2 - 1 Troubles for 10.5mo

[Lindsay27]

So we've had EWs every single day this week and we are getting as many as 4 NWs.  Everything is a complete mess.

The ladies on the 2 - 1 board suggested dropping the AM nap to 30mins, and then doing a 2hr A, but I'm not sure how that's going to work with the EWs.  Even if he has a 4 hour A after wakeup (5:30 - 9:30), then he would only be napping from 9:30 - 10am, then a 2 hour A only brings us to 12 noon and if he did a 2hr nap that's only until 2pm.  I realize that an EBT would be required (probably 6pm) but we have never had success with that because I can't seem to settle him if he wakes up at 5am or later.

I'm stumped.  And tired.

[My little Liam]

Same situation here Lindsay! I am soooo tired! LO usually resettles himself but I am awake everytime he wakes (3-4 times a night) with 0525 WU today 9.5hrs of sleep. I can't take this 2-1 anymore... I am exhausted! I am so tempted to go back to trying 1 nap even if things get bad for a while.... I mean, things are bad as the are anyways!!! Sorry I took over your post

[Jblad]

Im in the same boat as the both of you. But u know ive noticed that if i give a full A time after a 1hr20 nap even.. The EW move closer to 7 am! A full A for LO right now is 4 hrs.

[Lindsay27]

He managed to sleep until 6am this morning (sad that that's an improvement!) so I am going to try a 45min AM nap and a long PM nap today.  Hopefully it works.  Last week was just SO off in every possible way...every day was different.

I am just getting nervous about it all because I go back to work in about 1.5 months, so I would really like this to be sorted out so that he'll be on the same routine as the other kids at daycare (and he'll be STTN when I go back to work!).

[Lindsay27]

We need some serious help, I am just at a loss of what to do any more.  Our day has gone like this...

WU 5:50am
A
Nap 9:30 - 10:15 (I capped it)
A
Nap 1:20 - 2:30

I really don't think our short PM nap is UT...he was absolutely hysterical when he woke up and he's still exhausted.  I tried to get him back to sleep for 30mins and he was losing his mind.  I know he has chronic OT at this point from all the NWs, EWs, and short naps.  I can't understand why he isn't napping longer in the afternoon.  I have been having to do EBTs, but I feel like that's what is contributing to our EWs - take today for example, he can't go from 2:30pm to a normal BT like 7:30pm, so we have to to an EBT, but then he wakes up at 5:30am after an 11hr night (with multiple NWs) and I can't get him back to sleep.

I am so frustrated.  The short AM nap/long PM nap worked really REALLY well for a week, but since it's all been complete madness.  I really have NO clue what to do with our routine.  I've tried going back to 2 complete naps (I think he did 1.20hr in the AM and 1.5hr in the PM), but our nights were no different and when I tried it again he refused the PM nap which is why we went to short AM/long PM to begin with.

It has been suggested I try 30mins in the morning, but I don't know how to work that?  And he is such a complete bear after I wake him up after 45mins I can't imagine what he'd be like after 30mins.  It would end up looking like this...

WU 5:30am
A
Nap 9 - 9:30...even if I pushed it to 9:30 - 10
A
Nap 11:30 - 1:30 or 12 - 2...that's even if he did 2 hours
BT...6pm?  Then if he did 11hrs that would bring us to 5am and I've never been able to resettle him after 5am

I tried putting him to bed at 6pm last night because he refused the PM nap and he'd been awake since 1pm, and that was a nightmare.  I'm so lost.  Please HELP!

[Lindsay27]

Can someone please help me.  Please.  I am so desperate.  DS has been awake since 5:30am and it's now 2pm and he hasn't slept all day.  Literally.  I don't know what to do.  I've tried every form of APing known to man.  He is past being overtired that now he won't sleep at all.  Please help me.

[amayzie]

Oh hon- Sorry- i left you hanging again!!

Can you put him in the car to AP a nap at all? My guy is also terrible at being woken up from a nap- that's why i did it in the car. if you can AP the first nap then it might be eaasier for you to wake him early from it.

So as far as the EBT goes- do you find he tacks on the sleep- or that he just sleeps for the 11 hours and wakes up anway? Is it an actual catch up for him? If not i would probably not do it as it's ony waking him up earlier and starting the day too early- making things worse!!

So tel me again- you did the week of 45am and uncapped pm and all was good? Any EW and NW with this? THen it stopped working... what went wrong first- what told you that it wasn't working anymore?

At the moment you need to do as you are doing and try to get him caught up on some sleep- try again a day with the long AM and Pm nap? Perhaps rather than do it for 2 days in a row only do one day with the long naps, then drop back to short ones?

[Lindsay27]

DH and I share 1 vehicle so depending on his work schedule sometimes I have a car during the day and other days I don't, yesterday I didn't have one so I couldn't AP a car nap, and honestly...it's still winter here so if we have to go out I have put put a snowsuit on him and a hat and mits, so sometimes going in the car isn't worth the hassle.  I tried a long walk in the stroller but that did nothing, I would have welcomed a car nap yesterday!

The EBTs aren't working, he isn't tacking on any sleep and just wakes up at 5:30am no matter what.  But, what other choice do I have if he's been awake so long, yk?  Though the last 2 days naps have been brutal (or lack of naps), he was STTN (though with the EW).

