8 mo sleep issues

[bestsmilee]

Thanks, I know you're just trying to help.

I try to be consistent but I need to readjust his A times based on his previous S time and if he is super cranky or not.
Yesterday's EAS went like this. What do you think?

WU 6:15 (actually he had been up on/off since 5 something, it was hard to remember or pinpoint a real WU time)
E 6:45
A
E 8 solids
S 8:55-10:15
E 10:45
A
E 12 solids
S 1-2:15
E 2:45
A
E 4:30 solids
Bath 5:30
E 6
Fell asleep 6:20!
NW 1: 9:30 fed
NW 2: 10-11:30 on/off for that hour
NW 3: 2:30 fed
NW 4: 3:30-4:15 woke up from the thunderstorm but wasn't upset and was playing a while and fell asleep on his own
NW 5: 5:30
WU 7...


And what would you recommend if he woke up from his 2nd nap super early? How do you adjust BT? I've been doing early BT for months now and I'm not sure if I'm considering it an EBT now...just regular ol' BT.

[Erin M]

I've been doing early BT for months now and I'm not sure if I'm considering it an EBT now...just regular ol' BT.

This is entirely true -- it's not really considered an early bed time if you're doing it every night for months. 
Your way forward is going to have to be to stretch the first A time especially, though that's pretty hard to do with a WU that early.  With the on/off wakings too, that kind of messes with your A times as well -- you almost have to count from the time you get him up and add a little bit to see what kind of A time you're working with. 
Have I asked you -- have you had any luck getting him back to sleep when he wakes early around 5-something by any means?  Has he ever taken longer naps?  My ds didn't really ever take long naps until he went to 1 nap so naps of that length would be right for him -- but some babies need longer ones.  What's your sense on that one?  Does he need more daytime sleep? 

[bestsmilee]

Well - maybe yesterday's EAS will answer some of your questions.

WU E 7
A
E solids 8:45
A
S 9:10-10:50 (slept earlier bc of the NWs)
E 11
A
E solids 12:45
A
S 1:45-3
E 3
A
E solids 4:30
Bath 5:30
E 5:45
BT fell asleep around 6:40 (PD maybe 6:15?)

I thought he had a really good day as far as napping and expected a good night. What we ended up with was a screaming baby all. night. long. He hardly slept.

NWs started at 9:30 (fed him) went back to sleep and then up again at 10:30 and on and off the entire night. It was awful. I finally thought he had gone to sleep with no UT/OT issues. I could not find a source of discomfort. I am totally confused. And sometimes when we played a little of lullaby music he would calm down and play a bit before becoming hysterical again. He screams, then smiles, then screams. Aah. What is wrong! Why are his nights so awful??

[Erin M]

((((hugs)))) what a rough night!  I can't imagine what was bothering him, though I would think there would have to have been *something* going on in order for there to be that much screaming?  Is he generally happy during the day?  Waking up from his naps happy?  Ugh, I wish I could pinpoint a cause!

[bestsmilee]

Me too - tell me about it!! Generally during the day he is okay - he plays by himself for a good amount of time but ends up fussing sometimes. Since he is a Touchy baby - his temperament has always seemed to make him a bit fussy. He doesn't always wake from his naps happy. In fact, it's so confusing. I am watching him on the monitor and I see when he wakes and he will pop his head up and look around and then start crying I guess when he doesn't see me so I'll hurry on into the room and even when he does see me, he doesn't stop crying. I pick him up immediately anyway after his nap but that doesn't calm him down right away - I have to walk out of the room and start nursing him for him to be totally okay.

As you can imagine, after such a rough night we had a bit of a wonky schedule today with a 6am WU but he took 1 nap from 9:15-10:45 and another from 1:40-3:00 but when I put him down for bed at around 6 he became so super hyper (he was NOT hyper at all when I was nursing him - he kept whining and bobbing on and off) he would not sleep. I tried staying in the room longer and rubbing his back and trying to keep him in place but he kept flinging himself all over the crib. He was so super hyper. He ended up SCREAMING again by 7:45 and so I picked him up and that didn't even stop the screaming. So I had to nurse him to calm him down and he was seemingly asleep (or just sleepy) so I put him down and he started crying again. Eventually though he fell asleep a few minutes later. It was not until 8:15 that he fell asleep. This is the latest he has fallen asleep in months. This has thrown me off - especially after the previous 2 nights of getting him to bed at a decent time (in a decent amount of time too after PD). He woke up 45 minutes later and luckily fell back asleep quickly. I am dreading the night ahead of us - I don't know what to do about these NWs!!

I let a relative who is a physician (not a pediatrician) and a parent listen to his cries to see if it sounded normal or not. The relative said that it sounds normal to them and that I am not used to it because I never let DS cry.  That only made me feel better because at least they didn't think something was really wrong or bothering LO. It still didn't solve the issue though. We are so attentive to every cry and never leave him in distress - why is he so upset and unsettled? Nursing helps calm him down - but the second he gets off, it's not like he goes straight to sleep. Often he is awake for a while, if not crying.

[Erin M]

I'm sure I've asked this -- are you relatively low key during A times -- is overstimulation a possibility?
And are you in the middle of anything developmental right now? 

