5.5m, party in the middle of the night, every night, what do I do?

[weaser]

Hey ladies, looking for some help with NW with my DS.  He wakes every night for at least two hours.  Need some direction to figure out what I need to change.  I'll answer the questions first:

He is 5.5 months old,

Daily routine:
E 7am
A7:15-8:45am (tummy time, roll over time, sitting time, make breakfast, go on a walk)
S8:45-10:30

E10:45
A11-12:30 (usually when we do an errand or visit a friend)
S12:30-2:30

E2:45
A3:00-4:15 (stories and toys, tummy time, walk)
S4:15-5:00

A5:00-6:30 (bedtime routine is story, bath, message, PJ's, Milk, Prayers, Song, Bed...he goes down pretty easy)
E6:30
S7:00(bedtime)

DF 11:00


He is bottle fed with EBM, has about 5-7oz/feed, takes him maybe 10-15 min to finish.

He wakes about 3-6 times a night.

Most of his wakes are to get the paci back or to be readjusted because he sleeps propped on his side, if he slips forward or back he wants to be repositioned.  Those wakes he is up around 5 min.  But he will have a main wake somewhere between 1:30-3:00 where we feed him (at 3) and we rock him till his wiggles go away, put him back down, he is quiet for maybe 10 min, then he will just talk to himself for about an hour, then cry, need more rocking and loves, then fall asleep around 4 or 5. 

I try to wait to go get him till he starts a real fuss, try to prevent the cry because he takes longer to console if I wait that long.  Usually the montra cry is for the paci, but it turns into a real cry if I don't put in it soon enough.

To settle him I have tried PU/PD and shush/pat, I did that for about 3 weeks and burnt out, so now I will put the paci in, then reposition him, reswaddle him if his arms are out, and if that doesn't work I pick him up and rock him in the chair till he settles.  He actually settles fairly easy now, since the whole shush pat era, and goes to bed easy too.

Activity times we have are pretty low key, tummy time, practice  sitting in a box, play with his feet, watch me cook or clean or prepare his bottle, walks outside, and maybe once a day we will run an errand together.  I try to stretch his activity times to at least 2 hours, but he fights it, he is sleepy by around 1 hr 30 min. 

I don't think he is teething, he is not super interested in many toys or chewing on things, but he loves his hands and feet and people and outside and the bath and LOVES talking and screaming.

Haven't had any other food but my milk.

His prop is definitely the paci.

Doesn't have a lovey, sometimes he will squish blankets into his face, but he is still swaddled so he can't do that while sleeping (plus, when he is sleeping mode his hands go directly to his face).


So what do you all think?  Does anyone have advice on what I can do? 

TIA!
Charisse

[becj86]

I think his routine needs an overhaul: All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[weaser]

Thank you!

[weaser]

Sorry, I have some questions. Do I keep him awake longer even if he fusses? For example, currently he starts getting fussy with A being only 1.5 hr, I wind down then and get him asleep by 2 hr. So I just keep him awake 10 min longer every 2 days even if he is already fussy? When have I pushed him too far? Today we tried a shorter third nap and earlier bedtime, but he went down even later than usual and is still struggling to sleep, in fact, that is how nap 2 & 3 were today, but morning nap was good. So, with today, why did he have a harder time when I pushed him?

[becj86]

So I just keep him awake 10 min longer every 2 days even if he is already fussy?

Yes, basically because he is used to sleeping after a short time but he isn't tired enough to sleep a full restorative nap so OT builds up slowly. The longer you leave it, the worse the OT buildup will get and the worse the sleep will get. I'd do 10-15min extra every 3-4 days, just to give him time to settle into the new A time. You're heading for 2:45-3hr before your routine settles, I'd say.

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs. It's tough because they behave OT when sometimes they just are used to going down at the time YK?
We're stuck in this a little too. I know ds2 needs more A, but I'm scared!

So, holding your hand through this...I do agree with bec though Hun, gently push that first A time out 10-15 mins then hold. If you can, APOP a short nap. If you can't extend then the rest of the day will move forward a little.

I think capping the CN is a good idea. Maybe cap it at 30 to start with x

[weaser]

Thank you both for the support and advice. I am so grateful you are there and I am not alone. I was feeling so alone and helpless, like I had tried everything and there was nothing else I could do. I really appreciate a glimmer of light again.

