8 mo sleep issues

[ZacsMumme]

Those A times may need a bump looking at your last EAS (fri)
Also, it's a crazy time, teeth and developmentally. We have pulling up and trying to walk and I swear our rotten NW and pants pm nap is all related to this.

I do agree with Katie though, it may be a prop. I can't advise on props ATM because we are arms deep in them

[bestsmilee]

I'm going to bump up his first A time to 3 hr 5 min and see how it goes. Right now before his 2nd nap (if he takes one), I aim for 3 hr 5 min already so maybe I'll start 3 hr 10 min soon.

Last night was *pretty* good. Not great, but good. He went to sleep at 6:40 (after not taking an afternoon nap, well, a short one while nursing). Then had a NW at 10pm and that's where I did his last feeding. I think he woke up somewhere around 12:40am? (Not really sure.) But I just whispered "go back to sleep" (no touching!) and he went back easily (yay!) I don't think he got up again until 5:45am and then he wouldn't go back to sleep. Fed him at 6:10.

For the past 5 nights or so I haven't fed him at all in the MOTN!! That's pretty good, I'm thinking. I'm not so convinced he is going to have another good night tonight. He doesn't really have 2 good nights in a row, but I'm definitely hoping for one. Hopefully the bumped up A time will help today...

[katie80]

That sounds like a decent night to me.  Yay for settling with only your voice and dropping the feeds, that's great!   Hopefully, with a few more days of that and a more conisistent EASY, he'll start having more and more better nights.

I would even start pushing up to 3h15m to ensure that good pm nap.  At 9mo, I'd say average A is closer to 3.5hr, so he's still a bit below (which is fine, but I think 3h15 would get you better and more consistent naps).

[bestsmilee]

I would even start pushing up to 3h15m to ensure that good pm nap.  At 9mo, I'd say average A is closer to 3.5hr, so he's still a bit below (which is fine, but I think 3h15 would get you better and more consistent naps).

Eh, so this morning he took a 2 hour nap after 3 hr 10 min A time. Then he wouldn't take his afternoon nap after 3 hr 15 min and he started crying 15 minutes after I put him down and knew it was a lost cause so I took him out and I'm feeding him now. How do you figure that he had a pretty good night of sleep after not really having a PM nap...was that the cause of the 5:45am WU?

[katie80]

Eh, so this morning he took a 2 hour nap after 3 hr 10 min A time.

Great!

Then he wouldn't take his afternoon nap after 3 hr 15 min and he started crying 15 minutes after I put him down and knew it was a lost cause so I took him out and I'm feeding him now.

My guess is that after a 2hr morning nap, he likely needed more than 3h15min A.  This sounds UT to me.  Can you not go in there and try to settle him when he starts crying?

How do you figure that he had a pretty good night of sleep after not really having a PM nap...was that the cause of the 5:45am WU?

Not sure I understand this question... sorry!

[bestsmilee]

My guess is that after a 2hr morning nap, he likely needed more than 3h15min A.  This sounds UT to me.  Can you not go in there and try to settle him when he starts crying?

Ah, ok so I would probably feed him before the start of his second nap if his A time his over 3 hr 10 min? What should his A time have been?

Quote from: bestsmilee on Today at 19:35:57
How do you figure that he had a pretty good night of sleep after not really having a PM nap...was that the cause of the 5:45am WU?
Not sure I understand this question... sorry!

Sorry...I was just wondering how he had a good (well, decent) night's sleep without his afternoon nap. Or was the EW a possible result from that?

[katie80]

My guess is that after a 2hr morning nap, he likely needed more than 3h15min A.  This sounds UT to me.  Can you not go in there and try to settle him when he starts crying?

Ah, ok so I would probably feed him before the start of his second nap if his A time his over 3 hr 10 min? What should his A time have been?

Yes, feeding before the second nap is pretty common at this age.  Then, you can give solids after and get a good milk feed in before bed.  As for A time, probably around 3h20-3h30.

[I was just wondering how he had a good (well, decent) night's sleep without his afternoon nap. Or was the EW a possible result from that?

Well, it wasn't technically an EW as he still had 11hr night sleep, but my guess is that he was maybe just tired enough to sleep through or he's getting better at settling with your voice and not being fed.  It's hard to know after just one night. I do think all of this (missed pm nap, good night, added A time in the morning, good am nap) is pointing to him needing more A time during the day, so I think you're on the right track with pushing the A times longer.

Keep us posted!

[bestsmilee]

What's going on now???

1. We upped his A time to 3 hr 10-15 minutes. If he doesn't protest and goes down right away, he has been waking after 30-40 minutes! He hasn't done that since he was just a couple months old. What's going on here?? And I can't get him back to sleep.