We had 1 week where I capped the AM nap and then he did around 2 hrs in the afternoon (sometimes a little more).  BT was usually around 7:45pm and then he did 11-12hr nights straight.  I think what went first was the PM nap started getting shorter, and then we hit the weekend where our routine normally gets messed up, and by Monday we couldn't get back on track.

Yes, he needs to catch up on some sleep...it would do him a world of good.  He is a bit congested and has a cough which isn't helping anything at all (though everything went wonky before those symptoms came).  I think today I am going to take him for a long drive in the morning and then see what we can muster up in the afternoon.

[amayzie]

hmm.. so yeah- i'd try first to catch up some sleep and hopefully the cold will clear up soon. And the car doesn't suit everyone- it's pretty easy for me to jump in the car- not that easy if you have to put on a snow suit!!!

I'm wondering if the PM nap shrinking might have been that he was needing more A time somewhere along the ling- or that you needed to cut the AM nap a bit shorter at that point. THe end result was OT accumulation- but may have started because he was UT- make sense?

As far as the early bed time- they can sometimes handle a long time to bed after the nap. I often found it best not to count the PM A time as i'd get too anxious!! When do you NOT get the early wakings? Can you try bringing bed time forward a bit- say by half an hour- but not by much more as it might shift his night. How is he at the early wakings- happy? Crying?

[Lindsay27]

We had an okay day yesterday, I tried putting him down for the AM nap here but he just wasn't dropping off, so we AP'd a 1.5hr car nap.  We had the PM nap about 3 hrs later and he did about 1.10hr (woke after 30mins and I resettled him) and then a BT of 7:15pm, but still the 5:30am EW!  Goodness those are getting beyond annoying. 

I think I'm going to try to stick to 2 naps for another day at least and play a little more catch up, but yes I think you are right in that an adjustment probably needed to be made to the morning with regards to A time or shortening the AM nap more and then it all got away from us and OT accumulated.

When do you NOT get the early wakings?

These days, never!  He has woken up at 5:30am every day for close to 2 weeks now.  We weren't having EWs when his routine was good and he was getting enough quality daytime sleep, so I think once his naps are sorted they might go away.  I hope!!!

Can you try bringing bed time forward a bit- say by half an hour- but not by much more as it might shift his night. How is he at the early wakings- happy? Crying?

When he wakes at 5:30am he is usually crying, actually always crying.  Though, this morning he was more sort of grumbling so I just left him and he dozed on and off for about 45mins.  It wasn't quality sleep because I could hear him wake up again every 10mins or so and then fall back asleep, but he wasn't crying so I figured no point in going in...and it gave DH a little more sleep as he gets up with him and does his first feed.  In terms of the BT, it doesn't really seem to matter what time he goes to bed, he is still up at 5:30am.  We've done quite a few 6:30pm BTs over the last week because he simply can't make it past that (and such he shouldn't because he's had such an early start), but last night we were able to manage a 7:15pm BT and it didn't really make a different wrt the WU time.

[amayzie]

the crying does sounds like OT to me- and the fact that it was better this morning when he wasn't as tired is a good sign i think. Perhaps one more day of catch up naps do you think? The other thing you could try is just waiting till he starts refusing the PM nap again to shorten the AM nap as that will tell you that he is not over tired anymore....

[Lindsay27]

Today was much better, I went with another day of catch up and he had a 1.45hr nap this morning   We had a play date this afternoon, so the PM nap ended up being WAY later than  I wanted (4pm), so I only let him nap 45mins.  He was out cold when I went to wake him up, so I figured he was still pretty tired and kept BT early at 7:15pm and he went down without a peep.

the fact that it was better this morning when he wasn't as tired is a good sign i think.

He is starting to look a little more like himself, and act more like himself too!  I think he's definitely starting to recover from the OT madness, and he still STTN last night, so hopefully he will again tonight and be well rested tomorrow   I hope once he catches up that the EW will disappear...wishful thinking right?  At least this morning he dozed on and off for a while, which gives me a glimmer of hope.

The other thing you could try is just waiting till he starts refusing the PM nap again to shorten the AM nap as that will tell you that he is not over tired anymore....

I think you are right, and especially since it is Easter this weekend and we have lots of family things planned, getting a solid AM nap will be important because I don't know what the afternoons and evenings are going to hold with family visits.

[amayzie]

Ohh yeah- a long weekend is NEVER the time to start trying to right the routine!

[Lindsay27]

Arg, we just can't seem to crack this EW.  We've had EWs before but none that have lasted this long.  Last night we were at a family dinner and didn't get DS home and to sleep until about 9pm, but he still only slept until 5:30am.  I was able to resettle him but he only slept another half hour, so only 8.5/9hrs of night time sleep.  He is STTN but if he could get past that 5:30am and get another hour into him I'm sure he'd be doing much better, and I could get more consistent timing of naps.  You can guess what he was like this morning! 

Our routine has been kind of hit and miss with family visits the last few days, but those are done now so I'm trying to nail it down starting today, but then I leave for 4 days on Wednesday and MIL is caring for him, so I'm sure he'll be a complete write-off when I get back!

[Skadiver13]

Hey you never know, sometimes a break in "routine' is just what they need to snap out of it. Maybe having MIL take care of him while you are gone will be a good thing. It at least gives you a break and you get some sleep.