Chronic OT 5.5 month old. Help!

[JennŠ]

To me she is just classically OT.

This may be true, but unless any medical issues such as allergy, malabsorption, milk issue are dealt with, babe will likely continue to have sleep problems.  To me she is telling you something is not right.

[Rachelss]

Just jumping in here as I meant to reply last night but ran out of time.

First on the possible discomfort, yes, I would definitely look into it and try to figure out what is causing the green poo....as others have said, there is something not right and if you can figure it out, then it could make a world of difference in terms of her staying asleep.

Also, an observation which may be useful.  We can all see that you're exhausted and under huge strain....for this, many trans-Atlantic hugs...but in some of your posts I can literally feel your stress seeping out of the screen.  I wonder whether she's also picking up on this and it is causing her to react?  Babies are sensitive little things and differences in your heart rate, adrenaline etc could be making it hard for her to relax, especially at nap and bedtimes where you are expecting a battle and AP-ing her in any way you can! This may be a really obvious point but sometimes the simple things get lost in the search for complicated answers, and they may be part of the jigsaw...

Hope this helps.

[jcsmom]

So we went to the doc and have ruled out everything. She's fine and seems fine. There is nothing she can find wrong. Spoke to a LC and she suggested block feeding to get rid of green poops.
I went over my logs from the last month and I've noticed she got into an UT/OT loop and now she is just plain OT. When naps were good we'd get some happy NWs/EWs which caused her to be OT I think for the rest of the day and things have just spiraled out of control. This seems to be how things have worked for her from the beginning.
When she needs an A push she short naps and then is OT by BT causing NWs thus perpetuating the cycle.
Trying to AP where I can but we have really lost our way. Her naps are yuck and her nights blech too. Lots of waking 45 mins after bt and not going back down, last night she was up off and on until 10pm. So short nights and then naps suffer as she can't handle the A she needs to have a good nap.
So our routine is totally off. Today her first A was 3 hrs (due to an EW-OT) and she woke after 40 mins. I got her back for another 40. 1.5 hrs A later she fell asleep nursing for 45 mins. Now she is on her "catnap" and it's not even 3 pm. How will we make 7:30 BT?
This is what I was aiming for prior to this mess:
6:30 wu
8:30-10 nap
12:30-2 nap
4:30-5 nap
Bt 7/7:30
I think she was often Ut at bedtime causing OT and I also think sometimes her overall A wasn't long enough causing NWs EWs.
I just don't know how get back on track?
Yesterday looked like this
Wu 6 am (7pm bed awake 1 hour from 8-9)
S 8:22-9:32 (shush/pat back to sleep for another 10 mins)woke 9:47
S 12:20 (I overshot this and got a 30 mins nap) managed to pat back for another 45 mins to 1:45
S 4:15-4:41 (26 min nap yuck)
BT 7 pm asleep 7:10 woke after 45 mins and was awake off and on until 10!
Wu 5:30
This is day 2 of waking 45 mins into BT. Ugh.

[anna*]

So she's six months old now? I'd be aiming for 2 hrs first A time then. What's the situation with teeth?

[jcsmom]

She'll be 6 months on the 21st. 2 hour first A at 6 months?
No teeth yet but I am sure they are on their way.

[anna*]

You may find she needs more. Actually looking at yesterday's EASY I'd go with 2.25hrs and be happy with any nap over an hour. I wouldn't try to extend a 1hr10mins nap (although, I'd leave her as long as she wasn't very upset to see if she'd resettle herself). At that age we would quite often get 2 x 1hr10-15 and a short catnap. I think yesterday wasn't too bad at all, maybe just a wee bit long between the end of the last nap and bedtime (nearly 2.5hrs after a 25mins nap) so she was a bit OT. Can you give meds at bedtime to see if it helps?

[ZacsMumme]

If it helps at all T is a touch younger than your LO and we are getting what Anna mentions 2x1hr20 ish and a 40 min CN. You get into an awkward period where they need the CN to get through the day but each A is slightly UT so the day isn't too long. They can't quite cope without the CN and long As but with it the day is long.

 We are
WU 6.45
Nap 9.15-10.30 sometimes he goes back for two hours total
Nap 1-2.30 sometime more sometime less. Usually always stirs at 1hr15/20
CN 4.30-5 or a bit later. I purposely do UT nap as he fights us at Bt
Bt 7/7.30
1 NF between 1130-3 (no DF due to reflux)

We also get the WU after Bt sometimes, yes it's usually OT but my first did this and eventually outgrew it. Sometimes they just fight fight fight sleep

[jcsmom]

