Author Topic: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep  (Read 3675 times)

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Offline fellianne

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7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« on: March 25, 2013, 13:23:41 pm »
This is not a new thing, but it's been progressively getting worse and I just don't know what to do!  I've been on two other boards with this little one for her sleeping and reflux.  I think the reflux is now controlled and she isn't in pain anymore.  But she just won't sleep!  She'll stay up all day and night if I didn't make her fall asleep.

I've been sh/patting for months.  But when she was in extreme pain with her reflux and gas, I just picked her up and comforted her to sleep however we could.  The sh/pat always worked to settle her, not matter what.  For the last 1.5 months or so, she is just way too interested in all her surroundings to relax at bedtime.  I've had to swaddle her arms so they won't distract her, face a plain white all (which I can't do now cause she just fights).  I feel like she is wired ALL the time!  She has never, ever been a baby who would nurse to sleep.  I try and she sometimes will, but most of the times she just won't settle.  And when she is getting drowsy and her eyes are rolling back and all, she just fights and fights!  Why does she do this?  I don't know what else to do!  She is my 3rd and I have never seen a baby fight sleep the way she does.  When she was 4 weeks old she stayed awake for 4 hours one day!  I tried and tried to get her to sleep and she just fought and fought.  I don't understand and I don't know what to do.

Offline Shiv52

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2013, 13:44:19 pm »
Can you post what you day looks like?





Offline fellianne

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2013, 15:24:27 pm »
Sorry for the typos before.  I was a bit frustrated when I was writing.

Up between 6-7.
BF when she gets up - though we also do that in the wee hours of the AM in my bed.
A - for around 2.5 hours.  She shows signs of being tired usually right around the 2 hour mark and then I'll start to try to wind her down.
S - Sometimes it's for 45 minutes and then I have to resettle her.  Other times it's 1.5 - 2 hours.  Every day is different.  Up until 3 or 4 weeks ago it was consistently 45 minutes.

We continue this cycle all day.

She is the youngest and has to be brought along to many activities with her two older siblings.  She has never slept in the car.  She'll just fuss in there when she's tired but won't ever fall asleep.  I get her to sleep in the Ergo when it's naptime and we aren't at home.  She'll give me 45 minutes in there.

I try to have her in bed by 7:30 at the latest, but that also depends on what games and stuff we are at in the evening.  But my goal is always before 7:30.  And she is up all night, too.  She usually wakes 30-45 minutes after I put her down.  Then sometimes not again until 10, but other nights every 45 minutes until I feed her at 10.  Then I try to keep her in her own bed.  Last night she fell asleep from 9:45 til 12:20 in her own bed!  She's usually pretty hard to settle after the 10 pm feeding.  When I realized she was just in so much pain early on, I started just bringing her in bed with me when she was so fussy and uncomfortable.  So we definitely have bad sleep habits going on.   

I always nurse her when we are getting ready to go to sleep.  I'll change her, swaddle her and nurse her.  Once in awhile she'll fall asleep at the breast, but most of the time she'll start to relax and then fight it.  Her body will start to relax and eyes get drowsy, then she'll pop those eyes open and pull off my breast.  At that point I'll try to sh/pat her or bounce her or whatever seems to have a settling affect on her.  It is never the same anymore.  Sh/pat used to always settle her.  And before the terrible pain kicked in, she could just about fall asleep in her bed on her own!  Now she'll rest her head on my shoulder for a little bit then it's up and looking around at whatever she can see.  I sometimes hold her like a baby in my arms and that will settle her.  Then when she starts to drift off she pulls her head up wake herself up.

Today she woke at 6am - still very tired but I couldn't resettle her.

I started her wind down at 8:15.  She actually fell asleep nursing and I laid her down at 8:24.  She woke at 8:30.  I went in and couldn't settle her at all.  I tried to sh/pat in her bed, took her out and did it, rocked her, bounced her, just stood and held her, put her down and told her it was "night night time" and left.  When she fussed I went back in and we started the whole thing all over again.  This went on til about 10 when she finally gave in and fell asleep.  But only for 30 minutes.  Now she is up, tired and miserable.

