Chronic OT 5.5 month old. Help!

[jcsmom]

I am just so scared as on a 2 hour A I am getting 10-20 minute naps. I wonder when she wakes at 4:30 or 5 and I rock her if she is actually going back? Thus seeming so fitful. So by 8:30 she has already had a 3 hour A. I dunno. I have never ever been able to get her on a routine because her AM is so choppy from 4 am onward. and her AM nap is never the same length ever. No 2 days have ever been the same because the last 3rd of her night is so bad. It's like she starts napping from 4:30 AM onward.
She's a sleeping enigma. 

[jcsmom]

Last night was awful   again.
rocke d at 1.75 A fell asleep at 2 hours A. Woke after 10 mins. Rocked and put down at 7:09
woke 7:30 rocked back
woke 8:40 took until 9 to rock back
woke at 11:30 screaming (OT) and fed
woke at 2:30 fed and fell asleep with her in rocking chair when I went to put her down at 4:15 she woke so I fed her and she was out at 4:40
woke for the day crying at 6:07
Wanted to stick to the 2.5 A but it was so hard as she is soooooo fussy. By 7:50 she was full out crying. So we did a winddown and she was asleep by 2.5 A. Did a nice OT nap of 1 hour 13
It's now just over 1.5 hours A and she is full out fussy and miserable.

How am I going to ST if she is OT? Is it not unfair to expect her to sleep when OT at night with pu/pd? I don't know how we can get out of this OT loop?

[Joy-filled]

I know you've been following my post too and I encourage you to do what I did and just go for it.  I was super hesitant to increase his A time since he was so clearly tired but I really have seen some general improvements, especially with his night sleep.  I encourage you to just go for it and try to stick the longer A times.  Things really don't seem like they can get much worse for you as it is, so why not try?  I know it's tough, I really feel for you (hug).

[jessmum46]

I agree honey - it's worth a shot.  What makes you think the 1h13 nap was OT?

[jcsmom]

She was so super fussy afterward. Until next nap, which she is having on me! Fell straight to sleep no crying. I guess I am panicking as her nights are just so bad due to OT.

[jcsmom]

So we started some st. My DH did pu/pd for an hour and a half last night with a 6;30 BT after 1.5 A. This is after a 20 minute stroller nap (we tried from 2:15 A in the stroller) she woke after 30 mins he re-settled. She woke at 12 and I fed and then at 6:20 (DST so really 5:20) I figured I would get her up and start her day with the new clock.
She was so fussy at 1.5 hours A (after less than a 9 hour night) but I wanted to keep with the plan of 2.5 A. She was in her crib at 2:15 and my dh did pu/pd for 40mins. She finally settled and mantra'd for another 20 mins. Then slept 28 mins.
This would have been 3 hours A.

What do I do with that? She is so clearly OT it is breaking my heart.

[jcsmom]

Nap 2 no crying 32 mins. No extention. I tried for 40 mins.  I did a 1.45 A since 28 minute first nap (3hr A ). I could not hold her off she was crying hard. Perhaps I should have done less? I tried to extend but nothing. Fell asleep for 20 mins in the car on the way to son's hockey at 1.5 A and 36 mins on way home after 1.5 A from 20 min nap. Going for sebt of 6:30 (due to dst 5:30).
She wakes after 9-10 hours always. After that she sleeps in 40 minute increments. So if 6 pm bed after 4 she is wide awake. Or 7 pm bed she may wake from 1-3/4. Or she is up every 1.5-2 hrs after midnight.
 So by first nap she is OT. I know 9-10 hour nights mean OT. So does waking an 30 mins- hour after BT so she is super OT. I can't force her to sleep so how do I get her out of cycle? This has been going on since birth. She ss really early but I put her in the swing for nights due to these weird 9 hour wake ups. She used to wake at 3-4 am and chat or play in bassinet. There were lots of time I would peek in at her at 6 or 7 and she would be wide awake so I never knew when to do first nap.
If she does a 12 hour night it is only due to a long nw or me holding her and helping her past the 40 mins from 4 am onward. And even then I wonder sometimes if she is really sleeping since she is so wiggly and fitful in my arms.
Seriously, how do I get out of this OT mess if she just won't sleep? 9 hour night and 1.5 in the day is not good. She is clearly OT all giddy at the end of the day/fussy other times and red rimmed eyes. Flapping arms and limbs. Eye rubbing, ear pulling.
What's the point of st if she it OT she just cries and cries at bt or wakes after 30 mins. Her routine has never worked nor has ever been the same 2 days in a row. I really, really try to be consistent but how do I on a 28 minute nap?