We were doing 2.25 over a month and a half ago and getting NWs, long happy ones. I was expecting 7-7 and 2 long naps and a catnap and she has never needed that much sleep. So she would make up night sleep in the day. Or have UT EWs resettle for 40 mins at a time after 4 and start off the day OT.
She cycles like that a lot and then we get short OT naps again. I have figured out about 11 at night suits her and 3.5 in the day. She also doesn't tack on well.
So right now she is OT from 2 weeks ago getting nice long naps and nice long NWs/ EWs.
I am going to keep pushing her As though as everytime she does this I pull back on As and things get worse.
I think if I had've pushed As a while ago, we wouldn't be in this loop.
Today was weird:
5:30 Ew due to OT
Nap at 8:22 woke after 40 mins got her back until almost 10
Nap after 1.5 A she fell asleep nursing so I know she is OT and slept for 45 mins. It threw off the day.
Nap after 2.5 A for 35 mins. Managed to get her back quickly for another 55 mins. So she is settling in her cot by herself so this is a HUGE improvement.
My DH has also been putting her down at night and dealing with NWs. If she wakes after BT at 45 mins (which I know is OT) she has a really hard time resettling. I have also implemented a DF so I actually got 6 hrs of sleep last night!
So am I right to aim for
6am wake
8:30-10 nap
12:30-2 nap
4:30-5 nap
7 BT?
I know I am dreaming as most of her naps lately have been OT but resettlable.

[anna*]

That seems reasonable to me.

[jcsmom]

Just wanted to update. I took a bit of a break from here as I was stressed to the max. Things are getting slightly better but I still need some help with our awful naps.

So far here is what is better:
Got my DH to settle for all NWs. In a week she is now sleeping through 10.5-12 hours. I am doing a DF and DH settles all other wakings. Haven't had an wakings except EWs (yuck) for almost a week!
Naps are in the crib for the most part. We are still on 3 naps as our naps are dismal. I have tried every first A under the sun. I just can't figure out what A gets us a good nap. She was 6 months on the 21st. Right now I try to follow her cues instead of A times and the clock but not really working. I just wonder if I should just jump to 3 hour A times and just settle naps. We get reaaaaaallllly short naps of 22-27 (which I can't resettle) mins and some long naps over an hour.
Any advice on naps would be great!

[jessmum46]

Can you post us a recent day or two in EAS format?

So glad you are getting better nights!!

[jcsmom]

Last night she was down at 6:45 after waking at 4:30 from a 30 minute nap. She was asleep on the monitor then I heard a yelp and I looked again and she rolled around trying to get comfy with her lovey until 7:30. She slept through til I heard her at 6:20 and got her out of her crib at 6:45 as she was playing ( we often wonder if she is awake much earlier and isn't really STTN for as long as we think). She was yelling and fussing by 8 am so I wound her down and she was asleep by 8:30 and back up 28 minutes later. I tried for 30 mins to resettle, leaving her when she seemed settled then she would pop back up again.

This has been going on since I stopped rocking her and did ST. Her nights are excellent for the most part but her naps are still rotten. Yesterday she napped 29 mins in the AM (3 hours A), an hour 15 (2.5 hours A) in the PM and a catnap of 30mins at 4(2.5 hours A) and bedtime (2.25 hours A).

When I was rocking and holding and extending naps she was up from 3 am onward. Now I am not doing that her naps are super short but her nights are good 11-12 hours for the most part.

[jcsmom]

Again another great night. She seems to have great nights despite long A times and short naps. We've pretty much been sticking to a bedtime of 7pm to try to regulate her day.
CN 4-4:30
Bed and asleep 6:55
w 6:35 chatted and played in crib until 7
E 7
Solids at 8
Nap at 9 until 9:36 would not resettle

I was trying for 3 hours A (it just seems like so much!) but got scared and went for 2.5 as she was fussy after 1.75. Tugging ears, rubbing eyes. Was she OT or UT? I just can't seem to get this first nap right! When I was APOPing naps her first nap was for the most part over an hour  and her PM nap was also over an hour but her nights were terrible (awake from 3am onward falling back to sleep for 40 mins at a time). Now her nights are stellar we can't seem to get her to nap!
I don't even know what A time to shoot for this aft. after a 36 minute nap!

[ZacsMumme]

What about trying 2hrs45 first A, then 3 for the next if you get a good nap. Remember for all A changes you have to stick with 1 A for 3-5 days to see improvement as they get used to it.

Your nights are awesome - I'm jealous!

[jcsmom]

Do I go from when I hear her or from when we get out of bed? I am worried to go so high as some naps are less than 30 mins after 2 hrs A time. Is this super OT or super UT? Today we got her out of the crib just before 7 but she haad been awake since 6:35. So I based a 2.5 on that time but got 36 mins. I get so confused by these short naps. But yes, her nights have been amazing but surely ruined by a 4 hour A time and a nap at 5:15 )she would not go for a catnap at my in-laws and is now asleep in the car. Not sure what to do about bedtime now.
I will stick to the higher A's now that her nights are so good. I kind of don't care about naps now but know she needs them!