10 month old NW & EW

[tweetie]

Hello here we are again   
just as a reminder 7.5 mo long NW 
We do have many things going on parallely and I would ask you for help.

1. Since the middle of the March we did not have long NW till now - already awake 3 hr  . However when we got rid of long NW we have had constant EW - around 5.40 am, 6.20 am the latest and nothing could extend sleeping. I am aware that teething has a big influence on that but I am also wondering should I extend first A time from 4 hr to 4.15? 

2. Our naps are pretty short - from 1.10 to 1.20 each in better times and 1.05 and 1.10 hr in worse. But BT is pretty late (no way before 7.30 pm)- day is 13 hr if not even longer; during night she sleeps 9-10 hr. Because of teething and developmental stuff I am holding her to fall a sleep - working on independent sleep is past tense  . Her EASY is: first A time 4 hr, second depending on the nap length 3.15-3.30 hr, the same with the last A time.

3. Last two weeks we are working on weaning feeding at 11 pm but she still wakes around that time regularly and crying. We arranged that I try to get her back to sleep - if it does not work then my DH takes her. Usually she would fall a sleep and wake again around 00.30 am or even 2.30 am, few times even 4 am and then I would feed. However today I fed after she was awake for 1.5 hr (she is still awake) because she did not eat for 5.5 hr. I am sure that this long NW is connected with that. I am not sure am I on the right way? Could you help me with your opinion please?

Thank you very much.

[becj86]

I think you're heading for this: 10/11 month old sleep gone wonky? Read this first! and you probably need to cap one nap, bring your day in to 13hr MAX. and get a bit more night sleep in. I know you'd probably prefer a shorter night after all the dramas you've had with night sleep but what you're doing at the moment is a recipe for chronic OT to develop.

To be brutally honest, if your night is 10hr or longer, she is not EWing It might be early in the morning but a 10hr+ night is not technically an EW.

Does she have a dummy? If so, does that help with NW's? Just wondering - definitely not time to introduce one but if there's already one in play...
DS often wakes thirsty - can you offer water at night? ie. can she drink from a cup sufficiently well, is she getting enough calories in her day.

[tweetie]

Thank you Bec

I think you're heading for this: 10/11 month old sleep gone wonky? Read this first! and you probably need to cap one nap, bring your day in to 13hr MAX. and get a bit more night sleep in. I know you'd probably prefer a shorter night after all the dramas you've had with night sleep but what you're doing at the moment is a recipe for chronic OT to develop.

I have read this so from tomorrow I plan to cut morning nap to 45 minutes, do you think is that ok?.
Our problem is that 13 hr day. How usually works - if she sleeps 1 hr in the morning she would fall a sleep after 3.15 hr - then pm nap could be 1.5 hr but after that there is no way that BT would be sooner than 3.5 hr A time. How to force her to sleep? Yesterday BT - it took me 2 hr and we ended up in my bed. I am worried that we will end in props with rocking and co sleeping. I am doing everything to make her sleep but not very successful - I have phobia from OT 

To be brutally honest, if your night is 10hr or longer, she is not EWing It might be early in the morning but a 10hr+ night is not technically an EW.

For example - she wakes around 6 am, BT 7 pm  (aiming 13 hr day) WU 5 am - not EW hmmm that means I am in trouble 

Does she have a dummy? If so, does that help with NW's? Just wondering - definitely not time to introduce one but if there's already one in play...
DS often wakes thirsty - can you offer water at night? ie. can she drink from a cup sufficiently well, is she getting enough calories in her day.