I don't think she is teething yet and she's on prevacid for her reflux.  We also saw a chiropractor for her tummy issues for about 4 weeks and that seemed to help her gas and reflux pain.

We were doing some solids, though she doesn't really like much.  She was constipated so yesterday I went back to just breast milk to see if it's one the foods or something. 

I feel really bad cause it's been so hard since she was born.  It's been one thing or another with her and sleep has always been hard.  This week is spring break and we don't really have anywhere we need to be so I really wanted to focus on her sleeping.  But we are off to a rough start already.  And she is tired.  I just don't know what to do.  We are a mess.

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2013, 13:06:28 pm »
(((Hugs))) it can be exhausting can't it when LO isn't sleeping? 

I think probably she is going for her first nap too early.  At her age an average A time is more like 3h.  45 min naps are a classic UT length, and then every few days she has a long catch up nap because of the days of bad napping.  I would work on pushing that A time by 10 mins every 3-4 days until you get a consistent longer nap.  The problem with the short first nap is that she ends up OT by the next nap, so has a short nap again and remains OT all day. The waking 30-45 mins after BT is a classic sign of OT.

Is she still having three naps most days?  That might be necessary occasionally if she can only grab catnaps in the ergo or you're out late, but ideally she should be having just two naps at this point.  If you can push her A time gently to 3h you should get there quite easily.  You may also find she settles easier if she is appropriately tired before she goes for her nap.

It sounds like shh pat might be irritating her - what do you think?  PUPD isn't recommended for refluxers so I wonder if you could try just sitting beside her cot with a hand on her chest/tummy for reassurance?  Some mums like to sing or hum while LO falls asleep?  Or use white noise?






Offline fellianne

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2013, 13:26:19 pm »
Thank you!  She has been up since 6am today and I was just in her room for the last 40 minutes trying to settle her down.  It's now 9:17 and she's not sleeping.  I'll push her A time to 3 hours.  Should I start to wind her down at 3 hours or should she be in her bed at 3 hours?

I was thinking sh/pat might be distracting.  Yesterday I ended up just patting her back and swaying for a LONG time and that settled her.  It is seriously taking me nearly an hour sometimes to get her asleep.  I do try to put my hand on her chest as she settles, but then she thinks my hand is a toy.  She is so interested and distracted by absolutely EVERYTHING!  It's kind of frustrating. 

We have white noise on all the time when it's bedtime. 

We are pretty much down to two naps, but sometimes I'll squeeze in a 3rd if it's been a really long day or if we are out late.  We dropped the last catnap several weeks ago.

I just don't know how she does it.  She can go and go and go on no sleep at all.  And she's fussy, but just won't stop.  Is it bad to swaddle her arms now?  She kind of fights it, but it tends to settle her.  But then I was wondering about her hands not being free and keeping her from self soothing?  I just don't know what to do.  But I'll push her A time in the AM to 3 hours consistently.

Thank you!

Offline fellianne

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2013, 15:02:43 pm »
After I posted I went back in and swaddled her arms.  I picked her up and held her like a baby and rocked. She fought a few times (as her eyes were rolling in the back of her head) and then she finally gave in and fell asleep.  I feel like this is mean to do.  Is it?  She was SO tired but just couldn't settle down.

Then she woke 45 minutes in.  I went in and tried to calm her in her bed which only made her think it was playtime.  So again I swaddled her arms in and picked her up.  This time she had her head on my shoulder and after a few minutes she fell back to sleep.

Is the arm swaddling a bad thing to do at this age?  I don't do it all the time, but when I do it usually works.  I feel like she's in a straight jacket and when she wiggles and fights it makes me feel like I shouldn't be doing it.  But it usually only takes a couple of minutes and she will fall asleep.

Offline fellianne

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #6 on: March 27, 2013, 10:58:24 am »
Last night I tried to have her asleep by 7, but she fought so hard and ended up not falling asleep until 7:40.  She had woken from her nap at 3.  Then she was up pretty much every 1/2 hour after that.  Sometimes it was 15 or 20 minutes.  ALL night.  I finally gave up at 3 and put her in bed with me.  She then slept for about 2 hours before she woke to nurse.  Then at 6 she started to wiggle and was up for the day at 6:15.  I don't know what to do.

