Night wakings and sleeping in

[Sjbc1019]

My LO just got her first 2 teeth and we were also traveling the last couple of weeks.  I am not sure if the more frequent night wakings are due to any of those reasons or what is going on.  She is 5 1/2 months and has been taking 30-40 min naps.  I have extended her awake and it hasn't helped yet.  I suspect the night wakings are due to being overtired by bedtime.  I do cut the activity time if she short naps but it doesn't seem to help.  I also extended activity due to advice from moderator because she wakes happy after short nap and chills in crib.  I am still trying to figure out exact awake time.

Anyhow, she has had multiple wakings and does some stretches that are only 1-2 hours long!  We do shush pat and feed if it has been over 3 hours.  The last couple of nights she has been awake like she wants to play.  I feed her and put her in the crib.  She hangs out and will fall asleep usually within 30-40 mins(after 20 mins of feed) meaning she is up for an hour.  She will also have another 35-45 min awake when we shush pat because we give her some time to cry and see if she can go back to sleep.  With all the broken sleep she has been sleeping in.  She usually wakes for day around 6:30 and the last two nights has slept until 7:15 and today 8. 

When she sleeps u til 8 should we put her to bed 12 hours later at 8pm when normal bedtime is 7?  Does putting her to bed after only 11 hours awake effect her sleep?  Lately since her naps are so short and she seems so tired we are putting her to bed at 6-6:30 usually 11-12 hours of daytime.  It's earlier than we want but with her naps we would have to do a fourth nap and put her to bed at 8 or so.

Please help- it has gotten so bad!  She usually has awake time of 2hrs40-3hrs10.  I cut back activity to around 2hrs10-15 when she short naps.

Thanks

[Erin M]

I suspect you're probably heading towards dropping the third nap (in the midst of all your other craziness!) -- if she's sleeping a little later from being up at night, can you get her to be on only two naps?  If she's still taking 3 naps, at her age, we'd probably expect more like an 11 hour night, once you get to 2 you would probably be back to something like a 12 hour night.  With the night wakings, you're doing what you need to in pushing your A times when you can.  While it's hard to push through, it does lead to a better night's sleep.  There's some info on the 3-2 transition here: All about the 3-2 transition- 5/6 months

[Sjbc1019]

Thanks- her naps are only 30-35 minutes long so it would be hard to do 2 naps.  Or should I be extending activity even more?  Have tried 3 hours and it produced less than 30 minute nap.  A few times she has had 18-25 minute naps but generally wakes up just chilling in crib.  Is this usually undertired or overtired?

[Erin M]

The shorter (30 minute) naps are usually overtired naps. but this:

generally wakes up just chilling in crib.

makes me think she could be undertired and it might be worth pushing A times.  Do you see any difference in nap length depending on how her A time has been?  It could also be overstimulation, but if she's still waking the same even when your A time is low key, I would guess undertired. 

[Sjbc1019]

I ave tried a few days at 2hrs45-3hrs and she is very fussy and crying during routine.  It also takes her longer to fall asleep or I might have to shush pat because she is so worked up.  I assume it is because of overtired?  This week I have been doing 2hrs24-35 and it has been 30 minute naps, taking less than 5 mins to fall asleep and minimal crying.  Because of the short 1st nap I have been putting her down at 1hr45-2hr for other naps which is when she has been showing sleepy signs and she has been going down great but napping only 40 minutes.  If I am to keep her up longer during the day does it help that I am only keeping her up longer for first nap?  Should I be trying to keep her up longer for other naps even if she always short naps?

Thanks

[Erin M]

If I am to keep her up longer during the day does it help that I am only keeping her up longer for first nap?  Should I be trying to keep her up longer for other naps even if she always short naps?

I think you're doing it exactly as you should.  If she short naps the first nap, then you should cut the A time before the second nap. 
You might need to extend your A time even more slowly, just about 5 minutes every few days.  How is she waking from those 30 minute naps?

[Sjbc1019]

Hi Erin

We are keeping her up close to 3 hrs and her naps are going better- 1st nap 1hr15 min, 2nd nap 55 mins.  I think she could use a tiny bit more awake time but I have been trying to do the awake time gradually.  Do those times seem like undertired naps?