Yes and not interested at all - dummy with face, without face, just muslin, nothing. I am constantly putting it next to her, in her hand...I know we messed up lately - when DH was taking her in the night he would put her in bed with him till next feeding.
Maybe she is thirsty - I could give her sippy cup.
She had 5 BF/24 hr,
1. BF (night)
2. BF after WU
   breakfast (solids) (refusing BF between breakfast and lunch)
   lunch (solids)
3. BF after lunch (she had one more BF before BT, today we skip that one)
4. BF -  BT.

last few days she eats decent amounts of solids for lunch so today we removed one BF probably we will end up with 4 or if I would give her around 11 pm then 5. I am never sure about calories - finally she takes breakfast and lunch in ok amounts (around 130 g, recommended 190 g here) I noticed that whole afternoon she could be without food i.e. from 2 pm till 7 pm. When I offer between lunch and BT it does not make difference on waking around 11 pm.

Thank you very much I appreciate it.

Thank you very much.

[tweetie]

Last night I fed around midnight (she had just 4 BF during day, she really ate) and when I put her in crib she started to cry. Her tooth came out  . However we noticed new behaviour (last few nights): she is crying like a crazy and when I hold her or walk with her she calms down, completely awake - when I am trying to put her in the crib or even in bed with me she is crying very hard, screaming, kicking legs  I pass her to DH (we started that with weaning one feed 2.5 weeks ago) and leave the room - she is crying even harder, kicking with legs, screaming and looking for me - is that separation anxiety? It takes him pretty long to calm her down and of course he put her with him in bed (after great night  perfect reason for morning fight  ). She slept with him till morning. I am not sure what to do regarding this behaviour? I would not like she feels I am not with her, but last night it was very hard to carry her around - I became very stressed out after 1 hr of doing it and can not be good comfort for her (plus I had bad belly pain). Plus she was trying to stand yesterday... God help us 

[becj86]

Tips for seperation anxiety

She could be ill - ear infection or something meaning she doesn't like lying flat? DS did similar behaviour to this:

crying like a crazy and when I hold her or walk with her she calms down, completely awake - when I am trying to put her in the crib or even in bed with me she is crying very hard, screaming, kicking legs   I pass her to DH (we started that with weaning one feed 2.5 weeks ago) and leave the room - she is crying even harder, kicking with legs, screaming and looking for me

two nights straight just before it became obvious that he was sick.

from tomorrow I plan to cut morning nap to 45 minutes, do you think is that ok?.

Yes, I think that's a good plan. It should also help to discourage the waking early in the morning and extend the night a bit.

I'm a wimp when it comes to actively weaning night feeds - DH was doing the settling and DS screamed 3hr straight. DH finally begged me to feed him which defeated the whole purpose, so we've not tried again. They drop eventually...

she wakes around 6 am, BT 7 pm  (aiming 13 hr day) WU 5 am - not EW hmmm that means I am in trouble

Not EW, but not ideal if you see what I mean. I think once you cap that morning nap at 45min and settle her into the new routine, she should take a longer night.

[tweetie]

Thank you Bec I appreciate it.

For now I do not see any signs of illness but I will keep an eye on her. I am thinking whole morning about all this and I could say that she started to fight against sleeping and maybe crib during the day and now night too... She was not in the good mood and looked very tired  so I did not start today with waking her from am nap  . Now she is sleeping already 1.5 hr and I know how it will look like today but this is my fault...

I know - I was constantly against active weaning of NF but I got a hint when she started to skip that feeding around 11 pm lets say so 3 days in the row, then she would eat one or two nights then again she would skip... and usually when she would eat around 11 then she would wake regularly around 3 am ate and around 5 started to burp (no matter I burped her after eating) and was not hungry at 7 am etc etc... First ten days I or DH would give her paci and she would be fine or when I would pass her to him it would not take longer then 10 minutes to return her back to sleep. Her behaviour from Saturday to Sunday night make me to change opinion and I fed her yesterday. It is interesting that she did start to show (last few nights) intention she would like to fall a sleep with my breast in her mouth what did not happen in the past - I mean she would try (just sometimes, always preferred paci for sleeping) but when I would gently pull the nipple  out she would just open mouth for paci - now she does not let it go, then I let her then trying few more times gently (she is catching back  ) and give her paci. I feel sorry to do that but I do not want to create new bad habit.

