Author Topic: 8 mo - long early night waking  (Read 8932 times)

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Offline lily_layne

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8 mo - long early night waking
« on: April 27, 2013, 15:10:03 pm »
For the last few weeks, DD has been waking up 30 min after she goes to sleep almost every night (unless she rolls around for an hour before she drifts off - then she stays asleep ::)).  At first, she would cry out quickly and go right back to sleep. She stopped self-settling after MIL watched her one night and went in and rocked her as soon as she cried out (no idea if this is a coincidence or if it really did undo our hard work :-\). Now she cries out quickly, rolls around, cries out again, rolls some more, and on it goes until she goes to sleep (anywhere from 30 to 90 min).  If it's a very short cry, we don't go in.  As soon as the crying gets intense we go in and try patting or stroking her back.  She usually cries for a minute or 2 while I pat and then settles with the occasional head movement.  On the good days she goes to sleep.  On the bad days, she'll settle and seem to be sleeping and then start rolling around.  We usually leave her once she starts making large movements.  On occasion, we have tried rocking her to sleep which usually doesn't work.  Sometimes she goes back to sleep on her own and sometimes with DH or I patting her back.  Some nights the patting and stroking really seems to work and other nights it seems to interfere and make it worse. I end up totally confused about what to do and it seems like every night I do the wrong thing.

I'm fairly certain that she's OT by BT and that's the cause of the ENW.  We are working on that with an earlier BT.  In the meantime, I need help with a plan for dealing with this.  Am I correct in thinking that our inconsistency (sometimes rocking her, sometimes picking her up, lack of persistence with patting) is part of the problem? 

I would appreciate any advice or help to come up with a plan for how to deal with this tonight.  After her first "I need you cry" should I keep patting until she's in a deep sleep or just until she's calm?  Or is it time to try PU/PD or W2S?

The good news is that once she's asleep after the ENW, she STTN so I at least am fairly well-rested (although still very frustrated) by BT.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2013, 08:56:17 am »
Hmmm..  What's her day looking like?  I agree that she might be OT at bt hence the waking after 30 min but I'm also thinking its developmental.  Is she trying to crawl during the day?  I'm wondering if she just practicing? 

Wrt what to do, def pick one method for soothing.  I'm all for not picking her up if you can and try to settle in the crib (but I guess that also depends on how upset she is).  You can roll her over if shes on her tummy and she normally sleeps on her back.  If patting/ rubbing her back works most of the time, then use that. I agree at this age, you can be interfering with SS so if this is what you sense, then just stand back for a minute or 2 and see if she can calm herself.  If she doesn't calm herself then try rubbing again until she relaxes.  If you can, just pat or rub until she's drowsy and she if she will take it from there.

I don't know if W2S will work since she's waking so soon after bt.  I usually prefer patting or rubbing to Pu/Pd, unless your Lo is used to it.  hTH

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2013, 16:26:15 pm »
I've been wondering if it's developmental also.  My friend's LO who is a day younger has been doing the same thing.  She has been working very hard a crawling for a while now - she hasn't quite caught on yet.

The first part of last night was better and it went downhill from there.  I could tell that she was really restless and probably OT so I patted her until she was asleep and we didn't get the 30 m wake up :) But then she woke up at 10:40 (DH patted her), 3 (self-settled), and 4 (I patted her).

Our day yesterday was:
WU: 6:40 - She played on her own until 7:10
S: 9:30-11
S: 2-3:30 - She cried out and self-settled at 2:30
BT: Started at 7:20 and asleep at 7:40

That's a fairly typical day.  After a lot of messing around, I've found that the am nap is best at 9:30/9:45 and I think the magic time for a good pm nap is around 2 even if it's a short A time.  If I go for a longer A time, she almost always short naps - I think it's something to do with her biological clock that doesn't let her sleep much past 3.  She's often taking a long nap (2h or more) in the am and I think that's because she's not well rested from going to bed too late.

Any suggestions about when we should do BT?

We've never done PU/PD so I think we'll stick with the patting.  Until we're past the OT, would it make sense to pat her to sleep so she goes to sleep sooner and then once she's well rested just pat until drowsy?
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2013, 20:59:59 pm »
So today so far has been:
WU: 7:45 (I woke her)
S: 9:45-11:30
S: 2-2:45

So much for the "magic" time of 2 pm for getting a good nap :( I'm starting to feel like no matter what time I put her down in the pm, she only sleeps for 40-45 minutes. It seems she only takes a longer pm nap every 2-3 days and I think it's this short pm nap that's causing the ENW.

What BT should we aim for today? 
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2013, 21:09:43 pm »
Sorry i couldnt post earlier...  so here's my response to both of yours.

 Ok, so today's 2nd nap wasn't the greatest.  I'm finding that with my dd, I'm get lots of 45 min naps too  :-\ so I'm deciding to put her down a bit later (between 2:30 and 2:45) and if she sleeps 45 min, then she can usually hang on until bt and if she sleeps longer (on the weekend) then that's great (during the week I have to wake her at 3:30 for the school run).  May be try increasing her second A just a bit (15 min) and see how she does.

Quote (selected)
Any suggestions about when we should do BT?
I'm thinking that if she gets two decent naps then try for bt between 6:30 and 7 pm.  Are you able to get her down earlier than that?

I also agree with patting until asleep while she's OT and then gradually withdraw it so she's self settling.

