8 mo - long early night waking

[ZacsMumme]

So maybe keep the last A e se ad push theirst a touch? Hugs
PM what do you think?

[PaulsMom]

Hugs.

I would agree to increase the a earlier in the day but try to keep the last a consistent and if possible bt around 7 pm.  Given that she's waking around 6 am, I wouldn't want to push her bt much later.

[lily_layne]

After doing some reading, I think part of the problem with her short pm naps is that I've been putting her down too late for her biological clock so she didn't have the drive to sleep.  Keeping that in mind, I've been working on set-ish nap times more than A times.  The nap routine that seems to be working (fingers crossed that I don't jinx this ) is:

AM Nap: 9:15/9:30 (about 2h30 from when I get her up - I don't count the time playing on her own) - usually about 1h30.  I did used to have it later (around 9:45) but that messed up the pm nap.
PM Nap: 1:45/2:10 (about 3 h) - has been lengthening the last few days, usually ending around 3:30

Her A time total has been about 9 h not counting the time awake before I get her in the am.  I also think that I can't expect more than 11 hours from her at night - with the very odd exception, it's been ages since she's done a 12 hour night.  Her WU used to be closer to 7, so in a perfect world, I'd have her asleep by 7:30 and up at 6:30.

Sunday night was terrible and she slept to 7:30 on Monday am and I put her down at 9:15 anyway and she still had a good nap so I think these times are working.

I've found after a lot of tweaking that if the am nap ends later than 11, the pm nap ends up being too late and we don't get a good one.  However, this could all be coincidence since I've read that naps in post-colicky babies tend to lengthen as they get closer to 9 months so maybe we've just hit this stage.

Today was 6 am start but she played quietly on her own until 6:50.  The 10 hour night makes me think she was OT but really ask me again in 10 minutes and I'll probably have a different answer Although she was happy and did fine until 9:20 she obviously wasn't rested from the night because I had to wake her at 11:20.  I put her down for the pm nap at 2:10 and she's still down at 3 and I was expecting a short nap after such a long am one.  If anyone happens to read this right away, what time should I wake her at to preserve BT?

So...all of that long-winded explanation brings me to my point:
I totally trust you ladies that an A increase might be needed but I am unsure of how to do it without messing up naps and she's been so much happier with 2 good naps.  I'm also very nervous because by pushing A times a few weeks ago, I got her into a total mess   If I increase the morning A time, should I then cap the nap to preserve the pm nap?  Should I push the A time even with these earlier wake-ups in the hopes that it will get her sleeping a bit later in the am?

The last A has changed since her pm nap got longer.  With the shorter naps, it was 4 or 4h30 and now its between 3 and 4 depending on how long it takes her to go to sleep.  What A should I aim for?

[ZacsMumme]

Go with your gut Hun, you know her best.  I guess if you get good naps and she is happier with them and a short night that may be what works. My first needed good long naps and only did 10.5 hr nights till the 2-1 but it is what worked for him YK?

I agree WI pm, you don't want the day longer than 13 hrs

[lily_layne]

The 2 good naps a day thing is new.  A long pm nap has usually only happened about half the time.  I'm wondering if she's making up for lost night sleep during the day.  She seems happiest on 14 hours of sleep so I'm thinking 3 hrs of naps and 11 hrs at night should work but it all works in theory, right?   The length of her am nap (she'll do 2h30 if I don't cap it) when she does a 10-10.5 hr night makes me think she needs more than that at night but if I we don't get 11 hour nights back, I'll just roll with this.

[PaulsMom]

I'll just roll with this.

  Agree  .  I think that some babies do better on set naps whereas others not.  My DD I think is like this.  She can nap until 5:30 pm and still want to go to bed by 7:30 whereas my DS would have protested ALOT! 

By increasing A times, I would only increase by 10 to 15 min so at the moment, your set nap times will still work.  See how that goes and then hold for a while as some developmental thing always happens. 

[lily_layne]

Last night DD got a fever so we had a long NW and she's still feverish so all bets are off today.  Last night, I ended up nursing her for the first time in almost a month - she was just so warm and nothing else was working.  Today she's only slept an hour and it's already 3   I just spent an hour rocking her after she woke up screaming from a half hour nap and she would settle for a few minutes and then wake up screaming again.  Should I throw in a catnap if I can or just try a SEBT of 5:30 and hope for the best?

[PaulsMom]

oh poor thing!  If this was me, I'd consider a CN (I hope i'm not too late in posting).  Either way, when they are sick, I usually just try to follow their lead rather than trying to keep to A times and routine, etc.  FX that tonight goes alright.

[lily_layne]

I did go for a CN - got 15 minutes before she woke up screaming.  Yesterday evening was miserable but then she STTN.  She did only get about 9.5 hours last night though (only 11 hours sleep all of yesterday!) and she still has a bit of a fever today, so should I just let her sleep as long as she wants today?

[PaulsMom]

That's what I do.  I figure if they are sick and have a fever, if they need to sleep, i let them.  I go back to the usual routine when they can do some normal activities. 

[lily_layne]

Thanks for your quick reply but I didn't need it.  She woke up after only an hour   She woke up quietly and is still playing on her own so it seemed like a UT nap although I don't know how that can be possible after a day and night like yesterday.  I really hope its the teeth and fever wreaking havoc otherwise I have no idea what's going on   Hopefully this afternoon will be a better nap.  I'm going to try not to look at the clock and just put her down when she starts giving tired signs.

[PaulsMom]

I really hope its the teeth and fever wreaking havoc

  boo for the short nap.  Unfortunately both teeth and illness will create chaos.  Better to go with the flow at times like these.  Hoping you got a decent pm nap.

[lily_layne]

She did 1.5 h for a pm nap so not too bad - not enough to catch up on lost sleep but there were no OT cry outs so I'll take it.  We had a small victory at BT today.  Last night DH and I talked and we agreed that we (mostly me) rush in too much in the name of getting her to sleep faster.  So tonight, I mentally prepared myself for it to take a while for her fall asleep.  I put her down at 6:15, put the video monitor in another room and only checked it every 15 min, and she fell asleep on her own sometime after 7 and there was no 30 min wake up   She still has a fever though so hopefully she has a good night's sleep - she needs it.

The last 2 days she was up at 6 again and I thought for sure she might sleep a bit longer because the one night she had a long NW with nursing and she was so tired last night.  She's never been one to wake up at exactly the same time every day until now.  Would W2S be worth a shot to see if I can get back the extra 30/45 min she used to do?

[PaulsMom]

Yeah for a better bt.  It's good that she self settled.
W2S at 6 am....  Hmmm.  You could try it.  The only thing that I'd worry about is that it is technically morning and biologically she may wake up rather than sleep.  I've read that we tend to sleep lighter in the morning.  I take it you already have blackout blinds in her room?

[lily_layne]

She was up at 6 again this morning but she rolled around a bit and went back to sleep at 6:20 and slept until 7:30!  This makes me think this 6 am thing is more habitual than hunger or her being ready for the day but I am worried about the W2S backfiring because it's so close to morning.  If this keeps up, I might take the risk because I just don't think she's rested enough when she's up at 6.

She's still feverish today but I can feel the edge of a tooth today so hopefully she'll be feeling better soon.  She had a great nap this am on a short A so will see how the pm nap goes. I have no idea when to do BT given that she slept in - I think I'll just follow her cues.

I take it you already have blackout blinds in her room?

We do have blackout blinds and they're pretty good but they don't darken her room totally.  I'm contemplating putting up tinfoil but DH doesn't want to because he's worried about what the neighbours will think.