Help me troubleshoot easy for newly 4-month old

[amom526]

E is just shy of 4 months. He is somewhat textbook/somewhat touchy.

I need to change his EASY, but everything is complicated by pick up and drop off for my toddler 3 days a week. Until now, I have been doing one catnap before drop off, a long morning nap, a long afternoon nap, and a catnap before bedtime. But this isn't really working anymore. This is further complicated by the fact that he never has a consistent Wake up time, and can not cope at all with being overtired. He is able to put himself to sleep, but sleeps mostly in the swing right now. He does one nap a day in his crib, but I have had 0 luck extending that nap past 45 minutes,

Another complication to our EASY is that he is EBF and he will only eat when he is really hungry. I cannot top him off before naps. SO his eating times are starting to coincide with times that he wants to be eating. He's pushing out his A time, but his E time is not following.

Drop off is 845, and Pick up is 1130 right now, possibly moving to 1230 soon

Old/current EASY:

WU: anywhere between 530-630. I have been aiming for a 630 wake up time.
E: varies, 530-630
S: CN 730-8 or 815
E: 845/9
S: 930-11
E: 11 or 1145 (before or after pick up)
S: 1230-2
E: 2
S: 3:30 or 4 - 4:30
E: 5
BT: 6

He can handle 2 hours of A after a good nap, but he is not really getting any good naps right now. I think he is stuck in an UT/OT cycle. My problem is that he cannot make it until we get back from drop off without a cat nap. But if he cat naps, he is then UT for his next nap. Is this too young of an age for set naps?

I wish I could have him napping 915-1045, 1245-215, and then a cat nap. I think this sounds like a reasonable schedule for a 4 month old, but he wakes p so early, so I am nervous to cut out that morning cat nap and then start the day OT. He is waking up from hunger in the early mornings, and just has a hard time re-settling if its after 530. He is also doing the developmental short naps thing, so we are just winging it a bit, but I would like to have an ideal to be working towards.

Any tips? Not sure if this belongs in EASY or Naps.   

[Ima shel Alon]

The biggest problem I can see in your EASY is the EBT. If he goes down at 18 then you really can't expect him to sleep later than 5:30 - that's an 11.5h night, a very good night actually. So I would rather suggest that you work on pushing BT later so WU will be later. If your WU would be 7 (and so does BT) then you morning nap can be at around 9 like you want it to be and then you get rid of the CN before drop off. What do you think?
This is one idea of how to shift BT and WU: Moving Wake Up and Bedtime
Also if your WU is at 7 and he has a feed then, then a nap at 9ish till 10:30ish - do you think he can handle 3.5h between feeds?

[amom526]

So that is what I am aiming for right now. Because we pushed up the clocks last night, he went to bed around 645- he woke up at 6 to eat this morning, and actually went back to sleep. I heard him at 730, but I'm not sure what time he actually woke up cause he had a dirty diaper, and seemed wide awake. I tried to feed him at 8, but not interested. I could tell he was getting tired by the time I had to leave to drop of DS1, and I got back at 845. He was too tired to eat - this is what I forsee as being the biggest problem. He doesn't take a bottle, and can't wait for letdown when he is tired. I put him to sleep (had to rock in swing cause OT) but I'm not sure how long he will last before he wakes up from hunger.

I assume he will wake up around 10. I guess if that happens I will try for a short nap 1130-12, and then a longer nap 130-3? Then CN 5-530? I was hoping to get away from a 4 nap schedule but it looks like I may not have a choice until he can handle being awake longer before his first nap.

I don't  think pushing out bed time will be a problem, because I usually wake him from his last catnap anyway.

[Ima shel Alon]

He woke up at 7:30 and was tired short after? That doesn't make sense. He should be handling around 2h A time right now. Could it that you are confusing tired cues with boring signs? They often look the same and if LO seems tired too short after WU then it's usually something different than tiredness.

[amom526]

I'm not sure. I think it's more likely that he just woke up a lot earlier than I thought. I'm pretty sure he was tired, because the only time he really cries at the breast is when he is too tired to eat. If he's not hungry or tired, he'll just turn his head away.

I agree that he should be handling more A time, but he seems to have trouble handling a long A in the early morning. I would say he is average to high sleep needs.

I guess I should just keep aiming for a 7-7 night, and hope he can get used to staying up until 9 for his nap. I think if he had a good feed at 7, he would be bale to sleep until 1030 without waking up from hunger. But he often wakes at 5 or 6 to eat and then won't eat again at 7 because he's no hungry.

ETA just woke up at the half hour mark 930 - going to attempt a feed now and then to re-settle
ETA2 he was able to eat while half asleep, and I hope he goes back. Definitely not a habit I want to get into, but not sure what else to do at this point. Definitely not easy to figure out EASY with a toddler schedule to keep track of. 

[amom526]

I couldn't re-settle. Tries for 45 minutes. He is up now and playing.

I just wish I knew what kind of EASY i was even aiming for. I don't think he is ready for 2 long naps and a catnap. Does it make sense to try for an easy with 2 short morning naps, a long afternoon nap, and a catnap?

[Ima shel Alon]

But he often wakes at 5 or 6 to eat and then won't eat again at 7 because he's no hungry.

If you fed him at 5-6AM then try not to offer a feed first thing in the morning and wait till 8-8:30 (if he can) and then he should be full enough through the nap.

The fact that he is not napping long shows that he is actually ready for a little bit more A time. As long as you keep a too low A for his age you'll have issues to deal with. I found this in the routine samples and I think it will help you because you said you don't know what to aim for:
Here is Joey's schedule at 14 weeks.  I don't wake him unless I'm protecting his third catnap or bedtime.  I also don't do a DF.

wake up anywhere from 7-7:30 but I try to not feed until 7:30
E 7:30
A
S 9:20-11:30
E 11:30
A
S 1:30-3:30
E 3:30
A
S 5:30-6:00
E 7:00
A Bath
E 7:45ish (just an ounce or two to make sure he goes to sleep not hungry)
S 8:15 p.m. asleep

If he wakes up early from a nap, we have A time before E.  If he wakes up late, everything is pushed back ... basically he just always goes down two hours after waking up.

Posted by: Carmela’s mom-August 29, 2006

WU and BT are different than yours, but you adjust it to fit to what works for you.
If you know exactly what time he woke up and you after a certain A time in the morning you get a full restorative 1.5-2h nap then you can leave that A for now because some babies need their A in the morning shorter than the rest.