9.5mos, 4-6 NWings x night

[~inbalance~]

I'm so tired!  This is probably just a vent, I don't know if there's anything I can do really but I guess if anyone has any ideas it would be appreciated.  Prior to 6 mos DD slept very well (by my standards as I've never had babies who slept well).  She would have 2 NWings most nights, sometimes 3 and occasionally 1, but always did a good long stretch.  I always fed her at NWings with the intention of worrying about it later (what I did with my other two).  As soon as she started teething at 6 mos everything went downhill and has gotten worse and worse since.  She has been teething for pretty much 3 months straight now and still going (just about to cut tooth number 6) so I know our issues are pretty much teething related, but I'm so tired and I don't know how much more I can deal with these nights where she wakes every 1-2hrs.  We get the odd break, a few days decent sleep (2-3 NWings) but always back to this same stuff.  She is usually up by 6am too (which I can deal with).

I just don't know what to do.  Meds do nothing for her, they don't help at all.  For awhile I was just feeding her every single time, therefore thinking I had a prop issue as well.  But recently I've started settling her without a feed and that's not a problem.  So I've been feeding her twice out of the 5-6 times she's awake.  She wakes no matter what. 

My other kids' sleep improved a lot once they had their first 8 teeth in, but both of them had all those teeth by now.  DD is the slowest teether, it takes a long time for each one to come through and I can tell she doesn't handle it well at night (she is not usually bothered during the day and naps fine).  I will see the gums starting to swell and the tooth under the gums, but it will still take weeks for each tooth to come through.  So frustrating!

I don't know what to do anymore, I'm so tired.

[*Liz*]

How much nap time does she get??? My DD always woke more if she had too much nap time. At 6 mths she started doing 2 long naps a day and ended up with 100 night wakings  .

[~inbalance~]

I keep a close eye on day sleep.  I'm already thinking 2-1 and am planning on trying to be on one nap between 10-11 mos.  Her day looks like this:
6am wake
9:30-10:30 nap (this is as long as it gets, often I wake her after 30-45 mins because we are going somewhere)
1:30-3:30 nap (often it is only 1.5hrs, and I always wake her after 2hrs)
7:30 asleep
Realistically she is getting 2.5hrs naps during the day, sometimes a little more (ie if the am nap is an hour the pm nap is 1.5hrs, but if the am nap is 30 mins the pm nap is 2hrs).  It doesn't really matter how much she naps, the NWings are pretty consistent.  Last week when she was waking less she was actually napping more, but I am fairly certain that last week she had a GS.  What gets me down is that the good breaks we have are probably the 'phases' and the bad times are the 'norm'. 
I get comments from DH or my dad like I should not let her nap in the afternoon, or put her to bed way late.  That is not the solution in my mind.  I feel like if she were truly UT, we would have long NWings, which we don't.  She is always back asleep in 5 mins or less. 
I have to say she has always been an angel with routines, and the routine came naturally to us.  Sleep on the other hand she is spirited.  Never wants to go to sleep, throws huge fits when I take her to her room (but once in bed goes to sleep quickly).
I do suspect she is lower sleep needs though.

[jessmum46]

Just wondering how you are settling her at the NWs where you don't feed her?

[~inbalance~]

I pick her up until she stops crying (takes less than a minute) then put her back down, and keep a hand on her back until she settles.  It literally takes me a minute or two to settle her.

What I am thinking is that she wakes due to discomfort, rolls herself around until she gets uncomfortable or bangs the sides, then gets upset.  Every time I go in she is scrunched into a corner, usually on her back (she is a tummy sleeper) and obviously resettles once I put her back the way she likes (I can't just turn her over though, she gets upset, so I pick her up first).  It's frustrating, she doesn't seem to want to get herself comfortable again.  However I know she can do it.  That's why I think the teething discomfort kicks of the chain off events.  If she's not being woken by pain, she's more likely to settle herself.  Ho hum.

I'd like to think I have pretty good instincts by the third kid, so I'm fairly certain I'm not dealing with any prop issues here, especially considering for 6 mos she was a perfectly independent sleeper until teething kicked in.  Like I said for a bit I was thinking BFing was part of the problem, but again now my instinct is telling me no.

I'm fairly sure I know the problem, I'm just fed up!  Which is why I mentioned I'm not sure if anyone can actually help!  LOL  Feeling pretty stuck in this situation at the moment. 

[jessmum46]

(((Hugs))), I'm sorry if you thought I was questioning your judgement   that wasn't my intention at all - it's a question I would always ask anyone who posted about frequent NWs.  Can she ever resettle herself at any NWs at the moment?  I know she has been an independent sleeper in the past, but it isn't out of the realms of possibility she could now be looking for your presence to fall asleep again. I'm not there though and if you think that's not the issue then absolutely you know her best .