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2013, 01:17:34 am »
Thanks for your quick response - I've been stressing myself out way too much about this and it helps to have another opinion!  DH doesn't get EBT (he always thinks the answer is to keep DD up longer) but he totally accepted it today when I told him it wasn't my idea ;)  He's in charge of bathing so even when I say I want to put her down early it hardly ever happens because he takes so long.

We started our wind down at 6:45 and DD was falling asleep while nursing which she hardly ever does.  She was out cold by 6:50.  My fingers are crossed that she stays asleep.  It seems that it's the nights she drops off quickly that she's up and unsettled 30 min later.  We've haven't had her asleep this early before - if she does wake up around 5/5:30 should I treat it as a NW?

45 min naps are a pain.  I'd be happy with even an hour.  It was a UT nap for sure - she was happy for about 2 hours and then was alternating between whiny and hyper.  I think a big part of our problem is BT (we usually aim for asleep by 8) - I didn't really move it much earlier when we dropped the 3rd nap.  The long morning naps are making me think she's not totally rested when she wakes up and those long naps put a wrench in the whole day by pushing the pm nap too late causing a short nap and OT by BT and on it goes...  I'm thinking that an earlier BT and capping the long am nap should help, does that make any sense ???

What time do you usually do BT?
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2013, 01:46:22 am »
She cried out quickly at 40 min, rolled around for 10 min and now she's asleep (although tossing and turning lots) ;D

I just had to post this little bit of progress so I remember it tomorrow if the rest of the night goes south!
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2013, 02:09:49 am »
 ;D  yay for self settling!

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We've haven't had her asleep this early before - if she does wake up around 5/5:30 should I treat it as a NW?
I would. for me anything before 6 am is a nw and I'll feed her and just put her back in her crib. Pretty much every time she will go back to sleep. 

Quote (selected)
I'm thinking that an earlier BT and capping the long am nap should help, does that make any sense ???
Bringing her BT forward makes a lot of sense.  WRT to capping naps, personally I don't cap my DD's am nap but I usually end up waking her for the school run.  I think it's worth a try for a few days to see if you can even out the naps across the day as well as bring her BT forward a bit so she's not OT.

Quote (selected)
What time do you usually do BT?
  I try to get DD down between 7 and 7:30 although it does depend on when she wakes from her pm nap. 

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2013, 02:34:15 am »
Hugs honey.
All I want to say is YK all about our rubbish NW ;) and the long ones all started when T was trying to crawl. Damn babies too excited to sleep ::) :-* so I'm just her for support xx
***Sara***
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DS1 - Our sensitive soul. Silent reflux.

DS2 Our cheeky chipmunk. Reflux, MSPI.

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2013, 16:43:52 pm »
Thanks for the hugs, Sara. :-*

So EBT was a huge success!  DD slept until 7 this morning.  I thought I heard her playing at 4, but it was just birds outside (spring is finally starting to come :))  I can't thank you enough PM for giving me the courage to go for it (even though it's not all that early, it's early for us).  I think with the effort to crawl she's burning so much energy that she needs shorter A times and I was just slow on the uptake, winding up with OT. 

In a perfect world, our day would go like this:
WU: 7
S: 9:30-11
S: 2-3/3:30
What time do you ladies think would be a good BT?  Should we be aiming for around 7, give or take a bit depending on naps?  I'm fairly certain now that 7:45/8 was too late.  I'm thinking that since there was an OT wake up with a 7 pm BT on a day with a short nap, it should work well on days with good naps but my brain is fried from thinking about this way too much so I appreciate any opinions you have to offer.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2013, 17:56:30 pm »
Yay!  I'm glad the early bt worked!  ;D

Wrt bt, I aim for 7 plus minus 30 min depending on naps, etc.  for my dd, I rarely get her down before 7 but there are nights that I try to.

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2013, 02:14:15 am »
Another short pm nap so I had a very crabby girl on my hands from 5 until BT ::)  It took some patting but she was asleep by 7 with a quick cry and ss at 7:40.  If tomorrow goes the same, I know I need to put aside my fears of an EW and get her to bed even earlier.

DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2013, 07:44:24 am »
If she does wake early, do you think that if you feed her, she will go back to sleep?  I do this with my dd however it does mess a little with the 4 hr feeding.  I usually end up doing a slightly later first feed.

Offline lily_layne

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2013, 15:50:21 pm »
She STTN again last night :) but was up a bit earlier than usual (6:20) and wasn't content to play in her crib so I got her at 6:40.  She was pretty crabby so I put her down a bit early for her am nap.  Next time, should I try putting her right back down after she eats if she's up a bit early and is crabby?  I didn't treat it as an EW because it wasn't that much earlier than usual. 
Our routine has always been ok (at least 1 good nap and 1 shorter nap per day) but I think she's gotten OT from the late BT and trying to stretch A times and it seems she's trying to catch up now because her A times are getting shorter.  I'm hoping we get back on track soon.
DD - August 2012
DS - November 2014

Offline PaulsMom

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Re: 8 mo - long early night waking
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2013, 18:46:26 pm »
If I get an ew (or earlier than my liking) I will feed and put her back down.  I figure if she's up, then I'll just have to deal with it but there's a chance she will sleep so I usually go for it. 

I think a lot of Los at this age start to have one long and one shorter nap kinda in preparation for the 2-1 transition.  Doing an EBT can minimize the OT while you slowly increase the a times again.