[Joy-filled]

Don't take my word for it, (as I suggest doing whatever the moderator(s) tell you to do) but for us ST didn't work when OT.  We tried ST far too legalistically (PU/PD for every single nap and BT for 6 weeks straight.  It wasn't until 2 months of it not working that I finally realized it wasn't working because my DS was OT and I really needed to do some APOP to help him out.  (I hadn't known APOP was okay until I went on this website, I'd just been so paranoid that if I rocked, gave the soother, drove in the car, etc. any ground we'd made with ST would be lost and we'd be back at square one....in hindsight that was quite silly of me but I guess I just wanted to stick with Tracy's suggestion to be consistent).  Looking back, I now realize that the reason he would just scream and cry the entire nap time, day after day, was because he was OT.  And I was just making it worse by ST.  Poor guy. How differently I would do it if I could go back.  My thoughts are to first tackle the OT and then tackle ST....but again, don't do what I say - stick with the expert moderators .

[ZacsMumme]

Char - your advice is as good as ours honey. We're all just mums who have BTDT

I agree that if you feel LO is hideously OT then APOP and doing whatever works is the way to go, st can then be done. We're in the middle of st and T is having a reflux flare with a cold so having to hold off YK? - it is always going to be up and down with babies.

I guess the main issue here is you feel she won't sleep no matter what - correct?

[jcsmom]

She's just not sleeping even with apop. There are days I have rocked and rocked and still a 26-35 min nap. It's her nights. They are so bad. 8-9 hours of total sleep. I know she can ss. She just can't being as she is so overtired. But I can't hold her all night.
My DH did pu/pd tonight and she is still crying.
I will be apop-ing forever. She doesn't sleep better anywhere. I MAY get a longer nap cuddling her but not always. I was sitting in a dark room for hours and it still is not getting her over the OT. She's been awake for 10++ hours today with 3-30 min naps.
I ran into a friend today whose baby is same age. 12 hour nights and 2-1.5 hour naps. He is also so calm. She is so jerky and back arching, she won't sit still. Her boy was so mellow in comparison. I just want to cry.
What have I done wrong? The longer A times are not working just making things worse. Maybe she needs MORE sleep than average and I have always given her long A times. She does good naps for 2-3 days then it all goes to pot.
How in the world can I ever fix this mess? I am so at a loss. I just want to cry all day.

[ZacsMumme]

Ok...you have done nothing wrong. Some babies sleep anywhere, are content exhausted or happy onto sleep the day and night away. Others are cr@p at sleep (sorry but no better word for it)

I think honestly, you may have to ditch this...and try something like this to combat the OT. It worked really well for my touchy ds1 at 4/5 months. (Used the 4 mth one) Once your LO has caught up and this less crazy then work on ST and A increases.
http://www.babysleepsite.com/schedules/6-month-old-baby-schedule/

What do you think?

[jcsmom]

We actually hired her to send us a schedule. She told us a month ago to use 1.5, 2,2,2 (or less so we did 1.5- 1.75). We tried those A times and still got suuuuper short naps (20-43mins)basically 4 naps of less than 30 mins. So she suggested pushing out to 2,2.5,2.5,3. And have sort of set-ish naps. Naps got better then got worse again. She was really confused as to why her nights were so, so bad. Even with the ability to ss. There more OT she is the more she cries. She said it takes some babies a while to figure sleep out. 5 months of this though? Come on!

We had her in the swing for nights and naps since week 5-6 and things were not any better. I have apop'd the heck out of her. Long Nws, short naps, long naps, no naps. Even car, stroller etc don't yield us a better nap. Look at my history of posts and things have been seriously messed up sleepwise since week 5 or before. No 2 days have ever been the same. Ever. No routine despite all my trying.

I just feel like nobody can help us. I could send you weeks of logs and there is no rhyme or reason to her sleep. I wake everyday and dread the day.

[ZacsMumme]

Oh no hugs. I thought that schedule may have worked for you.

I still feel that with such terrible sleep all the time something else must be going on YK? I know you have ruled out reflux but you sure there is no discomfort? - I would consider talking to a dr or ped about her sleep if you are that concerned

[jcsmom]

I was convinced she has reflux (see my posts) but nope. We trialed renitadine with zero fix.  My family dr and the paed both could not find anything wrong with her. Not a thing. My family doc and paed both agreed no reflux and if she did we'd know for sure. It's not like she's in discomfort, she.just.won't.sleep
It just makes me so sad that we've had so many people trying to help and nothing has worked. A plus though she just did a 3 hour stretch (and I got to hang with dh and ds for the first time in forever)and she fell asleep tonight after only 40 mins. Maybe 3-30 min naps is the cure? Lol!

[jcsmom]

Last night was marginally better. She woke after 3 hrs had a quick feed then back for 5 hrs. After that she slept for an hour 15. Woke and was awake for 30 mins then slept another 45. For a total of 10 hrs. She was fussy after only 1 hour A. Crying rubbing eyes etc. It's 2:15 A now and still not settling crying up a storm with my dh. Have I totally misread my baby all this time?