2. It's been recommended that I feed DS at the 3 hr mark so he can get a good nap in. However, I've noticed that he isn't really hungry after 3 hours and won't take in a lot. Should I continue this feeding even though he isn't very hungry?

3. LO is still waking up a bit earlier than we would like. He did *pretty* well last night, and that was after a 30 min AM nap and then he fell asleep in the car as we were rushing home to his PM nap and he slept for 10 minutes, woke up and didn't end up taking an afternoon nap after that at all.

[katie80]

1. We upped his A time to 3 hr 10-15 minutes. If he doesn't protest and goes down right away, he has been waking after 30-40 minutes! He hasn't done that since he was just a couple months old. What's going on here?? And I can't get him back to sleep.

Sounds like either UT, teeth, or developmental.  You mentioned he was starting to pull up to stand last week... is that having an impact on what happens when you put him in the crib?  Do you think he's teething at all? (Sorry, I'm sure this has been asked repeatedly, I just can't always remember. )

2. It's been recommended that I feed DS at the 3 hr mark so he can get a good nap in. However, I've noticed that he isn't really hungry after 3 hours and won't take in a lot. Should I continue this feeding even though he isn't very hungry?

What does your feeding routine/EAS look like?  Is he taking solids well?  This is kind of a hard age for fitting in feeds here and there, but if he's not hungry when you try to feed him, I don't think he'd wake from a nap due to hunger.

(((Hugs))), he's sure not making things easy on you, but I promise one day this will all be a distant memory.

[bestsmilee]

Sounds like either UT, teeth, or developmental.  You mentioned he was starting to pull up to stand last week... is that having an impact on what happens when you put him in the crib?  Do you think he's teething at all? (Sorry, I'm sure this has been asked repeatedly, I just can't always remember. )

He's still not cutting any teeth. I keep on checking too. He doesn't try to stand up in the crib unless he is really really upset. I don't understand how he could be suddenly UT when his A time last week was 3 hrs and now it's bumped up and before he napped 1 hr 20 min to 2 hrs and now its 30-40 minutes?!

What does your feeding routine/EAS look like?  Is he taking solids well?  This is kind of a hard age for fitting in feeds here and there, but if he's not hungry when you try to feed him, I don't think he'd wake from a nap due to hunger

I feel like it's possible he's done better with a feeding after 4-5.5 hr as opposed to 3 hr intervals. But I get scared because he's really little for his age and I don't want to deprive him of feedings. He takes in solids well. Not sure which route to go.

[katie80]

I don't understand how he could be suddenly UT when his A time last week was 3 hrs and now it's bumped up and before he napped 1 hr 20 min to 2 hrs and now its 30-40 minutes?!

Well, it's probably not then, but typically when a LO doesn't resettle, you want to take UT into consideration.  It might be a bit of OT from the upped A times, but you didn't go up by too much so he should settle in pretty quick, I would think. 

I feel like it's possible he's done better with a feeding after 4-5.5 hr as opposed to 3 hr intervals. But I get scared because he's really little for his age and I don't want to deprive him of feedings. He takes in solids well. Not sure which route to go.

If he does better with milk feeds 4-5.5hr apart, then I'd go with that.  Technically, if he's taking solids 1hr after a milk feed he's not having to wait a full 4-5hr in between feeds anyway, so he probably is fine.  You might try a few different options and see what works best for you.

[bestsmilee]

Any idea how to tackle 5am EW??

[katie80]

It depends on what the cause is.  Is he in discomfort from teeth?  Is it an OT/UT issue from his routine?  Is he hungry?  Is there a prop issue?  Those are all reasons for an EW.  Here's a really good link on EWs: Early Waking. Have a read through and let us know if anytng sticks out to you.  If the EW is not driven by a need, i.e. hunger, routine, teeth, I'd try wake-to-sleep first to get rid of it.  How do I address habitual wakings?  (wake-to-sleep and other methods)

(((Hugs))), I've BTDT with both kids, and it's tough!

[bestsmilee]

If anything stuck out to me, it was possibly hunger since he wasn't eating since 10:30pm. So when he woke up today at 4:30 (he did this yesterday too but was able to get him to sleep until 5 something without eating) I fed him for 5 minutes and he managed to sleep 2 hours more. But he had fallen asleep after 8pm and woke up 6:30 with 4 NWs. Still no teeth...

[katie80]

I don't think it's unreasonable at his age to have another NF after the DF, if it's early in the morning like that, especially if he's not eating all that much for solids.  How are your days going?  If you'd like to post the last few EASYs, we'd be happy to take a look.