[bestsmilee]

I guess so - there isn't much that could overstimulate him as far as his A time. Last week, there was a day where he took a beautiful morning nap and then was happy when he woke up so I took advantage of the opportunity and did a few quick errands with him, coming back with enough time to WD before his nap. That outing for sure OS him because he did NOT want to nap after.

He's just starting to crawl. But to be honest, this has been going on so much longer than just now.

I went to the pediatrician yesterday because I started to worry about his screaming and to see if something was bothering him. Her conclusion was that he is super sensitive to the chronic teething and is feeling the pain from the teeth below the gums. It seems that no matter how perfect our A times are, this will always be a problem.

[Erin M]

Ugh, that's no fun.  We've had some moms on here who have LOs who are miserable teethers -- maybe you could start a post on Health, Medical, etc and see if you can get any ideas from there?  I can't remember who they are off the top of my head, but I could definitely find you some if you start a topic there.  What do you think of that?

[bestsmilee]

That's a great idea - I'll head over there now to post.

Any quick advice on how to wind down LO for BT? He had a great day yesterday as far as moods and naps were concerned but when it was time for BT he was all wired again. We did a feed, his 2 books, 3 songs and even that doesn't seem to make him sleepy for bed. He gets so playful and was up for an hour and a half really hyper in his crib. Cute, sure. I get such anxiety each passing minute he doesn't fall asleep though. Guess it's my fear of him being super OT and inconsolable.

[Erin M]

Do you do a bath at night -- or some nights?  Do you find it makes a difference?  You could try darkening the room or doing lower lights before bed to calm him down more.  Maybe rocking him would calm him down some?  Can you pinpoint anything that's getting him excited? 

[bestsmilee]

The only night he really doesn't get a bath is Saturday night. I'm not sure it makes much of a difference. For the past month or so, whenever he has gotten out of the tub and into pajamas he starts to cry and get really upset. This used to not be an issue. And he's always been pretty happy in the tub but this past Friday and a bit on Sunday he was upset so I cut the bath short. Hope it doesn't happen tonight too.

The bedroom faces west and is pretty bright at BT so we had covered the window with paper but I'm wondering if we should do another layer to make it even darker (since it gets darker later and later now). We don't put on any lights after bath. We go into the room, where it's dimmer but you can definitely see what you're doing, but need the lamp to read him his books. I'll try rocking him, that's an idea, but the rocking chair is in the other room - but I'll give it a go. He starts getting excited the second really I put him down on the bed to get him in his diaper and into PJs he rolls over immediately and tries to get away. He starts crying really when I start putting the diaper cream on and trying to keep him still. After the whole dressing scene, he calms down when he nurses - I found that when he falls asleep nursing he will be wide awake when he is done so I try to keep him up. (The same is true though even if he doesn't fall asleep. The ONE time that he slept from 10:30-7, I had nursed him to sleep and put him down and he actually stayed asleep. I tried that a few times when he's fallen asleep nursing, but he will wake up the second I put him down and start crying.) He really likes his sleepy time books - I try not to elongate the stories - I read through it quickly and put them away because he gets excited when he sees them. (I've also done some nights without the books). The songs don't seem to wind him down enough either. If I hold him too long before bed he starts to squirm away and so I'll put him in his crib and continue singing. He also moves everywhere in his crib - so when he's not playing with his stuffed animals - he will crawl to the other end of the crib and start looking around and down and everywhere and getting excited. Does he think it's play time? I've been doing this same routine for almost 4 months and at the beginning he used to fall asleep easily. I guess it's now that he's become more aware and more mobile that he's just too excited to sleep?

[Erin M]

The mobility could definitely be playing a big part in his difficulties settling.  Lots of times when they start to get mobile, they do lots of practicing at first.  I assume he's getting lots and lots of floor time during the day to practice his new skills?

If he's getting upset in his room, I wonder if you might try getting his pajamas/diaper on in a different place for a few days just to break his cycle of being upset?  You could spread a towel out on your bed or on the floor somewhere else. 

What's in his crib right now? 

[bestsmilee]

The mobility could definitely be playing a big part in his difficulties settling.  Lots of times when they start to get mobile, they do lots of practicing at first.  I assume he's getting lots and lots of floor time during the day to practice his new skills?

Yes. But my DH and I always joke that he's more hyper at BT than he is during the day. He can play in his crib for hours it seems, while when he's on the floor (surrounded by tons and tons of toys) he gets whiny pretty quickly.

If he's getting upset in his room, I wonder if you might try getting his pajamas/diaper on in a different place for a few days just to break his cycle of being upset?  You could spread a towel out on your bed or on the floor somewhere else. 

Right now we've been doing it on our bed - it seems like the safest place since he rolls away really fast - it's really hard to dress and change him! He's so wiggly! I'll try the floor though and see if that will work.


All that's in his crib now are 3 stuffed animals.

[Erin M]

Hmm, I'm going to ask around and see about him being hyper at BT. 
Once mine got wiggly, I changed them on the floor most of the time -- it just was better for me, not having to worry about them rolling off the changing table all the time.

[Erin M]

Asked around a little bit and the consensus was that being hyper at bed time was most often connected to being overtired or overstimulated.  It seems like he's a really tricky one to get that last A time right -- there's another poster right now who has been having the same exact issue -- every time LO gets to the point of shifting schedule/dropping a nap, she goes through a run of NWings while she tweaks that last A time until she finds the right one.