My other question is that the last two nights she has gone down well and transition to new sleep cycle.  Last night she woke after 1 hr40 mins crying.  I fed her but it was a strange time to wake (9:30).  Tonight she slept for 1 hr 22 mins then woke up crying.  We tried pick up put down with shush pat for 45 mins and she was crying/screaming at times.  At first we would speak softly to her (I'm here, etc) and she calmed but once you put her down she screamed/cried.  I finally fed her after 45 mins and put her down when she pulled off nursing a couple of times.  I put her in crib crying but she did fall asleep less than 5 mins after I put her down. Do you have any idea why she is waking so soon after being up?  We started a new night routine so she wouldn't nurse to bed so have lights on in nursery during most of the routine except the final 5 minutes.  Could she think it was a nap?  She also was put to bed after only 11 hrs up (woke at 7:30 and sleeping by 6:35)- could that have anything to do with it?  Any advice is appreciated.  I feel like we are slowly getting it but the night thing is troubling.  Thanks

[Sjbc1019]

After taking an hour she fell asleep at 9 and then woke at 12.  I just fed even though I knew she was probably not hungry.  Fell asleep during feeding then woke at 4 (31/2 hours later).  We did shush at for 45 mins gain then finally fed her.  She really cries and doesn't seem tired.  When I finally nursed her she did fall asleep.  I guess she is using nursing now as a prop since we keep feeding her when she wakes?  She gets so angry and really cries.  Any idea why all the wakings?  I read about people just being able to pat them to sleep or put their pacy in- not her.  She is awake.

The other question is since she was up for over 2 hours during the night she has been sleeping in.  Today she slept until 7:40.  With the 2 naps she typically goes to bed around 6/6:30 due to timing of naps (hoping for longer naps so we don't have to put to at 6).  If she wakes at 7:40 and we put her to bed at 6-6:30 does that effect her sleep since her day is a bit short?  Do we just need to keep her up and make bedtime a little later to ensure she gets 12 hour day?

Thanks so much

[Erin M]

Hi hun, sorry to have been missing there for a few days -- lots of family in town and no time for the computer!
If you wouldn't mind, could you write out what your routine has looked like for the past day or so like this:
E
A
S
and so on - that way I can get a really clear picture of what's going on. 
Stretching A time slowly is generally the best way to do it -- with those early evening wakings, she might be getting a little overtired (or just settling into a new routine) so slow and steady is the way to go.

[Sjbc1019]

Hi

The schedule for the last couple of days below

Tuesday
6:50 wake
E-7:30
A-7:40-9:55
S-9:55-10:38
A-10:38-12
E-12-12:15
S-12:11-12:40(fell asleep while nursing)
A-12:40-3:47
S-3:47-4:17
E-4:20-4:35
A-4:35-6:48
E-6:48-7:04
S-7:05-7:29 woke crying a lot, tried shush pat,  looking around a lot, then turned on light and quietly played until she went to sleep quietly on her own at 8:53

Wed

Awake 8:28
E-8:40-8:55
A-8:55-11:37
S-11:37-12:09
E-12:20-12:33
A-12:33-2:36
S-2:36-3:09
E-3:37-3:52
A-3:52-5:42
E-5:42-5:53
A(quiet play before bed)- 5:53-6:28

She has been waking from every nap quietly chilling in crib entertaining herself and just laying.  I let her hang out usually at least 15 minutes unless I think she might go to sleep.

When putting her down for the first nap she has been getting a little fussy and does a moaning type tired cry but she goes to sleep within a few minutes with no crying.  We were just doing about 3 hours last week and she was taking 50-1hr20 min naps (long for her).  I was trying to keep her up close to 3 hrs and watching sleepy cues.  Doing the same and she is showing sleepy cues after 3 hours.  I can't tell if she is overtired or undertired.  She wakes quietly and chills but her naps are all under 35 minutes.

We have been trying a new routine at night so she does not nurse to sleep and we found that sometimes she would fall asleep while nursing but we were not sure she was tired or nursing coma as she would wake after 30-1 hr crying.  This also allows us to see her sleepy cues and so far at night it seems she can go awhile before getting sleepy.  The nights generally have gone better as she does not cry when put down.

Any. Help is appreciated.  I don't know if I should go back to 3 hrs awake regardless of her sleepy cues as when I did her naps seemed longer but she still wakes happy.  Last night after nursing at 2:30 she was awake chilling in crib for about 20-30 mins until she fell asleep.

[Erin M]

Her A times are on the high side, but you're right, she does sound like she might need a little bit more.  That being said, I'm thinking you're right -- that you should clock watch and work on 3 hours A time for a few days and see if that helps your naps.  You might also find that her A times are inconsistent during the day -- that she might need a longer A time first thing in the morning and a shorter one right before bed (or the other way around, mine always liked their longest A before bed). 

Any possibility of discomfort from something like teeth?