From tomorrow we will start with the new routine and let you know how does that go.

[tweetie]

Just stop by to tell Bec that you were right! Night before last night she slept pretty decent (few short wakings), last night again 1.5 hr of crying - I heard a little bit and today morning it is clear - she started to cough - not bad, nose is clear but she is coughing from time to time.

Yesterday we started with schedule - morning nap 45 min, she was awake 3.15 hr, slept 1.30 hr, awake 3.40 hr - fought against sleeping, fell a sleep with rocking  . I am just not sure should I continue with new schedule or let her sleep because of this little coughing - for now she behaves normal and in the good mood.
Thank you

[becj86]

Sorry she's sick - hope she feels better soon.

I would probably keep on with the 45min capped morning nap and watch her - she may want to go to bed a bit earlier or sleep a bit later in the morning which I'd go with if she's crook but I think the signs are sufficient that she needs to shift to the capped morning nap regardless of the illness.

[tweetie]

Thank you Bec. I did cap the nap 

[tweetie]

Small update and one question 

Yesterday EASY:
WU 6.40 am
A 4.10 hr
S 45 min (cap)
A 3.11 hr
S 1.57 hr - I cap 
A 3.32 hr
BT 8.12 pm

BT - God that was painful - over 1 hr rocking, walking - when I  put her in the crib she was screaming (or stood up and screaming), in my arms without rocking screaming, refusing to sleep but she did look tired - whole day practicing to stand and try to make few steps - I did APOP because her day was closer to 14 hr  .

Night was great (hopefully I will not jinx it  )- for her, now I am getting cold and could not sleep from throat pain  - one waking at 1.35 am I fed, and she drifted  ; WU 6.20 am, she is coughing just from time to time - sound is pretty bad but she is in the good mood.

Question - pm nap- I did cap it in a fear she will not have enough A time to BT . I wanted to keep 13 hr day. Is it ok to cap pm nap or I should cap am nap in order to move pm nap earlier and on that way shift BT?

Thank you.

[becj86]

Yes, you would cap the morning nap shorter to decrease the A time between naps and bring BT earlier.

Ideally, you wouldn't cap the long nap (after all, you're leaving it a long nap to train LO to sleep a long nap for when you go to one nap) and never under 2hr.

Standing and walking are two milestones that really stuff sleep up too.

[tweetie]

Thank you very much Bec.
Today we will do the same as yesterday (she already slept 45 min) but from tomorrow I will cap am nap to 30 min  .

[tweetie]

I think we have a problem 

Yesterday after caping am nap to 45 min her pm nap was 30 minutes, no way she would sleep longer so I put her in bed "earlier" and she fell asleep at 6.12 pm (day was 12 hr). However she woke up after 45 minutes and there is no way she would go back to sleep. Finally after 2 hr (rocking, walking etc) she was in bed and WU was 6 am.

Today WU 6 am, A 4.10 hr, S 30 min - I cap it. A time was 3.10 hr but again she was fighting against the nap very much. She slept 1.5 hr, A time was 3.50 min BT 7 pm - again she fought and cried . Again - the same scenario - she slept 45 minutes and since then she is awake - already 1.45 hr and there is no sign she will go back to sleep.
It is true that she is sick - she is coughing and has runny nose but I do not think that is the main reason she fights against sleeping. Did I mess up somewhere? Thank you.

[becj86]

These:

S 30 min - I cap it. A time was 3.10 hr but again she was fighting against the nap very much.

her pm nap was 30 minutes

Again - the same scenario - she slept 45 minutes and since then she is awake

suggest she is overtired at the time you're putting her down. You probably need to decrease that middle A time substantially when you cap the nap in the morning. 3hr would be the max. I'd do after a 30min nap, and possibly a little less given her age - maybe 2:45.

[tweetie]

Thank you Bec. I will try to "make" her to sleep.