My only thought on the routine is that she has a pretty long day at 13.5h and I wonder if that could be causing some OT? My DD is fairly LSN or was at that age, but she wouldn't have coped with a day that long. Could you maybe try a capped am nap, slightly earlier pm and a shorter day of say 12.5/13h?

[*Liz*]

Routine wise have you noticed whether there is any difference between the better day sleep days and the ones where it all gets capped cos you are busy??

And how much day sleep is she getting now compared to when she had decent nights? That was the key with DD. At 3 months she would sleep a 45min am nap, then sleep from 12.30-2.30ish, maybe an extra 30 mins, then go to bed at 7pm after failing to have a CN. Then at 8 mths I had the idea that a 45-60 min am nap plus a 2.5 hrs pm nap was just fine yk?

DD was totally a prop baby, that retained independent sleep skills, but at the same time DH did manage to give her a lovely rock to sleep thing at 12 mths when he was in charge of NWings  . Ony took a day or so to break though as she was independent really. Had just come up with the idea that a cuddle was a fab idea  .

Oh, and FWIW, even with my ridiculous teething almost 3 year old ex tummy sleeper, she still does that whole 'I am on my back and wailing and will simply not turn over and sleep' thing!! So very annoying! It is like she is an insect on her back and can't turn over, if I get there fat enough I can turn her and pat her back a bit, but if it goes on for a few because I don't here her (ermmm, hello, sleep?!) then she just throws a complete strop and won't settle.

[~inbalance~]

I didn't take it the wrong way.  It's just, and hope no one takes this the wrong way, but I am waaayyyy past the whole every little minute of day sleep or every routine tweak makes a difference, kwim?  I'm also past thinking OT causes more NWings.  I do think she is low sleep needs and not OT that often really.  I will have her in bed by 7 if we've had a rough day, and occasionally she sleeps past 6 (this morning was 6:30).  We've always had a good routine, and I adjust it accordingly.  No, I can't say I notice a difference between how much day sleep she gets when it comes to the nights.  She can resettle on her own and still does occasionally.  I give her fair chance to try as she usually doesn't wake up wailing, but it does escalate if I don't go in.  She can complain off and on for an hour if I let her without screaming the house down.  I do agree she seems to need me to reposition her.  Such a pain as she should be able to just do it herself, but I think it's the added discomfort that makes her think she needs me.  Oh and she is a total drama queen.   

[~inbalance~]

Oh, and not wanting to sound ungrateful for the advice!  I tend to not ask anymore because I usually know what is going on, and this time I pretty much know as well but like I stated at the beginning I have probably posted partly to vent about it all! 

[katie80]

(((Hugs))), Em. We were in the exact same position a yr ago. DS got the last 6 of his first 8 teeth between 7-10mo. I felt like I was up and down all night. We did end up with a bit of a prop from me cuddling him and then laying him down, but it was easily fixed once he was done teething (well, apart for the early morning BF which didn't go til 16mo ). I think if your instinct is it's not a prop issue, then you're probably right, but time will tell and if she's an independent sleeper otherwise, it shouldn't be a big deal once the teeth are through. They're such a pain!

[jessmum46]

Dropping off some more (((hugs))) for today x

[*Liz*]

Megan is a drama queen if she wakes at night. Obviously she is SO much older, and sleep stuff is totally different, but she has responded far better to be being very firm with her  . For some reason the more I try and be nice the more she escalates  . It's very odd. I guess she is just responding to a clear 'NWing routine'.

(((hugs))) I am so close to posting about Ms NWings so often as well, but I don't as I know no one can help anyway.

M was rubbish (and very similar) at this age, and similar in teeth terms. I do hope your L isn't still slowly teething at almost 3  .

[~inbalance~]

Oh gosh I hope we are not dealing with teething at almost 3!! 

Thanks for letting me vent about it.  Last night went something like this:  NWings 9:30 and 10:20 (self settled), NFs at 11, 2 and 5 (I was too tired not to feed even though it's easy not to, I just want to sit in the chair ), up at 6:30.  So still 5 NWings but I consider that a good night.    I am just such a zombie in the motn, half the time I think I feed her without even knowing what I am doing.

[*Liz*]

 

How many teeth left until the first 8 are in???

[~inbalance~]

3 more.  And the top one that is currently causing trouble has been sitting under the gum all swollen for weeks.  Every morning I swear it will be there, and it's not.