 I will stretch out all of his A times (all of the A times, correct? Or one at a time?) and cap the CN and try to be patient again.

Thank you again xxx
 

[ZacsMumme]

Oh believe me Hun your not alone. So many people (including me!) have trouble it's this age

Do you know your LOs personality? If touchy/spirited I would do the increases more gently. I always increased the first A and if I could extend the nap, or he did a good one on his own I extended the next. Does that make sense?

The BW "Know Your Baby Quiz"

[weaser]

I think I understand, so if he sleeps well the first nap then you can extend the second activity time too, correct?

My LO is textbook/touchy. I will try the gradual approach. Good luck with training your LO too!

Last night was tough! I hope i started off ok and it was normal, could you let me know if we are on the right track?
He woke up late at 7:45(it keeps getting later, should I cap that too and wake him up at 7am?), I kept him up and put him to nap at 10. He woke at 11 so I just let him stay awake and put him down again at 1, extended his nap, then woke him up at 3:20. He then did not get tired again till about 6, but I took too long getting him ready for bed and he fought bedtime going down around 7:40. He slept till 10, then gave him the bink, had a DF at 10:45. He woke at 12, 1, 1:30, 2, 3:15, I fed him at 3:20, then he struggled till 4:45 when he finally fell asleep on me till I made him wake up at 7this morning. He just went down for a nap at 9:10.

So, is it normal for him to wake up so much at night when you are making this change? Should I insist on the CN around 5 so he doesn't get OT? And even if he wakes up at different times during the day, should I feed him when he wakes or wait till it has been 4hr?

[becj86]

had a DF at 10:45. He woke at 12, 1, 1:30, 2, 3:15,

This seems like pain - did you burp him after the dreamfeed? is he teething?; or the DF disrupted his sleep.

I would just have done a quick BT prep and put him in bed for the night at 6:30.

I would feed when he wakes to there's good predictability to his day. The naps will extend once you get to a good A time for him.

[weaser]

Wanted to give it a free days before I came back, here's what has been going on:
Burp him well after DF- no difference in waking
Put him to bed earlier-helped one night, hasn't worked the three after. He has now been waking up earlier, now at 6 instead of 7! Ah!
Tried Tylenol to help with possible teething last night he woke slightly less; 12, 3, 5, and 6.
For the pat two night only he hasn't stayed awake to play for two hours at 3-5 so that really is an improvement!

We are now awake 2 hr and 15-20 min and I feed him when he wakes no matter how long his naps are. He naps well the first nap, about 2 hr, second nap he gets in 1 hr maybe 1.5, then cat nap is a struggle. He wants to sleep so bad around 4:30, so I let him sleep till 5, but does that ruin his bedtime since he is not awake 2 hr 15 min before bed at 6-6:30? Or am I doing something else wrong?

How are we doing? Do you think it is the teething? Or could it be the catnap to close to bedtime? Am I on the right track or do I need more tweaking? Maybe just patience? ;-)

[becj86]

I think you may still need to extend your A times a little. What does his day look like now, with the 2:15-2:20 A times?

[weaser]

Really? I am just amazed at how things change so fast, I think I get it and then we change! Lol! Glad you can tell me what to change!

Here is his schedule now:

7 wake and eat
7:30-9:15 activity
9:20-11:00 nap
11 wake and eat
11:30-1:15 activity
1:20-3:10 nap
3:10 wake and eat
3:40-5:30 activity
(Or we have CN around 4:30 for 15 min if too tired)
5:45 eat
6:00 bed (or closer to 6:30-7 if he had CN)
9:30 stir for feed
10:30 DF
12  need paci/help
2 need paci/help
3 eat
4:30 need paci/help
5:30 need paci/help
6:00 or 7:00 wake and eat

So should I stretch him longer then?

Thanks!

[becj86]

Routine looks good.

Hmmm... what about other issues:
- hot/cold?
- pain?
- noise?

How are you doing the DF? Have you recently introduced it? It is meant to be done between 3 and 4 hours after LO goes to sleep for the night so as not to disturb his sleep. For some babies, that works. For some babies, the dreamfeed just doesn't work.