Offline fellianne

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #7 on: March 27, 2013, 11:10:19 am »
One more question - I tried to let her cry in her crib with me there the whole time.  Is that like ferberizing?  I read the story at the top of this board about the mom ferberizing her baby and how her baby turned her head away.  Mine does that when she cries for awhile in her bed.  But I haven't left while she's been crying.  I have left when she fusses and won't settle to get a few minutes of break, but not when she is all out crying.  And I always go back.  Have I broken trust with her?  Does she turn her head away cause she doesn't trust me?  I thought it was her trying to settle and shut everything out.

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #8 on: March 27, 2013, 18:43:15 pm »
To answer your questions - swaddling can often provide comfort well beyond the point where the startle reflex has gone, but generally it is important that the arms are unrestricted once LO can roll over for safety reasons.

3-7pm is a long A time - I would have probably tried for a 6.30pm BT at the latest really.  That many night wakings however suggests some discomfort to me - what do you think?

No you absolutely haven't broken trust if you have been there for her when she has needed you :-* it's a very different thing from Ferberizing if she is learning to settle with your help and presence for reassurance if she needs (e.g. With shh pat or a gentle hand on her).  Ferberizing/CC/CIO all refer to leaving a baby alone to cry for extended periods - you haven't done that and you haven't broken her trust xx

Offline fellianne

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2013, 15:04:17 pm »
Thank you.  You are right about her being uncomfortable.  I had to take her to the dr this morning because she is constipated.  It's been gradually getting worse the last few weeks.  She is going to start miralax today.  I thought that many night wakings might have meant discomfort, too.

The dr told me today that I should just let her cry it out.  I can't do that.  When I do the swaddle thing, I take her arms out when she's asleep before I lay her down.  Last night she slept 3 hours before waking for her 10 pm feed then fussed until I finally put her in bed with me. :(  She then slept another 3 hours before wanting to eat.  She naps and starts the nights out in her own room.  But I always end up bringing her in my bed at night because she just doesn't settle in her bed.  And I am so tired.  I'm sure I need to stop this, right?

Offline fellianne

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #10 on: March 29, 2013, 18:58:16 pm »
She woke at 7 this AM.  I put her down for her nap at 9:50 and she fell asleep easily while nursing.  She woke just 45 minutes later and wouldn't resettle.  So I got her up.  I shortened the afternoon A time and got her ready for her nap around 12:50.  She is still awake and it's now 2:55.  I spent two hours trying to settle her and get her to sleep.  She wiggled, squirmed, thought it was play time, fought the sleep when her eyes rolled back in her head.  I had to walk out several times and she just played or fussed in her crib.  I finally got her up.  I don't understand why she won't sleep.  She has been awake now for over 4 hours now.  Her eyes look tired and she's fussy.  I don't know what to do. 

Offline fellianne

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #11 on: March 29, 2013, 22:30:57 pm »
She is finally in bed for the night (I wish) and it's 6:24.  She was up from about 10:40 this morning until now.  About 7.5 hours!  I don't know how she does it.  I tried everything for 2 hours to get her to sleep for her nap today.  She just won't settle down.  When I sit with my hand on her chest she just thinks it's playtime.  She rolls all over the bed and I have a hard time keeping my hand one her.  She talks and coos.  Then she'll fuss for awhile and then talk and coo some more.  I'm nervous for all the waking tonight and I don't know what else to do.

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2013, 12:43:07 pm »
Has she got anything going on developmentally at the moment e.g. learning to crawl?  Is she teething?

Where are you at with A times?  I'm wondering if she's UT when you put her down, but then gets OT because she messes around and then can't settle?

Offline fellianne

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2013, 01:11:13 am »
She isn't teething or crawling yet.  She rolls a bunch and can sit unsupported for awhile.  We are working on solids and she is starting to enjoy them. 

Do you think I should have her afternoon A time be 3 hours, too?  I'm trying to get her to 3 hours in the AM.

Offline jessmum46

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Re: 7.5 month old will NOT settle for sleep
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2013, 12:26:07 pm »
Yes I would have thought she should be able to handle 3h and possibly more at her age. If she is messing around when you put her down, bump her A time 10-15 mins more and hold at the new time for a few days to give her time to get used to it.