly after. Up at 11:30, 12:30, 1:30,2:30. I brought her into my bed then. The awake at 4:30-5, 5:45 up for 45 mins down for 45 mins.
I had an epiphany last night. She does this unsettledness from 4 am onward and always has in the exact same pattern. Exactly nightly. I wonder if she tacks her catnap on to her night since it starts at 4 and I wake her after 30-40 mins. Then she is in bed less than 2 hours later. I wonder if she treats from 4:30ish-6:30pm as a nw? Then from 4:00am-7am she has 2 short naps and by her first am nap is already in a ut/ot cycle?
I dunno. There has to be some explanation for what she does from 4 am onward in the exact pattern every single night.
I am exhausted.

[jcsmom]

So today:
Wake (after being up at 4:30 and sleeping in 2-40 minute increments-something she has done since birth)7:15
S 9:45-10:15 woke and cried for 5mins and went back until 11:11
S 1:30 sat down and started rocking cried hard. Fell asleep at 1:40.Woke after 30 mins. Tried to rock her back but didn't go back
Going for a 4pm catnap and 6:30 bedtime.
So 2.5 is too much? I heard any nap after 4 at this age messes with nightsleep. Honestly, ours could not get any worse.

[ZacsMumme]

Just wondering....how are her poops? - my DS is constipated and it makes for unsettled sleep
Have you started solids?

Your first nap is good though right!
Tbh I'd be tempted to try push the next A closer to 2.45 and then try a resettle. If you get a good nap from it you could try super EBT of like 5.30/6 and see if the dropping of CN helps?